intel31337 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hi, Wanted to see if anyone has experience with fielding Cypher with CSM. I am currently building an army centered around using Cypher (and Huron) to infiltrate 20 marines up the field in cover. I'm not expecting to win any tournaments, but I think it would be a fun and brutal list to play. Wanted to know if anyone has tried or faced something similar. Cypher 20 x CSM - MoS, Icon of Excess, 2x Plasma Gun Expensive as hell, I know. But plant them up field in a building near some objectives, and you have a unit that should be pretty difficult to dislodge with shroud and FNP, that will keep the shots comin. Charging them means they eat 2 S7 AP2 shots from cypher in overwatch, and another two shots in melee. The CSM will swing first against most enemies. FNP will help them survive and ATSKNF should help with their leadership. After the combat, they H&R and pump out more shots in your next turn. Of course, they are still just marines, and if your enemy focuses them, they will still crumble. However, the combination of Cypher's formation and Huron means you could have up to 3 units of chosen, and up to 2 other units (depending on what Huron rolls) infiltrating right along with them. Your opponent will have many threats in their face right off the bat, that could bring a ton of firepower (chosen) to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Swap the plasma for melta. Then you can actually assault after shooting your special weapons (after T1). Or do it with 20 noise marines. 57 overwatch shots +D3 AP3 wall of death from the champion, or lots of shots into the opponent next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montuhotep Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The only thing I would raise is the possibility that 20 plus Marines in one unit can be awful unwieldy to use.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intel31337 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 The issue I see with meltas is their purpose in a unit like this. Do I really want to be assaulting with this unit? Or do I maximize damage inflicted by shooting, while staying in the safety of cover, while claiming objectives?Also meltas present a bit of a target conundrum in shooting. If I use melta as anti tank, then I got 18 other marines sitting in their thumbs. Also If I am planning on assaulting, am relying a lot on two melta shots popping a transport. If it fails, then that unit is stuck doing nothing. Also, plasma can threaten most vehicles, save Armor 14.Against troops, meltas are kinda wasted points, bolters, plasma, or flanker is better. Against MC, plasmid are better. The only time a melta is preferred is against multiwound, t4 infantry or high armor vehicles.Noise marines are an interesting alternative. Will cost more but noise weapons are quite potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intel31337 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 The only thing I would raise is the possibility that 20 plus Marines in one unit can be awful unwieldy to use.... Yea... I think this is my biggest concern. But I think its the best way to maximize Cypher. 190 points is steep, and if you only have 10-15 models, you aren't really getting the best bang for your buck... haha then again, if I wanted the best bang for the buck, I wouldn't be playing Cypher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 18 bp shots, 2 melta and 61 combat attacks, or 38 boltgun and 4 plasma shots? If you want to be charged, give them the MoK. The issue I see with meltas is their purpose in a unit like this. Do I really want to be assaulting with this unit? Or do I maximize damage inflicted by shooting, while staying in the safety of cover, while claiming objectives? Seeing as they can get more attacks than shots, assault? Having 20 dudes sitting on an objective...yes, you will keep it, but your opponent will just stay more than 12" away from them, and take the other 5 objectives. If you have a massive unit like that, you have to clobber your opponent with it. Also meltas present a bit of a target conundrum in shooting. If I use melta as anti tank, then I got 18 other marines sitting in their thumbs. Also If I am planning on assaulting, am relying a lot on two melta shots popping a transport. If it fails, then that unit is stuck doing nothing. Also, plasma can threaten most vehicles, save Armor 14. The whole point of the meltas is to allow you to charge after shooting, instead of hamstringing yourself. If you really wanted firepower, you'd go with the flamers. Not really. They are Low AP weapons that allow you to assault. Why would you shoot a tank and waste the shooting of 18 other guys? But, if Cypher is in the unit, then you get 2x melta, 2x plasma, maybe a plasma pistol on the champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dysorange Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Aren't the rules of deployment in 7th ed. not allowing you to use Cypher or any IC to Infiltrate a unit without it? I think it is worded in a way that you cannot join a unit BEFORE being actually deployed on the board like "You can join a unit by deploying less than 2" away from them" which you cannot do if you infiltrate your IC out of your deployment zone because then your unit cannot be within 2" (except if you are 1" away from your zone....). I don' know if that sounds clear, but you might want to double check this deployment order thingy. If I am right the only way to infiltrate 20 CSM like this are Huron, Ahriman, or a lucky roll for a CSM HQ. Otherwise, if I ever infitrate an infantry unit it will definitely be a squad of Terminator in a Land Raider. Just for the fun of it. And as a little tribute to Creed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intel31337 Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 The whole point of the meltas is to allow you to charge after shooting, instead of hamstringing yourself. If you really wanted firepower, you'd go with the flamers. Not really. They are Low AP weapons that allow you to assault. Why would you shoot a tank and waste the shooting of 18 other guys? But, if Cypher is in the unit, then you get 2x melta, 2x plasma, maybe a plasma pistol on the champ. If I wanted to charge, I'd forgo shooting the plasma guns and shoot bolt pistols. 2 extra S8 shots won't make a huge difference if I wanted to charge. The short range of melta guns means fast opponents can just stay out of your range. 2 plasma guns, however, will give me mid-ranged utility, and higher volumes of low AP fire (6 plasma shots in total including cypher). Longer range of plasma guns means I might be able to catch those faster units with a few shots. I feel it ultimately gives me more flexibility. Re: Dysorange - I am aware of the infiltrate rules, and did mention taking Huron in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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