What is a Chaos Sorcerer to you?

[Loesh]

In what I can see as quickly becoming a habit, here is another 'What is X to you?' thread, before long it'll be 'What is this piece of toast to you?' and 'What is a tyranid to you? Well yes a tyranid, but is it REALLY a tyranid?"

When talking with ADB I mentioned that I really like Warp Lore, and as anyone who has read about the warband I have(Whose leader is a Chaos Sorcerer of the Emperors Children.) and my general views on Chaos, it's probably very little surprise that I enjoy the Warp and the powers that come with it. I suppose on a broader sense you could replace this title with "What is magic to you?" though the persons who wield these terrible powers are as important as the powers themselves.

Magic and supernatural things are relatively new to literature, and when I say relatively I mean like a thousand years old not counting mythology and religion in other cultures. It used to be that if you have magic in a work of fiction, that was something that earned a demerit, it was considered garbage, a power fantasy that doesn't add to the story. Which it can be certainly and most of the modern problems when detailing magic boil down to using magic frivolously to solve any problem. A lot of people feel that a fantasy universe should be consistent with itself and magic throws this all out of order, and mishandled this can completely ruin a setting.

As a sort of counter balance the mark of a good handling of magic usually involves some basic rules and training involved in it's use, the people who most effectively wield magic are wanderers and scholars(The Tolkien and Thousand Sons fans out here know exactly where i'm coming from.) but what truly shows a good handling of magic is doing this but at the same time keeping a light screen of mystique around it, for the opposite problem is just as much poison to the story: Too often magic is robbed of all it's magic, and at that point you might as well use science, especially in a scientific setting.

Now if any of you have read any of my posts, looked at my avatar, my chapter, or even my name, you might of guessed that i'm a fan of Slaanesh and probably Slaaneshi Sorcerers(You may of also figured out the sky is blue.) and what I like in my sorcerers probably draw strongly on Slaaneshi elements, which is a shame because I can't remember a Black Library novel that mentions them in detail and to my knowledge the only one with any background fluff has an extraordinarily long name and was killed by Abaddon for trying to recruit Black Legion troops into the Emperors Children.

I find this such a tremendous shame, because I find Emperors Children sorcerers as absolutely fascinating and they don't even have the background to warrant such a fascination. They had no librarians and only showed up at the Siege of Terra, which tells me that these people were probably Assault and Tactical marines who while not A-grade psykers are probably not too shabby with a sword or a gun. Which actually makes them more interesting to me, as magic isn't as impressive when it's done constantly...in the Lord of the Rings, did any of you notice that Gandalf used magic hardly at all? In fact, while he wields a staff he also wields a sword, the grumpy old man didn't just shoot fireballs at the Balrog. Instead he physically stood in it's way and told it that it cannot pass, casted a shield, and then for the rest of the fight stabbed it with his sword.

Expanding a bit more on that, another thing I like about Slaaneshi magic is it's not as tangible as a fireball or a stream of bile, sure Tzeentch and Nurgle mix it up a bit now and again like with Withering Gaze but not enough for my taste. Slaanesh on the other hand? Well let's look at Gandalf's direct opposite Saurman, the bad wizard and how his magic works.

"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, it's very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they said that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in themselves by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke it seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell."

That was from the Two Towers, and it was a more frighting to me then any spell cast by a magic user in recent memory. What is the extent of this power? just by speaking he can turn your friends against you and you against yourself, what are it's limitations? does it have limitations? if he spoke into a Vox could it control the people on the other side? That is the voice of Saurman, and even when he is defeated he still manages to make the protagonists doubt with next to nothing to back up those words.

Not only that, but there are other spells that Slaaneshi have...yes they can override your senses straight up and send you into a fit of seizures, they can even rip out your soul in close combat to horrify everyone around you. But so too can they conjure blades of light or golden clouds of agony, when I read about Slaaneshi psychic powers I don't read about fire, ice, wind, water, and earth. Rather I read about color, shadow, language, and even dreams with the superstitions and folklore that surround these evocative things, these places where the boundaries of reality seem flexible or even just sidestepped altogether thus making the implausible seem plausible.

