Donkalleone Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hi, I love Arjac (Modell) and he is mostly the core of my Army. In most of my Builds he is with the Formation meaning i have 5 TH/SS Termis + Arjac in a LR Crus. While this Formation gives them some nice Bonuses to Units like Hammer of Wrath, WS+1 , Toughness +1, 2+/3++ and in CC a Str8/ap2 hitback if a 6 is rolled on a save, i have some concerns. I interpret this unit as an Tank/Monsterhunter Unit that is bit tougher and im using the LR to hunt LR. Now i will list a few drawbacks and my Question is...are the Drawbacks outnumbering the bonuses from the Formation? - All units hit on Ini 1, so always hit last. - 6x Concussive weapons . - No Ranged Attacks. As my only Terminator Unit isnt a Balanced Build more Usefull? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well 2 things, 1, Arjac does have a small (6") assault weapon with his hammer, so there is that. Also the Unit isn't confined to just 5 dudes, you can take up to 7 + Arjac. You can add 1 dude with a cyclone missile launcher. That thing can hit like a truck about anywhere on the field you want. As for the Initiative problem I got nothing . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spazmonkey Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I guess you would have to ask this of any th/ss unit. the crusader gives the unit the ranges attacks. plus arjacs throwing. th/ss units are not meant to worry about ranged. thats why they get wrapped in AV14 with plenty of weapons strapped to it. honestly if you take TH/SS and land raider already this is a no brainer. Infact I would also use combined with void claws and vindicators. charge some thunderwolves in with the vindicators and crusader. deep strike in 5-10 void claws for distraction and hit the objectives with some grey hunters in rhinos or DP. chuck in a stormfang to take advantage of the void claws ability.... Hella assaulty and nasty. getting into CC ASAP and hold objectives with those grey hunters. Darn now im going to have to write up this list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well 2 things, 1, Arjac does have a small (6") assault weapon with his hammer, so there is that. Also the Unit isn't confined to just 5 dudes, you can take up to 7 + Arjac.What makes you think the maximum is 7+ Arjac? The maximum is 10 + Arjac. The only restriction is that the LRC must be the unit's dedicated transport. The whole unit need not be transported in it. Whether it is a good idea to take all ten and and deploy them outside the LRC is a different question. It seems Space Wolves do no longer get combat squads. So putting 5 with 2 CMLs in the LRC is no longer an option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochteas Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well 2 things, 1, Arjac does have a small (6") assault weapon with his hammer, so there is that. Also the Unit isn't confined to just 5 dudes, you can take up to 7 + Arjac.What makes you think the maximum is 7+ Arjac? The maximum is 10 + Arjac. The only restriction is that the LRC must be the unit's dedicated transport. The whole unit need not be transported in it. Whether it is a good idea to take all ten and and deploy them outside the LRC is a different question. It seems Space Wolves do no longer get combat squads. So putting 5 with 2 CMLs in the LRC is no longer an option. I was going off the assumption they would need to travel in the LRC I guess your right nothing stopping you from getting 10+Arjac. and just slogging it next to the LRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonarmy Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Or deep striking with 10 TDAWG and Arjac!! that unit would take a lot of fire power to shift at T5. Although it is a pricey unit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 LR Crus is mandatory for the Formation Bonus.So max 7 TH/SS. I already counted the Granades after Dismbark for 1 off Ranged attack. Secondly i always suggest a round number, since u only get T+1 when your 2 bases touch, _ | _ having the 6 in 3 pairs like that with 2" inch is the most spreadout postioning possible. Third: After long long thinking the 25 Points for CML are to much. I rather use the running and make a sure Charge than 2 Missle hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonarmy Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 LR Crus is mandatory for the Formation Bonus.So max 7 TH/SS. I already counted the Granades after Dismbark for 1 off Ranged attack. Secondly i always suggest a round number, since u only get T+1 when your 2 bases touch, _ | _ having the 6 in 3 pairs like that with 2" inch is the most spreadout postioning possible. Third: After long long thinking the 25 Points for CML are to much. I rather use the running and make a sure Charge than 2 Missle hits. You can take more models if you don't deploy in the LR. Where in the rules does it say you have to deploy in the land raider? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I love the retaliation attack with the shield at s8 ap2 whenever you make a save with the shield. Get a GK Librarian with Liber, roll 4x on Sanctic to get sanctuary to get a 2++ with the shields and go around killing people by passing your saves :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 It's only on sixes you get the retaliation attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 It's only on sixes you get the retaliation attack. So? It's still fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I already counted the Granades after Dismbark for 1 off Ranged attack. Pretty sure wolf guard lose their grenades when they are given TDA, which is why they assault launchers on the LRC are usually important (for assualting into cover)...however as they are all TH/SS it aint gonna matter too much, cos theyre already I1, but aye, pretty sure termys cant throw grenades as a shooting attack. After long long thinking the 25 Points for CML are to much. I rather use the running and make a sure Charge than 2 Missle hits. If you are coming out of a landraider, and playing aggressively, you should be able to guarantee a turn two charge, at worst turn 3 if youve been driving slowly and firing everything off the LR. Surely you're want to keep them in that landraider until well within charge range... also..if you are footslogging, CML are ace. not sure you can charge after running?? So having the CML lets you shoot at something if having to footslog...and can easily take down a light tank/couple speeders/some infantry, or if charging out of the LR, soften up some targets/bust open a transport..allowing you to charge the unit inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 You cannot run and charge unless you have fleet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 You cannot run and charge unless you have fleet. cool thats what i thought, just having a bit of a friday brainmelt ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 wait hang on a second......you can run and charge if you do have fleet?!! am I reading that correctly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhrakken Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 You cannot run and charge unless you have fleet. Not Not really it's 5th edition rule not 7th. Poor genestealers!!!!!! In 7th you can't run then charge, :-( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 /phew thought I'd completely missed something...shame Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 I thought the Granade Launcher gives the TDA FRag Granades so they can throw them after they disembark. And Thx for Run/Charge thing didnt know that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rift Blade Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Ummmm, what grenade launcher? The Frag Launchers on the Crusader? They just let the unit assaulting out of the LRC count as having Frag Grenades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 LR Crus is mandatory for the Formation Bonus.So max 7 TH/SS. Just because the Crusader is a part of the Formation doesn't mean the Terminators have to ocuppy it. They can certainly still Deep Strike, or Footslog, independently to whatever you chose to do with your Land Raider in the game. Therefore, you are not capped at 8 Bulky models, unless you do intend to start the game in the Transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 You cannot run and charge unless you have fleet.Not Not really it's 5th edition rule not 7th. Poor genestealers!!!!!! In 7th you can't run then charge, :-( D'oh! I checked running but did not check fleet. This is indeed a relic of 5th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297535-arjac-shieldbrothers-usefullnes/#findComment-3824802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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