Krixxus mk1 Assault Rhino

[Grotsmasha]

Hey there ladies and gentlemen, as some of you may have noticed, I've been running a series of Conversion Challenges over the last few years with the current Challenge being Treadheads and Flyboys. This Challenge is all about creating the fluff and stats for a vehicle, and then pyshically building that tank/flyer.

I'm here for some feedback on my entry to the Challenge, specifically in regards to the Stats, pricing and upgrade options.

So here it is,

Looking forward to any comments you all may have.

Cheers,

Jono

[Atia]

sounds awesome, can't wait to see the model =)

[J3f]

That looks great, but it's way undercosted. I'd price it out at 80 points. Also it's not really clear if it's an assault vehicle or not. I'm assuming it is.

[Grotsmasha]

That looks great, but it's way undercosted. I'd price it out at 80 points. Also it's not really clear if it's an assault vehicle or not. I'm assuming it is.

 

Undercosted? Maybe, but 80pts would be overcosted. It's a rhino with 1 extra front armour and 1 extra pintle storm bolter. It looses it side access points and fire points for the other two and is 15pts up on the standard rhino. If you take one upgrade from each section you hit ~110pts, which is two normal upgraded rhinos.

The Repair special is standard for Rhinos, and my special rule Frontal Assault only applies if the appropriate upgrade is bought.

 

Thank you for pointing out I'd left off the Assault Vehicle special Rule, how many point would it be worth? 10points? 

 

Cheers,

Jono

[J3f]

You forgot about +1 rear armour making it immune to assault by anything that isn't Strength 5. Side access points aren't really a loss especially since it gains an assault ramp.

 

I stand by 80 points, assault vehicle special rule included. It should also lose 1 of it's Twin-linked Boltguns, so it's less of a super rhino and more of a rhino kitted out specifically for close combat marines. This will keep it from impinging on the rhino's niche. Rhino rush with shooty marines will still be handled by vanilla rhinos.

 

I'd remove the Frontal Assault special rule and just tie it into the Armoured Frontal Assault Ramp upgrade and change the section to Armoured Forntal Assault Ramp.

 

I wouldn't make the Assault Vehicle special rule an upgrade, I'd make it standard. Otherwise it just becomes an up armoured rhino. 

[Grotsmasha]

 

You forgot about +1 rear armour making it immune to assault by anything that isn't Strength 5. Side access points aren't really a loss especially since it gains an assault ramp.

 

My bad, that ones a typo should still be 10, I'll fix that.

 

I stand by 80 points, assault vehicle special rule included.

 

I don't think we'll ever agree on 80pts, but I do see now that it needs an increase, to account for the Assault Vehicle Special Rule benefits, I'm thinking 65pts.

 

It should also lose 1 of it's Twin-linked Boltguns, so it's less of a super rhino and more of a rhino kitted out specifically for close combat marines. This will keep it from impinging on the rhino's niche. Rhino rush with shooty marines will still be handled by vanilla rhinos.

 

I'm thinking I'll swap-out the T-L Boltguns straight for the flamers as the base-level kit.

 

I'd remove the Frontal Assault special rule and just tie it into the Armoured Frontal Assault Ramp upgrade and change the section to Armoured Forntal Assault Ramp.

 

I wouldn't make the Assault Vehicle special rule an upgrade, I'd make it standard. Otherwise it just becomes an up armoured rhino. 

[TyraelV]

personally, i think it looks good as is. doubly so if it's meant to be great crusade/Horus Heresy era

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Where do the sponson gunners sit? Personally, I think if sponson-mounted weapons are taken, then the transport capacity should be reduced to eight (8), or the Rhino should be "stretched" so there's room for the sponson gunners.

 

Modifying a Rhino so it has a frontal assault ramp, will be a real challenge. You can't just have the Rhino "drive in reverse," as Kenton Kilgore did at www.fightingtigersofveda.com/gallerytran1.html, because how would the vehicle crew see where they're going? And how do you avoid having the dozer blades get in the way, when lowering and raising the ramp? (My solution to the first problem: use plasticard to build a platform atop the crew compartment, and mount the "armored visor" on the platform. My solution to the second problem: get rid of the dozer blade altogether.)