And that's what a Sorcerer is to me(And I suppose the second half of this could be named 'Why do we have no named Slaaneshi Sorcerers yet?!' )

[chaplain belisarius]

Interesting. Slaanesh is probably my favourite chaos god. That's the exactly how I think of slaanesh powers. Its charisma and persuasion, not crude force.

[Fibonacci]

To me a chaos sorcerer is a two wound model that needs to stay mobile and out of direct combat.

[Loesh]

To me a chaos sorcerer is a two wound model that needs to stay mobile and out of direct combat.

 

Which is kind of funny to me actually, because to me one of the defining characteristics of Chaos Sorcerers in 40k as opposed to a Magican in almost any other setting is that they tend to be heavily armored physically intimidating people. 

[Dark Disciple]

To me a Chaos Sorcerer is anyone who has bound their soul to the things in the warp for power and knowledge. What they do from there is by and large up to themselves, assuming they were clever enough when bargaining their souls away. Being a Psycher helps but it's not a necessity for sorcery if you know the rituals.

That was one of the big things I took from Ahriman: Exile and Talon of Horus. Before the Heresy the Thousand Sons were psychics who used their will to manipulate the warp using the Enumerations and other training methods to focus their skills. After Prospero they began to delve into true Sorcery, binding daemons, making pacts and enacting rituals keyed to the powers in the warp.

Each of the Chaos Sorcerers I've though up always have something that ties them to the warp somehow, a Slaaneshi Sorcerer who desecrates his own flesh to fuel his powers, a World Eater Shaman who uses the blood of the fallen to empower his allies (Biomancy) or a Black Legionnaire who summons and devours daemons to fuel his warp craft.

My Crimson Slaughter Sorcerer is a self styled Blood-Mage who is a locus for the voices that haunt him. He uses his powers to twist flesh (biomancy), helping the Warp Smiths to create Helbrutes, assisting the Apothecaries with Fabius Bile's esoteric machines and carrying out his own experiments. I imagine him having secret dealings with the Flesh Crafters of Commorragh and am hoping to make some interesting spawn from the DE Grotesques.

[Loesh]

To me a Chaos Sorcerer is anyone who has bound their soul to the things in the warp for power and knowledge. What they do from there is by and large up to themselves, assuming they were clever enough when bargaining their souls away. Being a Psycher helps but it's not a necessity for sorcery if you know the rituals.

That was one of the big things I took from Ahriman: Exile and Talon of Horus. Before the Heresy the Thousand Sons were psychics who used their will to manipulate the warp using the Enumerations and other training methods to focus their skills. After Prospero they began to delve into true Sorcery, binding daemons, making pacts and enacting rituals keyed to the powers in the warp.

Each of the Chaos Sorcerers I've though up always have something that ties them to the warp somehow, a Slaaneshi Sorcerer who desecrates his own flesh to fuel his powers, a World Eater Shaman who uses the blood of the fallen to empower his allies (Biomancy) or a Black Legionnaire who summons and devours daemons to fuel his warp craft.

My Crimson Slaughter Sorcerer is a self styled Blood-Mage who is a locus for the voices that haunt him. He uses his powers to twist flesh (biomancy), helping the Warp Smiths to create Helbrutes, assisting the Apothecaries with Fabius Bile's esoteric machines and carrying out his own experiments. I imagine him having secret dealings with the Flesh Crafters of Commorragh and am hoping to make some interesting spawn from the DE Grotesques.

 

Sorry, I should of clarified a bit. When I say Psychic powers, I include Warp Sorcery in that, I tend to view them as two different ways to do what is essentially the exact same thing. Though of course through Enuncia about anyone can cast magic.

 

I tend to go with the definition that Chaos Sorcerers have to be Space Marines, though of course this may certainly be needlessly specific and narrow. Also: For some reason I always loved the term Blood Mage, it's such an ominous pair of words together.

[incinerator950]

A gigantic pain in the ass.

[Loesh]

Well, at least he's doing his job then. :p

[Trevak Dal]

Cheapest HQ available (and comes with a built in weapon and psychic level!)

