Night Lords Atramentar Terminators thoughts and modeling?

[Noctem Cultor]

Hi all,

 

For those familiar with ADB Night Lord books and HH fluff, The Atramentar are the First Captains Elite force that in the 41st are a scattered bunch attached to those they consider the strongest Warlord of the Legion. Originally they served under First Captain Sevatar.

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad165/Liamgregg1988/Sev_zpsoje6ibjy.jpg

 

First of all I was wondering if it was clarified any where that the Atramentar was the name for all terminators in the NL Legion during the Crusades/Heresy Or if it was just a small elite section?

 

Second is modelling them, I have the Legion Rules and noticed that there are no special rules for them, meaning they are unlikely to get a full model set. Descriptions have them with the snarling Lion shoulder pad ike Sev does and mentions some having tusks. I'd imagine them in retro armour like the NL HH picture.

 

Anyone else imagine or know different?

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

For the loin shoulder pad.  Have you check out Forge World Astral Claws terminators pads, only thing is you getting one per set.  There also Lugft Huron, chapter master of the Astral Claws model from Forge World.

[Lucien Eilam]

First of all I was wondering if it was clarified any where that the Atramentar was the name for all terminators in the NL Legion during the Crusades/Heresy Or if it was just a small elite section?

 

The Atramentar are Sevatar's Company. Terminators from another Company wouldn't be Atramentar.

 

Theoretically, they'd still all be Atramentar even if they weren't Terminators. I don't know if there are any examples, but Sevatar himself wears Mk IV power armour and identifies as Atramentar.

 

‘You’re taking that oath of First Company brotherhood far too seriously,’ she said.

 

Sevatar didn’t reply. He was Atramentar. His brothers were Atramentar. There was nothing to say.

[Kol Saresk]

At the moment(optimum phrase), Sevatar is the only Atramentar seen without Terminator plate.

 

And it would only be those of the First Company that served directly under Sevatar as we know that Sahaal were called the Raptors and at one point in Prince of Crows, Sevatar mentions that he has "sub-captains", with the plural. Which would suggest that 1.)the first company is huge and 2.)is split into sub-companies with their own individual captains.

 

So go crazy with it.

[Balthamal]

There's been some conflicting sources. It's acknowledged the Atramentar were the Terminator armoured command of Sevatar but then you also have bits and pieces saying the jump troop contingent of the 1st Company were under Zso Sahaal's command as well. From Massacre where the Legion structure is laid out, the Atramentar are the 1st Company and all are terminators whereas other company's had their own Terminator Claws completely unrelated to the Atramentar. On the flip side to that, in Prince of Crows it's mentioned they were killed to the last few dozen so what comes after is anyone's guess. In 40k, the scarcity of Terminator armour amongst warbands tend to mean that anyone lucky/brutal enough to have it would be in the Atramentar anyway.

 

Model wise, you want tusks/horns on the helms, and those lion headed shoulder pads from FW for Astral Claws will fit the bill nicely but again 1 per set sucks. What I'd recommend doing is getting some quick molds and using it for that and then use putty/green stuff to have it sculpted ready to go on the pads themselves afterwards. I forget who it was but someone did a blinding job of using the rhino door details and put it on a Contemptor.

 

Only other thing I could think of is decide what type of Warband they're fighting for. If you want to avoid the whole Chaos Pantheon Worship Thing then you'll want to file off all those annoying eight pointed stars

[Lucien Eilam]

Sevatar mentions that he has "sub-captains", with the plural. Which would suggest that 1.)the first company is huge and 2.)is split into sub-companies with their own individual captains.

 

I don't think that's right. His "sub-captains" are the Captains of other Companies that are currently reporting to his overall command.

 

As he ran, he spoke a steady stream of orders into the vox coordinating the Atramentar first and his sub-captains second. Of the nine companies berthed on the Nightfall, he'd only risk one. His own. The Atramentar were coming with him; the others, despite their captains' protestations, would remain aboard the Nightfall and make the run to Terra.

