Wave Serpent Killer

[L30n1d4s]

So, of all the Imperial armies/codices, I think the single most effective Wave Serpent hunter (at least for ranged engagements) is Tigurius with Divination (for re-rolls via Prescience and Ignore Cover via Perfect Timing; with PML(3) and re-rolls, he should have a very good chance of getting Perfect Timing) and 3 Centurions with Grav Cannons/Amps.

 

This unit has 15 Grave shots a turn, with an average of 13 hits.... ignoring cover from Jink/Holofields, this gives an average of 4 stripped hull points or one dead Wave Serpent a turn. Even if you don't completing kill a Wave Serpent (i.e. rolling poorly), you will at least immobilize it, making it useless as a transport and much less effective as a shooting platform (and vulnerable to eventual assault with Krak grenades/Melta Bombs).

 

Now, this unit weighs in at over 400 points, which is a lot for killing a single Wave Serpent.... however, the ability to do this every turn means, by turn 3, you have potentially neutralized 3 Wave Serpents, accounting for much of the Eldar mobility/firepower and also over 400 points of Wave Serpent models, depending on how they are equipped.... if you go all the way through turn 6-7, you potentially kill up to up to 6 Wave Serpents, or almost 900 points of the enemy force and, likely, almost all his mechanized mobility.

 

 

So what do you all think?

 

 

Agree, disagree, have another unit that has been effective against the (arguably) most cost-effective single unit in the game right now?

[knife&fork]

Won't they be top priority for the eldar player? They usually don't have problems dealing with 2+ saves.

 

Any high strength weapon with ignore cover feels like a strong contender. Only problem is taking enough of them.

Legion of the damned and Vindicare assassins are the first things that pop up. Imperial guard are more sensitive to Eldar shooting but can dish out ignore cover from several sources. Non loyalists can bring noise marines, those are quite rough on serpents.

 

If forgeworld is an option then things really open up with the Sicaran as a hot option. 

[minigun762]

 

Agree, disagree, have another unit that has been effective against the (arguably) most cost-effective single unit in the game right now?

 

Don't forget the simple destructive beauty of assaulting it with krak grenades. No cover boosts, no fancy shield reducing hits to glances, just a lot of explosives. 

[Axagoras]

a sicarin battle tank with the mars legacy :3

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yeah, that's a Wave Serpent killer.  It's also an "everything else" killer; there's not much that unit can't mulch in a turn or two.

[Axagoras]

my dream tank <3

[Tangamarine]

That Sicaran has a prized place in my heart too.

A savy eldar player would likely try to keep the serpents out of range of the gravcannons, not hard to do if they don'yt have anything that needs to get close to you

[minigun762]

IF Devastators manning a quad gun would be another take all comers choice that's a strong option.

[Jolemai]

Whar weapons? Missile Launchers?

[minigun762]

Whar weapons? Missile Launchers?

Yeah, and I'd splurge on flakk missiles unless I absolutely knew that flyers wouldn't be an issue.

[SyNidus]

Jump Troops! Crack it open with some Fiyaaa Krakkas! (See what i did there ;) )

[Sheesh Mode]

I'm just going to drive towards them with my Landraiders while Forgefiends provide cover fire from the back, then assault the waifs that fall out of their broken sail boats. I'll come back in a week and tell you all how that goes.

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

disagree.

I would rather use the dev centurions against monsterous creatures than a wave serpent transport, but this all depends on deployment and target of opportunity.

My method.

small unit of Lotd. It has worked pretty well for me. Deep strike unit behind transport. mass rapid-fire and a multi-melta for insurance. 150 pts.

@synidus. Am I assuming you meant BA vanguard jump troops using heroic intervention to krak open eldar transport?

@sheesh. Write your experience in this thread when you come back.

[Sheesh Mode]

I certainly will Mechanicus_Adept. I'll be studying the Eldar codex before then, I have only faced Eldar twice in my entire gaming experience. I would much rather start out ahead with my new list ready to annihilate the elves than be caught unprepared and flat footed. I will also be posting a more detailed report on my thread: Kharne and the Black Tide in the chaos marines forum. 

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

A good option to deal with Wave Serpents is simply to get them to jink, particularly when there are too many to possibly bring them all down. Trying to overpower them is a fools task for most armies, just debuff them.

