Frater Cornelius Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 So, you like Tigurius and his reserve shenanigans? Well, too bad! Now is Space Wolf time! *howl* There is a nifty little Formation in the Champions of Fenris book called 'Wolf Guard Void Claws'. They are (at least) 5 Wolf Guard Terminators with pairs of Wolf Claws. So the admission price is 240 points without any hidden cost. They must start in reserve and deep strike during the controlling players first turn. When they do, they may re-roll the Scatter Dice. Here comes the phrase that might interest some of you: "As long as at last one model from this Formation is still alive and on the table, the controlling player can re-roll any Reserve Rolls. There is no limitation that they need to be on the table at the start of the turn. There is also no detachment restrictions. Enter the Nemesis Detachment. Have the Void Claws and an optional HQ that accompanies them arrive first and then every single unit arrive turn one on a re-rollable 3+ (8/9 chance). The Void Claws are no slouches either. They are WS5, S5, AP3, Shred and get 4 attacks each on the charge or counter-charge and the pack leader gets auto-challenges and PE (Characters) while in a challenge. Combine them with Hammerhand and you can cheerfully kiss that Wraithknight good bye. Here is an example list: Librarian • ML3, Warding Staff • Domina Liber Daemonica Librarian • ML3, Warding Staff 5 Grey Knight Terminators • Nemesis Hammer, Psycannon 10 Grey Knight Terminators • 2 Nemesis Hammers, 2 Psycannons 10 Interceptors • 2 Nemesis Hammers, 2 Incinerators Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter Nemesis Dreadknight • Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Teleporter 1850 on the nose. Have the 10 man TDA and Interceptors be combat squads, TDA all deep strike with Librarians while the rest shunts forward and rock out with a lot of psy and guaranteed first turn carnage. You can also do a complete null-deployment if you face an alpha-strike list and are going second. Hm, I think I know what my second army will be :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Aren't all reserves rolled for simultaneously? If so, I don't really think this would work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 Void Claws do not roll for reserves. They arrive automatically. So you can decide to place them first and then roll the other simultaneously. If you had to roll for Claws, then I would agree that it wouldn't work. It is the fact that they do not take part in the rolling is what should allow you to place them first and then start rolling all your reserve rolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 /salute /doff tophat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I really want this to work but I am doubtful. The wording on reserves seems quite clear that you make all reserve rolls before you move any arriving reserves. That the wolfclaws do not need to roll does not alter the fact that they are arriving reserves so you move them onto the table after your turn 1 rolls have been made for everything else. Happy to be proved wrong but I think the turn one rerolls do not work. They still give you good things in a null deploy list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 I will look into it. I have a feeling that this is one of those FAQ cases where you can argue until the eagles choke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I really want this to work but I am doubtful. The wording on reserves seems quite clear that you make all reserve rolls before you move any arriving reserves. That the wolfclaws do not need to roll does not alter the fact that they are arriving reserves so you move them onto the table after your turn 1 rolls have been made for everything else. Happy to be proved wrong but I think the turn one rerolls do not work. They still give you good things in a null deploy list. Yeah, this was more what I was trying to say, but obviously failed at. I will look into it. I have a feeling that this is one of those FAQ cases where you can argue until the eagles choke. From the rulebook, bottom of page 135, "Note that you must first roll for all reserves, and then move any arriving reserves, before any other unit can move." Seems pretty clear cut that all reserve rolls must be made before units arrive from reserves. Sorry, looks like this doesn't help out the NSFD. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3830614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yeah I think IndigoJack has nailed the issue. Any buffs to our Reserves have to be happening before we roll. That's why Tiggy's 'Gift of Prescience' rule works but Void Claws do not (well they work on Turn 2 but they might be dead by then). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3831432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 What if you started them in a land raider or in a storm raven on a sky shield? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3831686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrick Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Never mind... They must start in reserves and DS turn one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3831704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yeah, I had a small discussion and we scoured the rule book for clues and unfortunately you are right, first the rolls are made and then all reserves, the ones you rolled and automatic ones, arrive. Too bad, could've worked :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3832150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Which book has Nemesis Detachment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3834909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Which book has Nemesis Detachment? codex grey knights, 7th edition Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297829-void-claws-nemesis-detachment-profit/#findComment-3834917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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