GK allied detachment

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey there lads!

I am currently building my assault-based SW army, which is basically only Cavalry and Beasts. However, I ran out of FA slots and I still have 500-ish points to go.

So I was looking into Grey Knights. I generally dislike allies because I do not like depending on 2 separate books, however I always kind of wanted to make a small GK force so this opportunity presented itself. So here we go.

Two particular units caught my interest:

The GK Librarian, which is pretty damn good value. ML3 for Divination or Telepathy in TDA for comparatively few points sounds like a steal to me, and he gives excellent psychic support to my units.

The second one in the Dreadknight (big shock, I know). With the reduced cost of the Teleporter he can keep up with the TWC and actually act as a vanguard. With a very respectable 2+/4++ (when boosted) he will either eat a lot of bullets that were meant for the TWC or he gets to assault, which is always nice. I was thinking to get him Heavy Incinerator and the Heavy Psycannon for horde control, seeing as TWC are very susceptible to being tar-pitted.

As my mandatory Troops choice I was considering TDA. They can either deploy with Librarian, or they deep strike. With massed SB and PsyC fire then can also thin out hordes and with good Divination rolls they can get Perfect Timing to deal with jinking vehicles that I can not get in melee.

This is what my list would amount to:

Harald Deathwolf
• 2 Hounds

Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds
Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds

Iron Priest
• TWM
• 3 Cyber Hounds

4 TWC

• 2 SS, Powerfist
4 TWC
• 2 SS, Powerfist

4 TWC
• 2 SS, Pair of Wolf Claws

GK Librarian

• TDA, Nemesis Power Weapon

• ML3

5 GK Terminators

• Psycannon

• Justicar with Falchions

Nemesis Dreadknight

• Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter

1850 points.

Very fast and very choppy. High pressure is the name of the game. I went for assault because TWC are one of the best assault units in the game and because melee ignores a lot of things like Serpent Shields, Jink, Quantum Shields and other things like that, which are very dominant in today's meta.

Priests ride with the TWC to add a 2+ body and ablative wounds with the dogs. They can also split up and go tank busting. Harald gives all beasts and TWC furious charge, Stubborn and Ld10.

My questions to you guys are

1) Does my GK unit choice make sense in context of the list?

2) Do you think there are other GK units that this list could benefit from? (preferably without compromising the existing SW part much)

If you have any other GK related tips and tricks, I am all ears.

Cheers for any input and have some ale

[Gentlemanloser]

You can take a SW list without needing Grey Hunters / Elites?

Nice! I might consider something like this myself.

As for the GK questions, you could look at sticking some GK in a SW Drop Pod for guaranteed first turn DS.

Edit: I see... I assumed Iron Priests didn't take a FoC slot. But they are Elite, so can be the mandatory two units required for the Company of the Great Wolf.

Nice.

This has me thinking. :)

If only I could convert up some Cyber/robotic horses. Mounted Knights!

[Frater Cornelius]

You can take a SW list without needing Grey Hunters / Elites?

Nice! I might consider something like this myself.

As for the GK questions, you could look at sticking some GK in a SW Drop Pod for guaranteed first turn DS.

Edit: I see... I assumed Iron Priests didn't take a FoC slot. But they are Elite, so can be the mandatory two units required for the Company of the Great Wolf.

Nice.

This has me thinking.

If only I could convert up some Cyber/robotic horses. Mounted Knights!

Well, my friend, I just started my own TWC conversion and painting log. It is still fresh because it takes a while to get those conversion up and running. You are welcome to take a look for inspiration

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297145-the-wild-hunt-begins-immersturms-cavalry-wip-thread/

As for drop pod. That would be real nice to have guaranteed TDA turn 1. However, there is two problems. 1) The Librarian wouldn't fit into the pod with 5 TDA and 2) I have no FA slots left for a pod. Otherwise I'd abuse the hell out of it, no questions asked

Well, I could drop 1 TWC unit and stick 5 GK TDA or 10 Purifiers in there. I just do not think that advantage is worth one whole TWC unit in the long run. It would compromise too much of the existing TWC base. 10 Purifiers with PsyC are what, 300+ points?

[Brom MKIV]

It would probably cost you an iron priest but I'd take the nemesis strike force detachment (only 1 troop) reduce the GKTs to strikers and fit in a 2nd dreadknight. That would really be the capstone to this army. The strikers aren't as good a bodyguard but honestly if someone wants 5 termies dead their gonna die anyway. Better to get a second DK. I would also try to squeeze the liber daemonica to make your chances really high of rolling either cleansing flame, vortex of doom or even both. Deep striking this unit in while the cav surge and the knights shunt will cause huge target priority issues.