[Kol Saresk]

I don't exactly see how that's contradicting me since we have Zso Sahaal stating that he had a company of his own and was apart of the First Company. Looking at the First Company of the XVI Legion, companies within companies isn't exactly a rarity. Especially since Massacre states that the Night Lords had a very loose organization above the standard company level. So, until AD-B or something a bit more explicit states that the Atramentar are the only units in the First Company, Zso Sahaal did not have a command company and that those companies were not a part of the 1st Company, I stand by my analysis. Since its pretty much been stated that all the other named captains did not have their companies berthed on the Nightfall, which rules them out from being in the mentioned passage.

[plasmaspam]

I thought Atramentar were all first co, who then split their separate ways amongst the shattered Legion after rejecting Sahaal's captaincy as he was Terran-born?

 

Or have I just cobbled together a myth from all the books I've read...

[Kol Saresk]

I thought Atramentar were all first co, who then split their separate ways amongst the shattered Legion after rejecting Sahaal's captaincy as he was Terran-born?

 

Or have I just cobbled together a myth from all the books I've read...

that's right. But as much as can be pieced together, they were only a portion of the First Company, much as how the Justaerin are only a portion of the XVI's First Captain.

[Noctem Cultor]

Wow thanks for all the replies just taken a second to take all those points in.

 

But as much as can be pieced together, they were only a portion of the First Company, much as how the Justaerin are only a portion of the XVI's First Captain.

Okay I think HH Timeline I agree its likely Lol Saresk is right, First Captain being a rank similar to SM Chapter Master its likely that they would have a favoured fighting force picked from the best Marines and give them the best equipment Tactical Dreadnought Armour)

 

At the 'current' time the Atramentar appear to be Terminators who serve Warlords in small Honour Guard ESC sized groups.

 

I wasn't expecting such an in depth look so now I'm going to be reading any mention of the Atramentar to see if I missed anything.

 

As for modeling them I have to admit I looked at the Astral Claw Pads and they work for current model Terminators (though expensive). Originally I had thought they would have a more HH feel to them but modeling them for a 40k force I guess they would salvage just as much as any other unit.

 

Here is what I originally mocked up (I have since then seen the Sevatar image for the separate Prince Of Crows Cover)

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad165/Liamgregg1988/_20141009_180502_zpsnavlpznm.jpg

 

I'm thinking unlike Abaddons Justaerin its unlikely thee Night Lords who are famed for their fast hitting attacks would stick to the Cataphractii Pattern and would instead switch to the Tartaros Pattern for its greater mobility to keep up with their power armoured leader.

The Cataphractii Pattern was amongst the first Terminator armour issued, and suits of this type were even more heavily protected than their contemporaries. Slab-like ceramite pauldrons housed additional shield generators, although this formidable protection came at the cost of the wearer’s speed, and the trade between agility and survivability meant that this pattern was beginning to decline among some Legions at the outbreak of the Heresy.

Sevatar is likely to get a kit but I think the Atramentar will only get a shoulder pad set if they are lucky.

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, all mentions of the Atramentar are the Night Lord trilogy, Prince of Crows and a little blurb in Sevatar's rules in Massacre.

 

Let me rephrase that better. Those are all of the mentions that I am personally aware. Balthamal might have more since they tie closely with a personal project of his.

[Noctem Cultor]

IIRC, all mentions of the Atramentar are the Night Lord trilogy, Prince of Crows and a little blurb in Sevatar's rules in Massacre.

Let me rephrase that better. Those are all of the mentions that I am personally aware. Balthamal might have more since they tie closely with a personal project of his.

In that case I can see no flaw in your logic with all the information we have nothing contradicts it.

[Kol Saresk]

Oh, everything concerning Zso Sahaal comes from Lord of the Night, if you're interested in going through that as well for your research.

[Noctem Cultor]

Well not everything ADB did a great job of grinding down the Talonmaster (I read Lord of Night first).