 

I'd decided that my Grey Knights would be my "psychic" and Terminator heavy army (Lucked out on that one, LMAO), though I do have one sorcerer, I wish you could give him two force weapons, or make an extra power weapon "Force" for X points or whatever, he's got a force stave and a Force sword (because Sorcerer's/Space Wizards should have staves and swords, warriors should have axes)

 

His sword is made from the shards of a defeated Dreadknight's Nemesis Force Sword-I run him with a Force Stave and the Murder Sword-to which in my mind when he stabs someone its like that special move you could do in one of the Tenchu games where you stab them and their soul get's ripped out/they get struck by lightning.

 

He's got the most cloth on him in my Chaos.

[John Bastard]

For my girlfriend, a sorcerer is a guy with a wand and a cloack, learning magic and spells in Hogwarts.

For me, a sorcerer is an individual of pure greed and ambition, fueled by chaos powers, enhanced by its mutated body and his freaking power armour. Blazing thunder and firing guns all over the place.

[Loesh]

For my girlfriend, a sorcerer is a guy with a wand and a cloack, learning magic and spells in Hogwarts.

 

For me, a sorcerer is an individual of pure greed and ambition, fueled by chaos powers, enhanced by its mutated body and his freaking power armour. Blazing thunder and firing guns all over the place.

 

It is kind of weird isn't it? It's one of those things where you compare Warhammer to other settings, and you see how much it's diverged(And in my humble opinion, improved.) on a concept. Sorcerers in D&D, Harry Potter, or even LoTR don't stir me quite as much. When I compare them to the last, it's purely for reasons of showing how the concepts there could be taken to improve on the concept, not because I think ones world does magic better then Warhammer...because I don't actually think it does.

[Tenebris]

My alter-ego in the grimdark M41 since the halcyon days of Chaos Space Marines 3.5, but so much much more. When I will have time to post an eloquent description (aka wall of text) I will elaborate. 

[MaliGn]

The eighth son of an eighth son of an eighth son? Wizard cubed.

[Loesh]

Looking forward to hearing about it Ten!

[Noctem Cultor]

A Sorcerer to me is a flaw of mankind and their superhuman warriors.

Being a Night Lords player and before that a Grey Knights player in the past I have a different look on the Warp than most lurking around here. Sorcerers are just vessels for control of players for the bigger game played by the Big Four and if they stopped we would probably have toppled the Imperium by now.

Don't get me wrong their powers can be great but its a weapon just waiting to back fire same as any Psyker.

By the Gods I think I may have leaked my own view into my Warband leader

[plasmaspam]

My Sorcerer, being part of an VIII Legion unaligned remnant warband, is a Librarian who has thrown caution to the wind and allowed his knowledge and mastery of the warp to develop beyond the constraints imposed upon the Astartes by the False Emperor in times past.

 

He believes he can master the power of the empyrean to enable him to achieve the revenge he craves, and secure the place in the coming New Order that is his right.

 

He is blind to the fact that he is slowly succumbing to corruption under the influences of the very powers he insists he has control over.

[Verbal Underbelly]

The eighth son of an eighth son of an eighth son? Wizard cubed.

Ha nice! I recognise that.

 

I see sorcerers as I see the rest of chaos marines - a black mirror of their loyalist brothers.

[MaliGn]

 

The eighth son of an eighth son of an eighth son? Wizard cubed.

Ha nice! I recognise that.

I see sorcerers as I see the rest of chaos marines - a black mirror of their loyalist brothers.

Pratchett ftw!

 

I can see as many variations on chaos sorcerers as there are variations on chaos. There are out and out battle mages unleashing witch fires having bartered with various daemonic forces, daemonancers specialising in the rituals of evocation and binding, warp gazing seers divining truth from the empyrean and guiding their masters, seductive slaaneshi sorcerers leading their foes on wild goose chases and influencing their minds, etc etc.

[Tenebris]

As promised, brace for a wall of text...

 

The first statement is that the sorcerer archetype is my go to alter ego in all RPG games as well as both in the 40k and Fantasy universe. For me the sorcerer is the scholar who is in it not just for the intellectual kick but because of power, the power to manipulate the reality around him, the power to bend people to his will, the power to make the unreal real. 

