Charlo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Hi brothers! It's been a while since I last played (think 4th/5th Edition...) and back then you always wanted your Death Company with jump packs so they could get stuck in as soon as possible, with FNP negating most of the shots that came their way. I see lots of people posting lists with them in transports now, most of which you can't assault out of so I was just wondering what has changed? Would it be worth me taking off the jump packs from my DC and putting them on Assault marines? Come to think of it people tend to like those in transports too nowadays! Basically, what is best in the current meta or just overall more effective for Blood Angels? Charlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 The issue isnt with the jump packs themselves, but the cost of them. For the cost of equiping a DC marine with a jumppack, you could almost buy a second marine. The transports arn't ideal, but 8-9 marines in a pod is generally more effective than 5 marines with jumppacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Ah I see! That makes a lot of sense, as I suppose even if they get shot at upon arrival they won't take too many casualties before they get to unleash hell.What about assault Marines? From what I can tell it is very much a focus on Razorbacks and small special weapon totting squads as opposed to some big jump pack ones charging down the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 What about assault Marines? From what I can tell it is very much a focus on Razorbacks and small special weapon totting squads as opposed to some big jump pack ones charging down the board?Dependiung what else you have in the army and how much cover is on the board, you can make either work. JP ASM hiding behind Baal Predators and a Land Raider (Crusader) seem just as good an idea as razorback spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dallo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I agree with Quixus. The change from assault to shooty is mainly due to the changes from 5th Ed to 7th. Some people still run large assault squads (myself included). Typically a power weapon/fist on the sarge and either dual flamers or meltas on the marines. The hit to furious charge means they hit at the same time as marines, which removed a bit of their potency. That said, they can still work with support, like mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsijben Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It's mostly the cost. Ten DC with JP are about the same price as 2x 8 in a drop pod.. But I expect our new Codex to bring them from 15 to 3 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Current codex, transport without a doubt. I've been running mine in a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer. Next codex, hopefully jump pack again. I miss jump DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stercus Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 There's also the issue that a drop pod can get ten frothing maniacs into close combat at the very opening of the game. Being open topped, you can assault straight upon landing. Jump packs with the best will in the world you're going to lose a few as they close with their targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 There's also the issue that a drop pod can get ten frothing maniacs into close combat at the very opening of the game. Being open topped, you can assault straight upon landing. Jump packs with the best will in the world you're going to lose a few as they close with their targets. You can't assault the turn you arrive from reserve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Being open topped, you can assault straight upon landing.No, they cannot: Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so (even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed) unless the vehicle arrived from Reserve that turn. You do not have the option to leave the unit in the drop pod, when it arrives from reserves via deep strike. Too bad that also limits the options for our deep striking land raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Yes, unfortunately Cronhour is right. The rule prohibiting assaulting the turn you arrive from reserve trumps open-topped. EDIT: I am waiting with baited breath for the new codex. Any price drop -- but certainly one all the way down to three points each (!) -- will certainly have me deploying my Death Company (or at least a squad of them) with jump packs. I already modelled them that way anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Current codex, transport without a doubt. I've been running mine in a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer. Next codex, hopefully jump pack again. I miss jump DC. A Land Raider costs 250pts, Jump Packs for 10 DC cost 150pts. Land Raider protects them from small arms fire, Jump Packs get them into assault more often than foot DC. I don't think it's that clear cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't know, 100 points seems pretty good for the amount of protection that a Land Raider affords. It doesn't just protect from small arms fire, but also from ordinance. A well-placed Imperial Guard Leman Russ pie-plate would ruin a Death Company's day very quickly, especially since even the stock battle cannon is Str 8 so no FNP. But on the other hand you could buy other stuff for 100 points so I hear what you're saying. If that differential expands to 200 points or more -- should speculation about jump pack price reduction prove true -- it will almost be automatic to run them with jump packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If that differential expands to 200 points or more -- should speculation about jump pack price reduction prove true -- it will almost be automatic to run them with jump packs. Assuming the base stats don't change too much. I have this nagging suspicion they'll be changed to A1, just like khornate berserkers. At that point they don't pack quite enough attacks to be a dedicated assault unit and we might be better off podding them with bolters as a pure distraction/tarpit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't know, 100 points seems pretty good for the amount of protection that a Land Raider affords. It doesn't just protect from small arms fire, but also from ordinance. A well-placed Imperial Guard Leman Russ pie-plate would ruin a Death Company's day very quickly, especially since even the stock battle cannon is Str 8 so no FNP. But on the other hand you could buy other stuff for 100 points so I hear what you're saying. If that differential expands to 200 points or more -- should speculation about jump pack price reduction prove true -- it will almost be automatic to run them with jump packs. I think it depends on how you run them. If you run them with a Chaplan/Reclusiarch, I think jump packs win out. You'll always want to get the charge to take advantage of all those re-rolls. Jump Pack ensures you do that more often. A Land Raider will most of the time get you an initial charge, but after that you're either walking or re-embarking the Raider if it's still around. With so many assault units being fast now - Thunderwolves, Imperial Knights, Jump Monstrous Creatures, I think it pays to keep your DC fast if your taking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Awesome, thanks