 

Now I'm torn for modeling purposes as I said its unlikely we will see an Atramentar kit, but which FW armour set best reflects what we do know?

[Lucien Eilam]

I don't exactly see how that's contradicting me since we have Zso Sahaal stating that he had a company of his own and was apart of the First Company.

 

Where is that? Lord of the Night never uses the term "First Company". Zso Sahaal was a captain with a company before he was First Captain. That doesn't mean he and his company were part of First Company while Sevatar was still alive.

 

Surely it makes more sense that First Company were the Atramentar under Sevatar. The Atramentar wouldn't follow Sahaal, so First Company became something else.

 

Which source describes Night Lords having "companies within companies"? As far as I can see, your interpretation of "sub-captains" forces you to invent an entire organisational structure.

 

Void Stalker uses First Company and Atramentar synonymously too:

 

‘Tell me something,’ he said, his voice less edged now. ‘Why did the First Company refuse to follow Sahaal?’

 

Mercutian drew in air between clenched teeth. ‘I had little chance to speak with any of them. It didn’t seem to be because of any flaw with Sahaal as Sevatar’s replacement, and more due to the fact no one would ever live up to the true First Captain. No one could live up to him. The Atramentar would serve no other leader after Sevatar died; he’d made them into what they were, a brotherhood that couldn’t be broken any other way.’

 

The First Company refused to follow Sahaal. How could that be if at least one company of the First Company were already following him?

[Kol Saresk]

It uses the words "command company" in the same paragraph he says his lightning claws were named Unguis Raptor, or "the Raptor's Claws", which is then followed by an internal monologue on how he single-handedly trained all the of the first Raptors across the Legions. Unfortunately my copy was destroyed in a nice little rain, so I can't provide a page number but if memory serves, the monologue can be found where Zso sahaal is prepping his gear just before leaving the crash site. Chapter 3 I think?

 

Also, that quote does not say the First Company broke. It says the "Atramentar" broke. As established, the Atramentar have only been seen as the Terminator elite who are commanded by Sevatar, not the entirety of the First Company. Unless we assume the Atramentar are the entirety of the First company, but we have nothing that suggests that since even Forgeworld lists the Atramentar as Terminators in his rule "Master of the Atramentar", which reads as follows on page 245 of Massacre:

 

"night Lords Legion Terminator squads and Terminator command squads from the same detachment as Sevatar who Deep Strike will not scatter as long as they are placed within 6" of Sevatar as they deploy."

 

So again, there is currently nothing that disagrees with my theory. You are welcome to have your own theory, but there is nothing to say my theory is currently wrong.

 

We have established fact that Zso Sahaal had a command company as early as when the Raptors were new to the Legions. We have Sevatar saying that he has "sub-captains". Since he is the First Captain, all captains are under his command. Yet those eight(none of which are the Kyoptera captains) are "sub-captains", not just "captains". These captains are directly underneath his command, much as Captain Falkus Kibre was under the direct command of First Captain Sevatar.

 

Also, this tidbit from page 99 of Massacre is what really helps me organize this theory:

 

"Around him the Dark King maintained a court of his most useful sons. The Kyroptera and its members were drawn from senior officers across the Legion and transcended rank. All had a quality that Curze found valuable, though in some cases that quality seems to have been little more than distilled bitterness and cruelty. Membership of the Kyroptera gave no absolute rank, but the fact remained that they were the ruling elite of the Night Lords, and so few others would openly disobey a command from one of them. Alongside these served the Atramentar. A company-strength formation equipped with Terminator armour and armed with the Legion's finest weapons, they were the personal command of the First Captain of the Night Lords and enforcers of order. Renowned for their cold brutality in battle and their unswerving loyalty to their Commander and their Primarch, they seem to have acted as a check on the many fractious elements within the Legion, and though this cannot now be confirmed, it is widely thought that they served as Curze's executioners when the need arose."