 

In the Chaos lore we have to "general" forms of sorcerer, the one who is born with the power and the the one who acquired it in his long years of exposure to the warp. Said that Chaos is the very realm of sorcery, where wishes become acts, where esoteric things like the last breath of a honorable man, the tear of a virgin and so on have a symbolic as well as a metaphysical value to them. A sorcerer is a person who learned his craft from the Warp itself, prying secrets from the denizens of the Emyprean, raiding daemonic libraries as well as stealing the secrets from his more accomplished peers.

 

My view of the Sorcerer, the astartes variant, is the classic one which accompanies the 40k lore since day one. A former librarian who has fallen to Chaos and who is willing to do anything and risk everything to gather as much power, knowledge, arcane lore and enchanted items as he can with the clear goal to be a powerful being, a luminary, a peerless master of the Art. The forma mentis of such a figure is very much different than the one concerning a mortal magician, an astartes sorcerer is not only a scholar but he is a warrior first and foremost.

 

This means a whole lot of things. First the sorcerer is very capable to go on long journeys and even fight when need be in order to acquire his precious arcane knowledge. We must neither discount the advanced mental faculties of the space marine as well as the powerful systems of his war plate (which can actively act as a cogitator when need be), all this coupled with the enhanced biology, weapons and armor, this master of the arcane is not only deadly but has so many avenues of attack that he is perhaps one of the most dangerous opponents to face.

 

I find the astartes librarians and sorcerers the most intriguing aspect of the space marine lore. We have battle brothers who not only share the physical might of this elite brotherhood of warriors but are also born with a gift which puts them way above and beyond his brothers in terms of sheer power they can harness. In both the HH books and 40k books it is clear what kind of destructive power even a relative novitiate in the Librarius can harness, so much that he has to wear the distinctive effigy of the daemon skull and the blue plate in order to "warn" the brothers around him. 

 

A sorcerer is all that and so much much more. We have a former librarian (going with the classic example) who not only learned the truth about the Warp (or at least learned more about the nature of the Warp) but he is also at long last free of the dogma and indoctrination enforced by the Imperium and his chapter, and to spice all things up, the librarian in question came to learn that there are literal gods out there who not only reward those seeking their gifts but one of such gods is the undisputed master of all things arcane and magical, a patron of scholars, seers and visionaries.

 

Now we all agree that this is exhilarating, this knowledge alone is enough to put a scholary soul on a journey which will never end, the journey to the peaks of scholary power tainted by the unquenchable thirst for more, for more magic, for more power, for more spells, rituals and bound creatures and weapons, there always needs to be more...

 

Enter my view of the Aspiring Sorcerer, my favorite character idea in the 40k universe. We have an astartes who is also a powerful psyker, this astartes is part of a chaos warband or a cabal and this same astartes is now the apprentice of one of those wizened masters of the arcane which may or may not have seen the glories of the Horus Heresy and the endless marvels of the Eye. Such a sorcerer has countless goals, to oust the other apprentices in the competition for the attention of his master, to acquire an item, a spell or a True Name which will give him the edge in such a competition, along with his role as a battlefield psyker, a wise man and a leader of astartes. It also goes that such an Aspiring Sorcerer could have countless ritual tasks as part of his Cabal as well as a role in the complex ritual which require the channeling force of several sorcerers... the ideas behind such a character are infinite, as well as his motives. 

 

In broader terms I see such Aspiring Sorcerers as a very powerful asset to any warband and to their master but also the perfect characters behind I can "write my own narrative" if I use the GW recent meme... 

 

Yet there is more, isn't it? Indeed it is. I love the Thousand Sons, they are my first and last love in the 40k universe but I have never liked to see them part of a shattered and now almost nonexistent legion, a reason why I have had them side with the new Warmaster, Abaddon and his Black Legion (partly also because I am not good with painting blues and black and brass Rubicae look awesome). When we speak of Thousand Sons sorcerers we take the whole concept to a completely different level, hell it is the Thousand Sons, not just a group of astartes, but a whole legion defined by sorcery. 