for the insights guys! Coincidentally I have just bought 10 of the lovely DC jump packs from eBay for about £15. And am going to make a fair few assault marines from them and also Beef up my DC numbers if the new codex sorts them out! I had no idea we didn't get the wonderful initiative buff from furious charge anymore. That sucks. I'm getting back into the hobby and this is all great info I have this nagging suspicion they'll be changed to A1, just like khornate berserkers. At that point they don't pack quite enough attacks to be a dedicated assault unit and we might be better off podding them with bolters as a pure distraction/tarpit. I too would be VERY sad if this happens, although I don't think it will, can you imagine the revolts if we lost even more effectiveness from our frothing battle brothers? I think it depends on how you run them. If you run them with a Chaplan/Reclusiarch, I think jump packs win out. You'll always want to get the charge to take advantage of all those re-rolls. Jump Pack ensures you do that more often. A Land Raider will most of the time get you an initial charge, but after that you're either walking or re-embarking the Raider if it's still around. I planed to use Malakim Phoros (who is sadly walking, and also some of the most awesome rules ive ever seen for an IC) with them but this may change and I may just have to use a Reculusiarch/ Lemartes instead if they're jumping around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 If that differential expands to 200 points or more -- should speculation about jump pack price reduction prove true -- it will almost be automatic to run them with jump packs. Assuming the base stats don't change too much. I have this nagging suspicion they'll be changed to A1, just like khornate berserkers. At that point they don't pack quite enough attacks to be a dedicated assault unit and we might be better off podding them with bolters as a pure distraction/tarpit. This I'm worried about, bezerkers have not recovered. I'm still packing deathbolters in a pod, awesome distraction tool esp with a dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorBlack Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I highly doubt DC will go to 1 attack, but if they do, they will definitely become standard to pod with bolters. I don't see them changing much beyond a price decrease on their jump packs. It's also possible they receive a 1-2 points hike to their base cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Nerfs and buffs have been all over the places in recent releases, we'll find out soon enough I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 It's a shame because I really want to get back into the hobby, but I don't want to buy or model anything that will become irrelevant soon!I can only imagine how many people we're upset at the advent of power weapon types (axe + sword operating differently) affecting their lovingly converted models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 It's a shame because I really want to get back into the hobby, but I don't want to buy or model anything that will become irrelevant soon! I can only imagine how many people we're upset at the advent of power weapon types (axe + sword operating differently) affecting their lovingly converted models Yep. My Dante and Astrorath were converted to wield swords, all of my DC had power swords just because I like the look of swords better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Last three games I've used them on foot, with a couple of powerweapons, a fist and some chainsword grunts as cannonfodder. Put 8 of them and a Reclusiarch in a stormraven to keep them safe until needed. It's actually very interesting to see how much havoc these can wreck, especially if they show up a bit later in the game. Last game I used my Baals and my Assault Marines to harrass some wolfguard terminators and thunder cavalry, just forcing a lot of saves to whittle them down before the inevitable charge. Mass charging with 4 units at the same time basically tied my opponent's forces up, and the Death Company went for the Wolf Lord on his mount. Basically evaporated the 2 remaining wolves and the lord as well. Jump Packs I've been a huge fan of in the past, but their horrenduous point costs have kept me from buying them any in the last couple of games. Should the Blood Angels, as I think they're ought to, gain a special rule akin to the Raven Guard chapter tactics regarding jump packs, I'd equip them with jps again. Until that point, footslogging/raving it is. What ever way you want to get them across the board, always, always, use a Chaplain/Reclusiarch. There's no such thing as overkill. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Last three games I've used them on foot, with a couple of powerweapons, a fist and some chainsword grunts as cannonfodder. Put 8 of them and a Reclusiarch in a stormraven to keep them safe until needed. It's actually very interesting to see how much havoc these can wreck, especially if they show up a bit later in the game. Last game I used my Baals and my Assault Marines to harrass some wolfguard terminators and thunder cavalry, just forcing a lot of saves to whittle them down before the inevitable charge. Mass charging with 4 units at the same time basically tied my opponent's forces up, and the Death Company went for the Wolf Lord on his mount. Basically evaporated the 2 remaining wolves and the lord as well. Jump Packs I've been a huge fan of in the past, but their horrenduous point costs have kept me from buying them any in the last couple of games. Should the Blood Angels, as I think they're ought to, gain a special rule akin to the Raven Guard chapter tactics regarding jump packs, I'd equip them with jps again. Until that point, footslogging/raving it is. What ever way you want to get them across the board, always, always, use a Chaplain/Reclusiarch. There's no such thing as overkill. Sounds good! By on foot do you mean jump packs/ transport? Or literally just slogging the difficult terrain? I really hope we get some nice point reductions to bring us in line and then either some reliable furious charge (maybe even sang priests providing the +1I back?) and then something to make Decent of angels a little more enmasse and useful! How are Vanguard assault squads fairing? Assaulting from deep strike sounds very powerful, but I imagine they are very costly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 How are Vanguard assault squads fairing? Assaulting from deep strike sounds very powerful, but I imagine they are very costly! Also interested in this. Seriously thinking about getting a Vanguard squad, hammer on sgt, lightning claws on the other 4. Anyone had positive experiances with these guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 They are 30 pt assault marines with an extra attack. Even when you try to keep the points down they end up insanely expensive. I've tried using both a 5-man with meltabombs or 10-man with minimal upgrades but there's just no way I can justify the cost for such a fragile unit. Even when compared to other overpriced units in our codex (like sanguinary guard or jump DC) they do not stand up well. Something to break out for fun or variety but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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