[Grotsmasha]

Where do the sponson gunners sit? Personally, I think if sponson-mounted weapons are taken, then the transport capacity should be reduced to eight (8), or the Rhino should be "stretched" so there's room for the sponson gunners.

 

Modifying a Rhino so it has a frontal assault ramp, will be a real challenge. You can't just have the Rhino "drive in reverse," as Kenton Kilgore did at www.fightingtigersofveda.com/gallerytran1.html, because how would the vehicle crew see where they're going? And how do you avoid having the dozer blades get in the way, when lowering and raising the ramp? (My solution to the first problem: use plasticard to build a platform atop the crew compartment, and mount the "armored visor" on the platform. My solution to the second problem: get rid of the dozer blade altogether.)

 

Problem #1. Servitor in the Sponson.

Problem #2. I've two ideas, one of which *should* work.

Problem #3. No dozer, no problem.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Bjorn Firewalker]

If you wish to continue using this as an assault vehicle, i.e., send it within arms' reach of the enemy, then you might as well reinforce the armor. 13 front, 12 sides, 11 rear (same values as the Predator tank) would help prevent it from becoming an oversized coffin for the precious marines inside. the points cost.

Aesthetically, I wonder if a Leman Russ tank's sponsons will fit on a Rhino chassis? (This will also allow modelers to use the same sponson-mounted weapons as the Leman Russ, e.g., multi-meltas and plasma cannons.) Those look more likely to have room for a gunner-servitor, though field-of-fire may be a problem. Comments from more experienced kitbashers?

[Grotsmasha]

If you wish to continue using this as an assault vehicle, i.e., send it within arms' reach of the enemy, then you might as well reinforce the armor. 13 front, 12 sides, 11 rear (same values as the Predator tank) would help prevent it from becoming an oversized coffin for the precious marines inside. the points cost.

Aesthetically, I wonder if a Leman Russ tank's sponsons will fit on a Rhino chassis? (This will also allow modelers to use the same sponson-mounted weapons as the Leman Russ, e.g., multi-meltas and plasma cannons.) Those look more likely to have room for a gunner-servitor, though field-of-fire may be a problem. Comments from more experienced kitbashers?

Predator Armour stats, that is worth considering......

On the Leman Russ sponsons, you're heading in the right direction ;)

Cheers,

Jono

[Stercus]

My planned entry to the contest incorporates a rhino chassis with hurticane bolter sponsons from the stormraven: shouldn't be hard to chop off the bolters and replace with other weapons. Feel free to pinch the idea if it works.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Stercus: Is the Aurora Pattern Assault Kodiak detailed at www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237494-aurora-pattern-assault-kodiak/ what you're referring to?

[Stercus]

Not quite Bjorn. My idea doesn't feature a transport capacity or assault ramp, its an infantry suppression tank not a transport. I should have a write-up in a day or two. Building the model will take a little longer.

[J3f]

If you wish to continue using this as an assault vehicle, i.e., send it within arms' reach of the enemy, then you might as well reinforce the armor. 13 front, 12 sides, 11 rear (same values as the Predator tank) would help prevent it from becoming an oversized coffin for the precious marines inside. the points cost.

Aesthetically, I wonder if a Leman Russ tank's sponsons will fit on a Rhino chassis? (This will also allow modelers to use the same sponson-mounted weapons as the Leman Russ, e.g., multi-meltas and plasma cannons.) Those look more likely to have room for a gunner-servitor, though field-of-fire may be a problem. Comments from more experienced kitbashers?

All rhinos and rhino chassis vehicles have Rear Armor 10. Also no rhino chassis vehicle has a combined armor value above 34. The Predator is 13 front, 11 side, 10 rear.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I stand corrected on the Predator tank's rear armor. However, I still think it should be reinforced for an assault vehicle, as its duties require it to advance closer to the enemy than most tanks would, making it especially vulnerable to rear attacks. 12 front, 12 sides, 11 rear might be an acceptable compromise- it's a Rhino modified to "drive in reverse," so the rear armor is now the front armor, and vise versa.

[J3f]

I can't buy it being a Rhino that drives in reverse. I'd make it a custom and unique chassis like the Sicaran Battle Tank before I'd make a backwards rhino. I don't see the problem in it having a front assault ramp. 

 

As stated above no rhino chassis vehicle has a combined armor value higher than 34. It should remain 12,11,11 and even that crossing the line on no rear armor above 10.