 

To me a Thousand Sons sorcerer is a survivor of the Rubic, an master of so many philosophical, scholary and academic schools even before we move on the esoteric concepts like sorcery and magic. "My" sorcerer has seen it all, he participated in the arcane orders of his legion, he fought as a battle psyker and helped to define the very use of psychic powers in the Imperium of Man, he is a Prosperine born from bone to sinew, a remnant of an illuminated people whose only seen was to look farther than it was allowed. Not only that, but a Thousand Son sorcerer is also the "classic" mage in my eyes. He has a tower, he has magic minions, he walks around with a spell tome and has a fascination for all types of academic knowledge and an obsession with his Art. 

 

Such a sorcerer is an aloof being, above the mortal concerns of war and hardship, one who is even content to allow others to lead as long as he is free to pursue his insane passion for sorcery. One day he might be binding a Horror to his heka staff, another he would be meditating upon the laws and the unlaws of the Warp, then you could see him debate on the interpretation of the Axiom of Faith with a Dark Apostle... you get the idea...

 

It is this "mage" that it is my alter ego, a former battle psyker of the Thousand Sons, a scholar indoctrinated in one of the many cults in the XVth legion, a sorcerer who knows far too many things to be completely sane and who still thirsts for more. A sorcerer who sees his minions and his brothers as pawns and despite he has a modicum of affection for his charges his passion, his Art comes first, at the expense of any life or earthly goal. But also a scholar who studied the ancient architectural styles of mankind, who is a passionate researcher of Eldar lore, a student of legion laws and customs (an antiquity in M41) and when he finds time a chronicler of the Arrogant Sons, my personal chaos warband.

 

I think that those who embrace Chaos find in the figure of the Sorcerer many archetypes. He can be the intellectual in our warband, the powermonger, the hoarder, the mad scientist, the hermit, the secluded mage, the conjurer and spell binder, the enchanter... 

 

Of all the chaos characters I see in the Sorcerer the greatest potential to create a narrative behind. Also, an this is a personal thing of mine, I can polarize all my interests and passions concerning the 40k universe behind a single character, anything from being a student of history to being a scholar of laws and customs concerning the legions. It is this intellectual freedom which entails in the character of the Sorcerer which I think is all about, the perfect character for a DIY fanficiton, narrative and roleplay. 

[Loesh]

interesting, aside from being a former librarian it's very similar to my interpretation, though that arises mostly from my legion not having librarians.

[Chaeron]

The guiders of the Rubric.

[Tenebris]

Edited the post, I have elaborated more on the topic. 

 

Long story short, I find the Sorcerer the best way to introduce insanity in a Chaos warband. 

[Beachymike123]

To me, Sorcerors can be a corrupt Librarian, turned from their Chapter or from their original Legion, and using the powers of the Warp to their own ends; or they can be individuals who try to use the powers of the Warp as a means to an end without the true connection that those born as Psykers have, and try and wield it as a weapons for their own gains, much in the way a Chaos Lord will wield a sword or axe. To me, that is one of the key differences between the two - Lords are the physical presence of a warband, the molder of it in his image, whereas the Sorceror is the more academic side, seeking out arcane knowledge as a weapon. Generally the Lord is the commander of the warband and the Sorceror an advisor, but there are equal points that a Sorceror is the leader and the Lord the enforcer, or however you see it is equally valid. This is why I love Chaos. 

[40kChrista]

I see the Sorcs as conduits for the Gods.  A way for them to interact, almost directly, with their pawns in their grand schemes.

 

That being said, I love the idea of Sorcs as a leader for a warband, with a sort of "grand vizier" vibe... always being able to provide the right nudge into the right direction to fulfill a Gods wishes.  Even though the price for failure could be having one's entrails hung out to dry or being brought low by the same powers they thought they were serving.

 

I always thought of the Sorc as being of incredible potential... if the Gods favor him, he can be a mighty weapon on his own... both physical and ethereal.  Right now in game terms (for me) it's a Nurgle Sorc, lvl 3, on a Palanquin, with the SpineShiver Blade, that happens to get Iron Arm... good lord is that thing a beat stick.  He's death, and when paired with a Lord... look out.

 

I think the idea of the Lord as being focused on the martial side of the warband while the Sorc is the knowledge side is an apt description and actually fits the way they were designed.