[Gentlemanloser]

Your Wodin is amazing! How did you model sleipnir?

And I thought about a 'heretical' GK mounted force using Juggers!

seconding Brom! Plus stick them in a Drop Pod. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Your Wodin is amazing! How did you model sleipnir?

And I thought about a 'heretical' GK mounted force using Juggers!

Thanks I used Archaon, the Evenchosen, hacked off various body parts, attached SW shield and a suitable polearm (Gungnir reference), made a half helmet by taking the lower part of an SW head and the upper part of an MKIII helmet with some random DA wings that I found in my box. The extra pair of legs came of a spare Chaos Knight horse. The armour plates are Tyranid Warrior pieces and the rest is half a ton of liquid and solid Green Stuff. Simple really

I really like the Juggers for my Priests. They are Heavy Metal and represent the Priests affinity to metal and also keep to the general theme of mounted assault. They also bring some diversity in there.

Anyway, back on topic.

It would probably cost you an iron priest but I'd take the nemesis strike force detachment (only 1 troop) reduce the GKTs to strikers and fit in a 2nd dreadknight. That would really be the capstone to this army. The strikers aren't as good a bodyguard but honestly if someone wants 5 termies dead their gonna die anyway. Better to get a second DK. I would also try to squeeze the liber daemonica to make your chances really high of rolling either cleansing flame, vortex of doom or even both. Deep striking this unit in while the cav surge and the knights shunt will cause huge target priority issues.

I also thought about the idea of adding a Nemesis Detachment in addition to my COF. A second NDK makes me drool. However, most tournament only allow an allied detachment in addition to your main one. So I NDK will have to do until it either gets more acceptance or I find a tournament where you can take 2 detachments.

Edit: I just double checked. The majority only allows an allied detachment on top of your main. There are those that allow 2 full detachments, but those are few and far between. At some point I will get myself a second NDK for those cases, but it shouldn't be something to build upon.

[Gentlemanloser]

And my rant about the community and it's exclusive nature is justified!

 

/sigh

 

There is *nothing* wrong with running two (or more) detachments.  And allied Detachment is a type of detachment.  And in no way should we be limiting ourselves to a Primary (of any type you want!) and an Allied Detachment as all we can use.

 

/grumble

 

(I wish I had those sort of converting skills!  Back in the day I was looking at Bretonian Knights I think.  Didn't consider Chaos...  Damn!)

[Frater Cornelius]

And my rant about the community and it's exclusive nature is justified!

/sigh

There is *nothing* wrong with running two (or more) detachments. And allied Detachment is a type of detachment. And in no way should we be limiting ourselves to a Primary (of any type you want!) and an Allied Detachment as all we can use.

/grumble

(I wish I had those sort of converting skills! Back in the day I was looking at Bretonian Knights I think. Didn't consider Chaos... Damn!)

My community has nothing to do with it. If the tournament rules state that only 1 primary + 1 allied detachment are allowed, then it is that way. No point in arguing. I just checked T3 and 90% of tournaments in Germany only allow an allied detachment. Since I am planning to attend many of them (mainly in northern Germany and of cause the GTs), the only thing matters is what the TO allows, not what we think should be allows (or for that matter, what the rule book says).

Please let us focus on what we have to work with instead of turning this into a community bashing thread

[Brom MKIV]

Its similar to TOs over ruling the difficult terrain limitation on imperial knights and then wondering why people think they're OP'd. Don't change the core rules on a whim or theres fallout.

 

Hmmm on your list and in that light I think your choice is about as good as your going to get, although there is a case for 10 strikes 2 incinerators. Also on that note I'd want a hvy incinerator on the DK. You will want at least 1 torrent weapon in there somewhere.

Either way my point on the liber daemonica stands. Its the best way to get an alpha strike out of the libby and doesn't prohibit him from taking telepathy if you need to invis that knight or some wolves.

 

Edit- I think GLs statement and my own were in general btw not targetted at your community. Also sorry I missed the hvy incin the first glance.. disregard that part.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, there's not much leeway if you're limited to an Allied Detachment.

 

It doesn't really fit the theme, but possibly the only other unit I might suggest would be squeezing in a Grey Knight Storm Raven from the allied Fast slot.

 

Make the Allied detachment something like;

 

HQ: Libby, Relic, PML3 (150 odd)

Troop: Strike x5, Psycannon (125)

Fast: Stormraven (200 odd)

Heavy: NDK, PT, HI, H Psy (215)

 

So you're looking at around 690 points from your Allied Detachment.

