Deamon Wolf Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Ok so we all agree that 7th Ed Grey Knights lost a lot of things that made them special so I was thinking why do we create a B&C Supliment that is balanced and playable for the Grey Knights what we want is added units with balanced points added war gear with balanced points new HQ's New Relics and new useful wor lord traits I would say lets leave the Lord of War options out fr now we can come back to them later so this Idea is a wishlist for good stuff but needs to be balanced out so people wont mind us using this supliment What do you guys say? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 *Points balancing.* Bro champ needs to be 125pts Crowe needs to be 150pts (unless he get a weapon with an actual ap value) Squads need to be rid of the justicar tax!! Incinerators also need to be 5pts for terminators, because why are they more expensive as relentless makes no difference to an assault flamer. That's all I can currently think of for points balancing. *New HQs* Well it's ridiculous to me that a psyker army doesn't have a powerful psyker character. So give us a mastery level 3/4 psyker with slightly better stats than a regular psyker (extra wound and or bs/ws?) make the guy 200/220pts ish Obviously we all want mordrak back!!! And maybe a named dreadknight? *Wargear* I think our wargear is fine on the troops. But our vehicles lack grey knights flavour. We need dreadknight options for dreadnoughts! I fully believe that our dreads should come with heavy psycannons as STANDARD! This would also make our dreads worth the increased price that they now have. And maybe have the options to upgrade to have a force hammer. Our stormraven needs a heavy psycannon options for the turret, for probably around 20pts, we also need to be able to purchase or swap our missiles for our old ones. Maybe our rhinos could get a normal infantry psycannon upgrade in place of the storm bolter? I'd happily pay 20pts for that. (but that would kinda make assault cannon razorbacks pointless, because you'd be paying loads for twin linked basically) *Relics* Maybe more daemon books with name entries specific to the individual chaos gods? Like Each book (or maybe the 1 book with different options decided before deployment ) has hatred or plus invun or rage or something against certain chaos marked squads? I.e, 'book of purity', the unit or character (not decided yet) may re-roll failed to wound dice whilst in combat with a unit with the mark or nurgle. Then have a different one for khorn and slanesh... ect Probably priced around 25pts. And our warlord traits are fine and make sence in my opinion,(even though they're crap) they are directed at daemons, so if you don't want them directed at daemons choose the ones from the rulebook. *miscellaneous changes* Our grand masters should have 4 wounds, they are basically our version of chapter masters, and they have 4. Obviously ours will be more expensive because they're psykers. So a brother captain gains the normal grand master stats with 1 extra wound for say 35pts? Artificer armour swaps for brother captains. Teleporter for Artificer armour wearing Bro champs and Bro captains, for around 25pts. Relentless for purgation squads!!! Remove knight vision, or allow them to ignore cover with a psychic test (astral aim/witch sight) OR skyfire in place of the above rules. BRING PSYBOLTS BACK! But have it as a psychic power that can be purchased for 10pts a squad or character. Or vehicle. Also the removal of psychic pilot on all vehicles made absolutely no sence. There is literally a psyker piloting or driving.. So bring that back. Even if we gotta pay 5pts for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamon Wolf Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Let leave the current HQ's at their current price Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izekael Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 · Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling God get over it. You can only beat a dead horse so long. Don't like the rules get a new army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830159
Brom MKIV Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I wouldn't be opposed to the community at large creating an errata of what would basically be a fandex if were being honest. The problem is that GW is giving this treatment to everyone so it would need to be across the spectrum otherwise GK players really aren't going to get much sympathy from the masses, especially when players are still winning with the current codex. Its the age of allies. For good or bad thats the fix GW intended and were stuck with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The Grey Knights codex is limited but there are some gems in it. Dreadknights, Purifiers, Librarians, Draigo, cheap Terminators... New wargear and units could work... But why not bring allies? Through dataslate and a cheap online codex you can have the Inquisition and Henchmen and the assassins - both better than they were before. I do understand people wanting all of these elements under a single codex... But how do Assassins, Jokiero and Ordo Xenos Inquisitors fit in with the Gk?