Mouse83 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 No. Otherwise the point of this exercise is bunk. Load up on Henchmen Squads and Psybolt HB Razors. If the units are not from Faction: Grey Knights, they shoudln't be used. Or I'm putting up 1,500 points of Culexes Assassins as the list to beat. I was just trying to be smart. What seems to be the general idea behind any 7th edition codex is that you need to bring allies. Anyways, while making this list it bothers me that the HQ choices are just crap, and it feels lacking, but I cant say what is missing. HQ Brother captain (1) (tel.homer, psycannon) Elites Palladin squad (5) (narthecium, 2x psynannon) Troops Strike squad (10) (2xincinerator, 2x hammer) Strike squad (5) (psycannon, tel. Homer) Razorback Fast Stormraven (tl-lascannon, tl-multimelta) Heavy Land raider Purgation squad (5) (4xincinerator) What do you think ? What`s your list ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3826914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I was just trying to be smart. My bad! :) What seems to be the general idea behind any 7th edition codex is that you need to bring allies. This holds for most, but it's glaring where there are some Codexes that can work as is, and don't require allies to cover all the bases. Sadly, we're not one of them. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3827219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Most 7th competitive GK lists that are bound look like this... 1500pts Librarian 10 Terminators 5 Terminators 10 Interceptors 2 NDK Personally I use purifiers and 2 rhinos by removing the interceptors and a few other luxuries but essentially our best builds revolve around Librarian, Terminator and NDK forms. I'm very frustrated by this. Its destructive to my game group as I keep winning and I try to be as much a gent as possible about it but even I think I'm an ass hole for playing it over and over. So here's my challenge... Build me a 1500pt list with no terminators, no librarians and no NDKs. Make that list an all comers list that covers as many niches as possible. No allies! Oh and the list must be atleast within touching distance of being competitive because I'm not turning up just to smell my opponent. GO! Removing the best competitive choices and then saying "build a competitive list" is hilarious and ridiculous at the same time. "Hey eldar build a competitive list with no wave serpents, wraithknights, farseers or jetbikes". So everyone has easily identified the best choices in GKs. Its unfortunate and indicative of a poorly designed book. Lets get over it already (not at the OP just in general). People shouldn't be hammered for diversifying from the top choices but the mentality is that everyone has 10 wave serpents and 5 imperial knights your going second with the wrong deployment and your list is supposed to win NOVA or LVO. How about simply building a list that that you like that functions around a game plan, puts up a fight and doesn't take the easy button choices that everyone always does when a new codex hits? Will you have an uphill battle? Probably. But so would any other army that swore off the best choices and refused to take allies. Your group doesn't like what you bring AND your winning? Great! Take this opportunity to tone it down man. I have done the same thing and its refreshing.. much much better than being forced into a mono build to compete. It will also increase your skills ten fold. So my challenge to you is DONT build a competitive list. Play competitively dont be afraid to take some lumps and enjoy yourself. My DE are in a similar boat to GK now and while each newly released faction feels they took it in the shorts worse than the others I suspect the cruddex treatment is par for the course now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3827730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Ahem. I'm pretty sure Space Wolves lost nothing of note in their codex update. Plus they got NEW STUFF. We literally lost army choices, and the few things that were decent-to-medicore got shot down to 'you actively want to lose' tier choices. Purgators are the worst incarnation they've ever been (NIGHT. VISION. Salvo...just stop Jervis, we get it), Dreads lost their only cool combo AND went up in price, Paladins still melt to Riptides and cost exactly the same...none of what was bad last edition improved, and several good choices went into the trashcan because Jervis doesn't understand psybolts or half our armoury options. New DE seem pretty meh. They're almost exactly the same as before, got some cool new formations and their 'Power From Pain' is turn based now. They'll still die horribly to mass S6/7 and Tides etc. Knights also stomp all over them, as their lance weaponry is negated by multiple HP and a hard invul save of 4+. I get your philosophy, but its hard enough as is eking out wins with our new book. You guys can experiment but GW nerfed even our already terrible units into actively bad ones. That said, I think experimenting with Allies can bring up new lists and combos. In our book itself though, as a pure list...its very hard to break the mould. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3828317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE PORTCULLIS Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Removing the best competitive choices and then saying "build a competitive list" is hilarious and ridiculous at the same time. So everyone has easily identified the best choices in GKs. Its unfortunate and indicative of a poorly designed book. Lets get over it already (not at the OP just in general). People shouldn't be hammered for diversifying from the top choices but the mentality is that everyone has 10 wave serpents and 5 imperial knights your going second with the wrong deployment and your list is supposed to win NOVA or LVO. How about simply building a list that that you like that functions around a game plan, puts up a fight and doesn't take the easy button choices that everyone always does when a new codex hits? Will you have an uphill battle? Probably. But so would any other army that swore off the best choices and refused to take allies. So my challenge to you is DONT build a competitive list. Play competitively dont be afraid to take some lumps and enjoy yourself. The point of this thread is to try to assemble alternative game plans as you point out but it is my fear that there really is nothing viable other than the standard monobuild. Sure I could swap out the purifiers and put in a Land Raider, swap a NDK for a couple of dreadnoughts but there is nothing to compel me to do so other than the mere fact of being bored with the codex. My point is that nothing in the codex adds synergy or acts as a force multiplier. Nothing overtly works well together to allow truely creative lists. There's no Stracken type unit beefing up stuff in a bubble around him. There's no Coteaz unlocking :cuss. We have no units that add interest to anything short of ICs lending bonuses to the units they join. Where you point out my original question is both hilarious and ridiculous please consider that I set this thread up so people would hopefully see that this codex is both those things. PS I really am trying to like this codex too, thanks for the feedback. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3828786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 God damn must like that post multiple times. /like Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297583-can-we-defeat-the-monobuild/page/2/#findComment-3828805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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