 

 

Edit- I think GLs statement and my own were in general btw not targetted at your community.

 

Oh totally.  It was just an echo of my post in the "something wrong" thread. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

I am definitely going to consider getting a second NDK when I finish converting* my first one. So I guess I could ask the TO directly and make a case that the rule book does not forbid multiple detachments, or simply handing in the list and hold it against him if he approves it first but questions it later. If not, then I am stuck with 1 NDK. When I am allowed to put a Nemesis detachment there, great!

*I am planning to make them Wolfy. The TDA and Librarian are Elder Druids (full of germanic and celtic symbols and doing wobbly majicks). Not sure what the NDK will be, maybe just a wolfy construct? A Jötunn? Or possibly a giant armoured beast! Suggestions always welcome

As for the other suggestions, I had a look at the Liber Relic. Damn, me gusta. This helps with Hammerhand and especially the NDK with Sanctuary. Gotta find 25 points somewhere, but it will totally be worth it. Probably in the SW part. I do not think I want to switch from TDA to PA. That thing really is good though. The versatility is just insane

Edit: maybe I just drop the pair of Wolf Claws on the third TWC unit. They wound on 2s most of the time anyway because of S5 and Furious Charge so that +1 Strength and Shred is not very relevant. Against an MC the Fist and Hammer do a better job since they wound on 2s all the way through. AP3 is cute, but the mass of attacks coming your way will kill most MEQ and it still has rending. Does not help with TEQ anyway.

I guess it is a fair trade-off for the Liber of Awesomeness :D gawd, I love that relic.

The Stormraven.. nah. If I wanted a heavy flyer I would take the Stormwolf or Stormfang, both of which I consider superior in the ways I would use them (AA and MC hunting).

The only FA I would consider are Interceptors, since they can shunt and fry any given unit. Not sure it is worth an Iron Priest though. It's 5 S10 AP1 attacks were talking about, dammit Oo and dogs. I like dogs

[Brom MKIV]

The reasons I brought up strikes is that your list is pretty compact. It lacks units and the strikes bring that plus flexibility over the terminators.

For example, you could combat squad and DS both units (with battle focus if NSF) and fry something or just cap an objective. Or leave half in reserve and start the others on board, for whatever reason.

They also bring twice the stormbolters and hvy weapons of the termies and your list lacks ranged presence. Lastly if you did roll gate of infinity which is very likely then you could keep the squad together and teleport around frying stuff and potentially dropping cleansing flame etc. They also pack the same number of force weapon attacks as termies too. Just for comparisons..

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, I wouldn't take Interceptors over a Thunderwolf for this list.

For theme, the Wild Hunt was also connected to the Celts and Anglo-Saxon (who worshiped Woden) British. You could look to Cernunnos and Herne the Hunter for inspiration.

But a Jotunn might be cool as well.

[Frater Cornelius]

SWEET MOTHER OF THE GOLDEN THRONE ABOVE!! I feel so embarrassed that I did not think of Cernunnos! Even more so because Hircine is my favourite Daedric Lord (from Elder Scrolls) and Kurnous my favourite Eldar god, both of which are heavily inspired by Cernunnos.

I really enjoy the mythos behind this guy and he fits the thematic of the Wild Hunt amazingly well.

 

I planned to give the Librarian Druid dude a skull helmet with antlers. This is a very nice reference.

But most importantly, I know how I will make my NDK.

It will be a psychic construct summoned by the Elder Druids at their holy grove (in one of the biospheres aboard the main ship, they are a fleet based 'lost' company) and it will be a big monster with a skull helmet and horns (reference to Cernunnos, the horned god).

 

Damn, this is turning out really productive in here :D

 

As for the Strikes. I see your reason. They bring decent ranged support and flexibility.

I have 3 issues with it:

 

1) They are not relentless and are thus limited to Incinerators in order to function at peak efficiency. This requires in very specific positioning. I could run them without heavy weapons, but without psychic ammo the SB spam isn't as good anymore (still decent though, it will annoy MCs when used with Misfortune).

 

2) My current 5 TDA cost 189 with their setup. 10 Strikes cost 200. There is also a Justicar tax, isn't there. I do not think that compromising the TWC is an assault-based list is such a good idea.

 

3) TDA look freaking cool! Even more so if you consider that I field an army entirely consisting of specialized marines. No regular PA. Only Cav, TDA, Beasts and MC.

 

For those reason I will initially try TDA and see how they will do.