 

Preceded by:

 

"The Company was the basic strategic deployment within the Night Lords Legion an each squad belonged to a company which might number anywhere between 100 and 1,000 warriors. Most companies had a title in addition to their numeric designation. The 27th Company were(their names in translation from the Nostraman) "The Shattered Skull", the 104th "Sable Brothers", the 71st "The Crimson Judges" and so on. Unlike many others, the Night Lords used battalions an chapters as semi-permanent grouping of companies, rather than a universal structure favouring their own divisions. This seemingly byzantine complexity masked a surprisingly efficient and flexible approach to warfare which allowed the Legion to operate with a high degree of fluidity and to be readily fractured into autonomous units or combined into ad hoc formations as their master dictated."

 

Both of which are followed by:

 

"Beneath the Kyroptera were the many captains of the companies. The few of these that had been graced with leading several companies under the banner of a battalion or chapter went by a variety of inconsistent ranks including commander, master and regent, amongst others. While these exalted leaders had clear command over the units placed under them, their authority in the Legion as a whole seems to have been more malleable. A regent might have a handful of captains under his command, but might be subject to the commands of a different captain if that captain were of the Kyroptera, or exalted in some other way."

 

So, three things to pull away. 1.)The Atramentar were not the First Company. They were a company of elite Terminators who were directly under the command of Sevatar. 2.)It wasn't uncommon for companies to put into ad hoc formations resembling battalions and chapters. 3.)the titles of these formation commanders could be almost anything, have captains under their command and yet still be "just a captain" to someone else who was higher on the food chain. Who might only be a captain of one company.

 

So. Fluid, confusing and doesn't really do much to invalidate my theory that Sevatar could be First Captain and have direct command over nine companies, eight of which have their own captains, and the whole schibang be called collectively known as "The First Company", since the Night Lords were so into titles.

 

EDIT: Sorry Noctem, but it does look like Forgeworld put the nail that the Atramentar are only Terminators. But that doesn't mean they had to keep that Terminator armor as the Heresy progressed into the Long War. After all, crap happens and sometimes things just can't be fixed.

[Noctem Cultor]

Wasn't expecting so much confliction in opinion, hopefully it will get ironed out in one of the future HH books.

 

Sorry Noctem, but it does look like Forgeworld put the nail that the Atramentar are only Terminators. But that doesn't mean they had to keep that Terminator armor as the Heresy progressed into the Long War. After all, crap happens and sometimes things just can't be fixed.

To be honest that's best case scenario to me. Means I can do a bit of kitbashing and means no ones take on them is really wrong. I think repaired Tartaros Pattern Terminator armour will be my choice. Ill just have to find a nice Lion head to instant mould to go onto the pads.

[Kol Saresk]

Wasn't expecting so much confliction in opinion, hopefully it will get ironed out in one of the future HH books.

Same. Until then, I'd settle for "each their own".

[Brother Heinrich]

"Agree to disagree" is the unofficial motto of the VIII Legion. Our hierarchy is based upon the whims of eccentric psychopaths and twisted criminals. Everything is constantly in a state of flux depending on the who the strongest and most cunning leaders are. Names change, titles are a dime a dozen, and after the Night Haunter bit the bullet our legion went into full-blown meltdown with everyone pretty much doing whatever the hell they wanted to. 

 

I know that may not be the concrete answer you're looking for, but if you want a rigidly pinned-down command structure that's easily laid out then you'd best look to the boys from Ultramar. Basically try to envision having a command structure amongst a bunch of rapists, murderers, thieves, and sociopaths... I think you get the point.

[greendestiny]

Sorry if this is late to the party but you could do some kit bash magic and take the WFB high elf White Lion Shoulder Pad and model it over any other TDA pad.  I think it would look cool.

[Brother Heinrich]

oh yeah I forgot, as far as ideas, here's how I did mine:

 

http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q532/mv8830/Night%20Lords%20II/d8c48c2c-ac5c-4040-82bd-be42a69af5a2_zps23ec97fa.jpg