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 · Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling God get over it. You can only beat a dead horse so long. Don't like the rules get a new army. I sort of agree. Your dex is far from useless. You complain about reduced unit selection? Eldar only use Serpents and Knights, Tau only use Crisis and Riptides, Necrons spam Barges. Every single dex limits itself to 2-3 units that are great. For you it is the Librarian, TDA, Interceptors and NDK. Sure, you may not be the greatest army around. However, have you noticed a certain trend in the 7ed codecies? Orks? Gutted. Space Wolves... are actually very well off but we lost a lot of cheese like Eternal Warrior wargear that is not unique and other goodies. Dark Eldar? Gutted. Grey Knights? Gutted. This all ties in to the reported new strategy of GW to stop the codex creep. There is even already rumours that Mind Shackle Scarabs will be either gone or made :cuss. It is extremely likely that Necrons will be gutted as well with a simple 1 week release. Eldar and Tau may follow at some point in time. And you also have allies. So no, I do not see a reason to abandon ship. Hell, the new dex compelled me to start GK, something I always wanted. They work so damn well together with SW on so many levels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830334
Gentlemanloser Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 That's by choice. Not being forced to, because you have no other options. Massive difference for Eldar and Tau there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouse83 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 · Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling Hidden by Brother Tyler, October 10, 2014 - Trolling and responses to trolling God get over it. You can only beat a dead horse so long. Don't like the rules get a new army. I started playing GK cause I like the lore, background and general idea behind the army. leave Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830446
Frater Cornelius Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 C'mon guys. Keep it civil, lest you want to invoke the wrath of the moderators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Don't fall for the bait. Just use the report button and let the mods deal with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If you don't like the idea, stay out of it and let those that want to pursue the project conduct their work without disruption. I've removed some posts and edited one other to restore some semblance of peace. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3830491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
treadhead Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Things I'd change Wargear Psy flame and psy bolts ammos back , lose the relic stormbolter down the back of the sofa golden throne , warp stabilisation fields . Psy cannon heavy 4? Falchions +2A. Nemesis warding stave feel no pain for the model? Units Purgation Maybe a choice of usr for the turn (grimnar esque) skyfire, ignores cover and night fighting with a slight points increase to balance and a Land raider (and variants?) as dedicated transport. Dreadnaughts. Added units Bikers 3-6 / 9? Grey Knights bike twin linked stormbolters and nemesis mace (force crozius in effect) or just the regular options For every 3 you can add an attack bike, replace storm bolters with special weapon for xpts GK attack bike twin linked stormbolters, nemesis maces and twin linked special weapon for x pts Justicar gets a teleport homer and melta bombs included in unit cost Psyker mastery level 1 Sanctuary ? Lord of war Land raider spartan with some weapon tweaks? or a Sicaran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't think we need bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'd like to see Dreadnoughts gain access to DreadKnight weapons, and retain the ability to double up on weapons: 2 Heavy Psilencers, or 2 Heavy Psycannons. I'd also like to see Librarian Dreadnoughts, because W T F GeeDub? Why give the Space Vampires Libby Dreads and not give the Space Librarians a Libby Dread?!?!?!? We need a second, cheaper flyer. Don't care which one. Bring Mordrak and Thawn back. We miss them. Give all GKs "Psybolts" by simply making their Stormbolters S5. Allow our vehicles to take Psycannons and Incinerators as upgrades to Assault Cannons and Heavy Flamers. Make Astral Aim useful ... Please! SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Really, these are the basics we need to make us a distinct army in our own right. And not just a "you're gonna get rolled at some point into the 'nilla dex" Ally option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Guys, I don't even think the GK are particularly weak. Do they compare to Eldar and Tau? No Are they as well rounded as Codex:Space Marines and Astra Militarum? No Are they fine when compared to Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Sisters? Absolutely Necrons will be next to get hit with the nerf bat - and Eldar's days in the sun will not last forever. Eventually all codex power levels will be stabilised. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Eventually all codex power levels will be stabilised. We've heard these promises before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Guys, I don't even think the GK are particularly weak. Do they compare to Eldar and Tau? No Are they as well rounded as Codex:Space Marines and Astra Militarum? No That's the definition of weak. If we can't even compete on an even footing with vanilla Marines or AM, we are not competitive. Are they fine when compared to Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Sisters? Absolutely You mean the trashcan armies of 6th and 7th? Nids only get by because of FMC spam and the new Exorcrine, in every other way they got worse. Necrons will be next to get hit with the nerf bat - and Eldar's days in the sun will not last forever. Eventually all codex power levels will be stabilised. People said the same thing in 5th and 6th. It didn't happen. GW will not take away Eldar or Tau's toys, they've made so much money off pumping the power units. Also, game balance? Knight-Titans stomp all over it and are as pushed as they can be. It won't be long before we see super-heavies for other races start to catch up. We are weak. If you wanna pretend otherwise that's your business. But its not the truth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Weaker than 4 out of the 16 or so armies. Certainly not bottom. Let's see how bad Necrons get gimped. They are a popular army and it will give us an indication of what to expect from Future Eldar and Tau releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Getting back on topic, what if our Dreadnoughts had the Mortis rule (or whatever it is) where they can remain stationary and use the Skyfire rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Why not just bring a Fw mortis Dread? A few additions from FW can fill many of the gaps this Army has. Just out of curiosity - do people have adverse feelings to allies? I only recently started my Grey Knights up - but I have a good 2000 point army. It's very easy to make room for Tigarius and Grav centurions for example... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Tiggy + Grav, or SW DPs, solve many problems. For many armies! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurik the blessed Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Personally, the new codex is not so bad. These are my chenges General Rules Strike force Lucerne FOC: 1-2 HQ, 1-3 ELITE, 1-4 TROOP, 0-4 FAST ATTACK, 0-2 HEAVY Psybolt ammo : If you choose this FOC, every unit Storm Bolters gain Strength +1 when succesfull cast FORCE. Strike Force Falchion FOC : 1-3 HQ, 0-3 ELITE, 1-4 TROOP, 0-2 FAST ATTACK, 0-3 HEAVY Warp quake : If you choose this FOC, every enemy unit that enter by deepstrike reserve at 12" from a Troop choice that succesfull cast BANISHMENT, suffer deepstrike mishap. - Brother champions base cost reduced to 100pts. - Librarian stays as same. - Crowe base cost reduced to 150pts. or give him ap3 - Mordrak, 200pts, 4 wounds, Grand Master stats, gives Stealth to unit. (First to the fray warlord trait) - Thawn 100pts, 2 wounds, It will not die special rule. (Paladin stat), mastery level 2, IC - Strike Squad - give them the option to become interceptor by swaping their backpack for a personal teleporter for 4pts (jumpacks are 3pts for SM). (this will give the interceptors, objective secure and would fix the Strike squad) . - Dreadnoughts, base point cost of 100, 25 for a venerable, Acces to Psycannon and Psilencer, give them Interceptor or Skyfire for 20pts. - Purifiers, stays as same. - Paladins, base cost reduced to 50pts - Storm Ravens, stays as same. - Give acces to Storm talons for Fast attack. - Purgation Squad, Purge Soul psyquic power or Slow and purposeful rule. - Rhino and Razorback, Psyquic pilot, Sanctuary. These are my thoughts for now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Nice ideas to bring Psybolts and Warp Quake back. I actually really like the idea of tying Psybolt Ammo to a Psychic Power activation. Force might be a little problematic though, as some units who might get Psybolts might not have a Force Weapon (Vehicles mainly). Might be best just to have it as Wargear that only works with a successful WC1 power cast. Could even have it as a sort of Loth automatic thing. Discard/Spend 1 WC for a unit, and that actives the Psybolts. Removes Perils/Deny rolls, but still stops you using it within a Culexes AoE. Strike Squad - give them the option to become interceptor by swaping their backpack for a personal teleporter for 4pts (jumpacks are 3pts for SM). (this will give the interceptors, objective secure and would fix the Strike squad) In the original leaked playtest dex, Interceptors were just Troop Strikes that bought Personal Teleporters for 6 points each. I think the only reason they split them out was to give us a second Fast attack slot option... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297814-gk-players-needed-to-fix-the-gk-dex/#findComment-3833343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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