Deamon Wolf Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi All I posted this in the GK Forum but think it also has relevance here So I used to use Kaldor Dragio as my HQ with the new dex and all the changes I find it difficult to write any bound list that would benifit from having Kaldor Dragio in it instead of another dreadknight this is also hampered by the fact that he is nolonger an HQ but a Lord of War Choice now yes I know that we are all allowed to write unbound lists and that would be fine its just I find it feels wrong to do that. so toget back on to topic would you say making Kaldor Dragio , Logan Grimnar and Gazkull Thrakka lords of war has nerfed them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yup pretty much. You can no longer field them as your mandatory HQ choice and being a lord of War does not confer any benefits. It also means that your warlord will be more squishy than before. So easier points for your opponent Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Don't know about Draigo and frankly I do not care about him. As far as I can see they buffed him since his sword is AP2 now and he knows Gate of Infinity in addition to the regular GK stuff, which is great. He still has a lot of utility. But as far as Grimnar is concerned I find that LoW is better at representing his status. Only problem is that many tournaments do not allow LoW. As far as the nerfs are concerned, Grimnar has been reduced to a beating stick that is being outperformed by a mounted Wolf Lord, since he lost all of his force multipliers that made him so great. And Stormrider is bad because Grimnar wants to be in melee and the opponent can decide to attack the chariot in melee. AV12 with a 4++ isn't exactly hard to kill. In short, won't use him. I have better alternatives on my juicy Thunderwolfs. Yummy :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Kravin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yup pretty much. You can no longer field them as your mandatory HQ choice and being a lord of War does not confer any benefits. It also means that your warlord will be more squishy than before. So easier points for your opponent I always take a second HQ choice with Grimnar since Rune Priests and Wolf Priests are so good so no problem there. They can still be your Warlord as 7th Ed doesn't require that your Warlord be your HQ choice, they just have to be a character. If a tournament forbids LoW that is a nuisance but from Friendly games it hopefully won't be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ah forgot about the non-HQ warlords. Still I think putting infantry models in the LoW category is unnecessary. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ah forgot about the non-HQ warlords. Still I think putting infantry models in the LoW category is unnecessary. Definately, i think a lord of war should be a super heavy. Or have primarch-nearing abilities. The problem for me is that GW seem to have gone down a 'every codex MUST have a lord of war' route, which means either creating a new super heavy model for each army, giving them an existing super heavy, or upping an existing character to LoW. When the existing characters fluff is that they are pretty nails...but definately not primarch nails...then it doesn't really work for me when it comes to existing infantry....would have been much happier for them to have a 'can take a fellblade' route. Grimnar has been reduced to a beating stick that is being outperformed by a mounted Wolf Lord, since he lost all of his force multipliers that made him so great. Is there not a formation you can run him in that gives him those force multipliers back?? (was in same thing as the useless ragnar formation was it not?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeMrBadger Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What made Logan such a force multiplier was all the saga's he had, essentially giving relentless, preferred enemy, LD boosting or such depending on what the situation merited. Now he's just a close combat guy, and apart from a LD10 on a unit he joins (if on foot) he doesn't o anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I mean, even Draigo is superior because he has Gate to port around, has a 3++, is cheaper and has some flavour-y anti Daemon skills. I can see fielding him being a lot of fun. Unfortunately, Grimnar is not fun to field and the sled of doom joke is getting old as well. Personally, I am much more likely to include a converted Draigo in my list to jump around with WG or GK TDA than to include Grimnar. I have a few very fun TWC characters with utility and flavour. They do just fine for me ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I really dig the Grimnar + Storm Rider sculpt and am painting one just to have one on display (because he looks nails next to my Deathwolf cavalry). But the actual rules are not worth it at all. I expect this to change over time, but for the next couple years, it is what it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It sadenss me as well that Logan was placed far away. He is still decent on foot, I have yet to run him on the sled. But I have to echo the thought of him just not being fit as a LoW. He is not powerful enough. I ran him in a couple games with a th/ss pack. He died easier than I would expect him to. Oh well, he is the leader. That can't change and I will continue to field him when appropriate. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3822942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 The only affect, in 'regular' games of 40k, is that now you have to have an actual HQ choice (i.e. some other character), in addition to the LoW to have a valid Detachment of whatever kind you're intending to use (e.g. Wolves Unleashed, Champions of Fenris, Combined Arms, etc.). If you were already planning on bringing a support character, such as a Rune Priest or Wolf Priest, then the designation of Logan (or Draigo, or any other) will have zero impact. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichfaust Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Ah forgot about the non-HQ warlords. Still I think putting infantry models in the LoW category is unnecessary. Definately, i think a lord of war should be a super heavy. Or have primarch-nearing abilities. The problem for me is that GW seem to have gone down a 'every codex MUST have a lord of war' route, ...Except for the new DEldar codex! I'm firmly in the anti-LoW camp where infantry models are concerned, especially considering Logan (sled excluded) and Ghaz aren't even that much better than they were in their previous codices. Mephiston with his T6/W5 is probably the only Astartes infantry character that is truly deserving of the spot thus far. I'd much rather have seen Bjorn gotten the LoW designation, along with a buffed statline to match (4 HP, IWND, I4, etc...). Keep the superheavy slot for vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAWARIS1 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 also if you want to look at the LoW slot, what would you rather take, Logan or an Imp knight who seems to make all my friends wet their pants Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 also if you want to look at the LoW slot, what would you rather take, Logan or an Imp knight who seems to make all my friends wet their pants fellblade please :D Also, for running logan, the sanctus reach part 2 book has a formation that gives him back the 'choose pref enemy/relentless etc' rule. However the formation is 2 landraiders, 2 packs of wolf guard, and logan (dont think it says you have to take the sled). They also all get the WS5 rule. Not a bad formation to run in a larger game. Logan on foot is no worse than he used to be in combat with this formation (in fact, he has one extra wound). But as this formation is going to be easily 1000+ points once the wolf guard are kitted out...oof. as immerstum said..if you are going for an uber effective close combat character, a kitted out TW.Lord is probably going to suit you better. And Stormrider is bad because Grimnar wants to be in melee and the opponent can decide to attack the chariot in melee. AV12 with a 4++ isn't exactly hard to kill. What happens when the chariot dies? Can grimnar not just get out and continue on foot? (not up to date on chariot rules). AV12 is still going to need some sort of special weapon for regular infantry to deal with surely? Is there not a good chance that grimnar can challenge out or just turn a unit to pulp before it get to hit with that weapon? (sure he'll suffer against say a daemon prince, but then he did before haha!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oz of the North Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If the chariot dies, then Logan Grimnar dies, he cannot get out. They are treated as the same model in new rules, and in combat they can choose to hit, but when shooting, you choose which is being hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If the chariot dies, then Logan Grimnar dies, he cannot get out. They are treated as the same model in new rules, and in combat they can choose to hit, but when shooting, you choose which is being hit. Of course he goes down when the chariot blows up. Are you accusing our honored and glorious Wolf King of being a coward? A captain always goes down with the ship. Even if it sleighs him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Even if it sleighs him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yup, the santa sled is a bad thing in my mind. I just want to buy the logan on foot model, just to have Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Gw logic dictates that even if you have feet of your own in the 41st millenium, you cant dismount from any chariot, just like that big mean monster that flies way up in the air can sudenly duck behind that tiny whiny rock on the ground. And look out sirs against sniper rifles with silencers modeled on them (yes look at all scout snipers, all have silencers). Like wise Nid Gargoyles cant fly up to a plane and get stuck in there engines making it crash before it can do anything, i guess the hivemind isnt as smart as GW makes it out to be. Must be a warp thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I mean I never played before 7th, but wasn't in 6th edition and before if anyone besides your faction could not enter the transport, even if it was reasonable to do so?"C'mon let's go go go, This raven is lifting off in 7.""Hup""Hup""Hup""Hup""AYE! Not you Grey Knight!""what why!?""Zero,""Huh?"*sound of Grey Knight being kicked out of the storm raven* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3823807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
viddar Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Even if it sleighs him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yup, the santa sled is a bad thing in my mind. I just want to buy the logan on foot model, just to have Yeah me too. I'm leaning towards buying the kit converting the wolves to TWC, the ship into objective markers, and putting the shields on some models. That said I really don't want to encourage GW to make kits like that lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3824018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 also if you want to look at the LoW slot, what would you rather take, Logan or an Imp knight who seems to make all my friends wet their pants Imperial Knights aren't in a LoW slot, they are simply chosen as an Imperial Knight Detachment of their own, so you could take both, if you wish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3824054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think the FW knights all say they can be a Lords of War choice for any Imperial Faction army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297454-is-lord-of-war-a-nerf/#findComment-3824067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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