[SyNidus]

Nope, i mean RG Jump Pack marines with the Wings of Deliverance rule! Although, i am insanely jealous of BA Vanguard Vets because they kept Heroic Intervention (Not for long though ;P )

[Sheesh Mode]

My opinion of the Wave Serpent's inability to penetrate Landraiders, and the exploitability of that remains the same. Likewise, the usefulness of high rate-of-fire weapons and high to medium armor value vehicles like Predators, Forgefiends, Stalkers, and Riflemen, also remains the same. If you can bring enough autocannons to the party you are capable of winning. 

 

My game against the tournament tailored Eldar list was disastrous. My opponent fielded a lynx, 2 hornets, a Wraith Knight with Suncannons, and 5 Wave Serpents. A combination of lucky rolling (only 1 wave serpent was needed to a single Forge Fiend) and D weapons from the lynx saw 2 forgefiends and a landraider dead on turn 1. Overall, I feel that without Lords of War I would be fully capable of taking on an Eldar force. Though obviously hard-pressed.

[Axagoras]

well sure a land raider can tank a serpent, but it leaves it open to almost all of the other armies that mulch land raiders like no problem, or gets wrecked by a fire prism or 2 with their fat lance. The best way to deal with serpents is ignores cover or enough shots to make them jink.

[knife&fork]

Nope, i mean RG Jump Pack marines with the Wings of Deliverance rule! Although, i am insanely jealous of BA Vanguard Vets because they kept Heroic Intervention (Not for long though ;P )

 

They might seem good, but in reality the high cost (minimum 30 pt per model) keeps them from being a viable answer. BA VVs are really good at eating infantry units that suck an in CC and can't fire overwatch, but that's about it.

Use them kill a serpent and you'll just get obliterated after taking one down. Not a good trade.

[Sheesh Mode]

well sure a land raider can tank a serpent, but it leaves it open to almost all of the other armies that mulch land raiders like no problem

Name them. 

[Azash]

 

well sure a land raider can tank a serpent, but it leaves it open to almost all of the other armies that mulch land raiders like no problem

 

Name them.

Really? That's easy any army with decent melee MC's. So Eldar, Deamons, and Chaos SM. Armies with easy access to mass meltas fire so Eldar, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Guard, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Dark Eldar cause of the Dark Lance. Any army with access to haywire or grav weapons. Knights are pretty dam good at it too.

 

That's just off the top of my head.

[Axagoras]

 

well sure a land raider can tank a serpent, but it leaves it open to almost all of the other armies that mulch land raiders like no problem

Name them. 

 

any imperium army because of meltas, a tau army will usually have some fusion guns on suits for anti heavy vehicle. DE have ravagers with dark lances and *shudder* the flier with a s9 lance. Eldar have wraithknights with their 10 2s and s10 in cc, fire dragons and fire prisms. Chaos has maulerfiends and melta, the only 2 armies that might have a problem with a land raider would be nids and daemons, but both have some good answers to it. I havnt used a land raider in a serious game of 40k since mid 5th edition.

 

Now back to serpents, either have enough ignores cover shots to kill it or a few shots to force it to jink and reduce its damage output for a turn.

[Sheesh Mode]

So, effectively melta, lance, and multiple S10 AP2/1 weapons? Yes they can destroy Landraiders, given sufficient range and additional firepower. Deploying and maneuvering make this difficult for my opponents, considering that Meltas are largely a defensive weapon against Landraiders due to their short range I find more often than not I will assault the unit before it can destroy the transport. 

 

S10 and monstrous creatures both face the issue of actually penetrating the armor. Even with a strength 10 attack it is still only a 1/3 chance of penetration, let alone the odds of immobilizing or destroying the thing. Keep in mind it has 4 hullpoints. Yes. There are hard counters to the transport, but even these are either expensive and rare, short-ranged, or require large quantities to ensure the tank's destruction. 

 

Hence it's application against Wave Serpents. If necessary you can ignore the transport to win the objective game, even drive towards the enemy line and provoke your opponent to retreat or risk a charge from the contents. It is simply one solution amongst several. 

[Kaedes Nex]

Unless you have 3 or more Land Raiders (maybe 2 or a combo with a Spartan could work too) with something like Invisibility, Void Shields, or 4++ on them, a single Land Raider really is not durable whatsoever unless the opponent is unprepared for AV14.

[Axagoras]

smash allows reroll of armor pen rolls when smashing