[Grotsmasha]

Ok guys, I appreciate all of the input and feedback, and as such you guys get first view of the Krixxus. It's missing the Frag Launchers (inbound from the States)

First up, the Updated datafile

3 View

Front

Left

Rear

Right

Cheers,

Jono

[Jolemai]

If you wish to continue using this as an assault vehicle, i.e., send it within arms' reach of the enemy, then you might as well reinforce the armor. 13 front, 12 sides, 11 rear (same values as the Predator tank) would help prevent it from becoming an oversized coffin for the precious marines inside. the points cost.

Aesthetically, I wonder if a Leman Russ tank's sponsons will fit on a Rhino chassis? (This will also allow modelers to use the same sponson-mounted weapons as the Leman Russ, e.g., multi-meltas and plasma cannons.) Those look more likely to have room for a gunner-servitor, though field-of-fire may be a problem. Comments from more experienced kitbashers?

All rhinos and rhino chassis vehicles have Rear Armor 10. Also no rhino chassis vehicle has a combined armor value above 34. The Predator is 13 front, 11 side, 10 rear.

If I may, the Damocles Command Tank from Imperial Armour volume II second edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes has the following armour value: 11/11/11.

[Stercus]

Krixxus looks good. Is it a rhino hull with leman russ tracks?

[Grotsmasha]

Krixxus looks good. Is it a rhino hull with leman russ tracks?

 

Yep, pretty much. The top dome is from a Whirlwind I think.

[Stercus]

It looks good. I can imagine a squad of chainsword toting nutjobs piling out the front all too easily.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Impressive work. With the cupola, the crew can at least see where they're going.

 

I'm hesitant about the way the Leman Russ' tracks are reversed, however. The reason the World War I Mark I heavy tank's treads were shaped the way they were, was to cross trenches; the Leman Russ' tracks presumably imitate the Mark I's for the same reason. If the Krixxus crossed a trench, would the reversed treads plant its forward hull in the trench, immobilizing the tank? (This is one major complaint I have against Games Workshop's designers, specifically regarding their work on the Land Raider.)

[ElectricPaladin]

Straight up - I don't like the model. I think that if you're going to call it a rhino, it should look... like a rhino. I know you used some rhino parts, but the overall profile is not that of a rhino. That said, while the model isn't quite to my taste, personally, I wouldn't object if it wasn't supposed to be a rhino variant. I'd just say "yep, that's a bulky 40kish vehicle - neato." But in the context of this being a rhino variant, I just don't like it.

 

I, er, tried to be as specific as I could in lieu of being positive. I sincerely hope that rounds up to constructive.

[Grotsmasha]

Impressive work. With the cupola, the crew can at least see where they're going.

 

I'm hesitant about the way the Leman Russ' tracks are reversed, however. The reason the World War I Mark I heavy tank's treads were shaped the way they were, was to cross trenches; the Leman Russ' tracks presumably imitate the Mark I's for the same reason. If the Krixxus crossed a trench, would the reversed treads plant its forward hull in the trench, immobilizing the tank? (This is one major complaint I have against Games Workshop's designers, specifically regarding their work on the Land Raider.)

 

Thanks !!!  For more on the tracks, see below.

 

Straight up - I don't like the model. I think that if you're going to call it a rhino, it should look... like a rhino. I know you used some rhino parts, but the overall profile is not that of a rhino. That said, while the model isn't quite to my taste, personally, I wouldn't object if it wasn't supposed to be a rhino variant. I'd just say "yep, that's a bulky 40kish vehicle - neato." But in the context of this being a rhino variant, I just don't like it.

 

I, er, tried to be as specific as I could in lieu of being positive. I sincerely hope that rounds up to constructive.

 

It's not your cuppa' tea and that's ok.

 

As for the Rhino in the name, I've had the idea in my head for this tank for 18 months, and it's original design was two Rhino fronts grafted together. Unfortunately eBay availability and personal finances prevented that, so the Russ tracks were chosen. With the design change, my fluff direction changed. The Krixxus is imagined as a mini Spartan, and shares it's visual profile (kinda).

 

As such, I just hadn't considered that I *should* correct the name.  I don't want to use Assault Transport, nor Assault Tank.....suggestions??