IA13: Dedicated Transport Dreadclaws, and More!

[Lagrath]

I am strongly considering creating a Nurgle-themed Zhufor the Impaler conversion and sticking him in a squad of 40 ia13 plague zombies; he hits at str10 ap 2 and he gives the entire unit counter-attack. If he doesn't get stomped he will take down Knights, and he will wreck thunderwolves in close combat and challenges.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So how much luck have people had with the Sicaran and the Venator? Whilst the latter looks cooler I'm thinking the regular may be better as it's amount of shots could allow it to threaten fliers and armour, thus covering two weakness in my Thousand sons list, thoughts?

[the jeske]

neither fit in to a 1500pts army. at 1850 there are too big of a target and you can spam them or protect them by runing normal preds.

A skyshield based gunline proved to be too static.

[Excessus]

Sicarian here. 6 shots S7 that ignores cover! Those Wave serpents won't know what hit them...

They don't ignore cover. They just don't allow Jink saves.

Well, that's what I meant to write... :)

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

So how much luck have people had with the Sicaran and the Venator? Whilst the latter looks cooler I'm thinking the regular may be better as it's amount of shots could allow it to threaten fliers and armour, thus covering two weakness in my Thousand sons list, thoughts?

 

No venator in IA13, or are you using the downloadable rules?

[Sheesh Mode]

Has anyone else found a significant use for the renegades in IA13? I am having difficulty conceptualizing them alongside my Landraiders. 

[the jeske]

Do you want to use wyverns/etc in your list? yes => renegades ok. no=> not much use.

[Nehekhare]

If it wasn't for the stupid primary detachment prequisites for unlocking certain types of units in both R&H and CSM, the armies would work together nicely.

I can't get rid of that feeling that the guys writing the rules at FW still haven't fully grasped how 7th ed. army selection works.

 

A fluffy servants of decay list with Renegade Zombies and allied Plague Marine troops must not be allowed I guess.

 

Personally, I'd rather want to combine a Tzeentchian Arch-demagogue with a Slaaneshi CSM Lord, though.

 

Has anyone figured out yet why Renegade spawn are in the elites section? I still hope that the remark about the master of renegades is a misprint and they can be chosen as elites even without renegade warlords.

 

Also, as R&H count as "identical to CSM" for ally matrix purposes, is there an argument to be made for them to be able to take any and all of the other units in the book that have a CSM stamp?

[Cheex]

Also, as R&H count as "identical to CSM" for ally matrix purposes, is there an argument to be made for them to be able to take any and all of the other units in the book that have a CSM stamp?

They aren't part of the CSM Faction, so you can't take the IA13 CSM vehicles any more than you can take Chaos Lords as part of your CAD.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

 

So how much luck have people had with the Sicaran and the Venator? Whilst the latter looks cooler I'm thinking the regular may be better as it's amount of shots could allow it to threaten fliers and armour, thus covering two weakness in my Thousand sons list, thoughts?

 

No venator in IA13, or are you using the downloadable rules?

 

That is a shame... What is it with chaos getting only the most basic versions of tanks they previously had and not getting anything in return?

Guess the regular Sicararan is good, just really like the look of the Venator.

[Iron_Within]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to sell something like the Venator and not make it available to as many players as possible (without diluting the IP, no Eldar you can't have it... unless you take allies, blast!).

[Kilofix]

Has anyone else found a significant use for the renegades in IA13? I am having difficulty conceptualizing them alongside my Landraiders. 

 

• Better Cultist screen
• Cheap Deep Striking Melta & Hotshot Vets (Chaos Storm Troopers!)
• Chaos Basilisk, Wyvern, Colossus & Medusa
• Chaos Marines in Chimeras
• Chaos Ogryn (S5, T5, Rampage & FnP!) in Land Raiders
• Chaos Hellhound variants (Torrent or Poison AP3?)
• Outflanking Chaos Sentinels with Flamer or Multiple Rocket Pod!
• Chaos Valkyries with Marines!
• Chaos Leman Russ Eradicator & Punisher

[Tenebris]

I think I will take upon the options provided by the books and at long last have a reason to include the Beastmen in my warband. With the Mutant Lord we have the option for a cheap screen of bodies as well as for an unprecedented reason to go wild with kitbashing (though I would use the beastmen for this). Now with Talon of Horus providing me even with a lore precedent (Tzaangor slaves of the Sorcerers of the Thousand Sons) I am inclined to start with this project.

 

In terms of gameplay I find the addition of the Wyvern to a Battle Brothers Chaos list great news. I have seen this weapon platform tear my troops to pieces in a number of games and I am willing to return the favor, same as I plan to drown my adversary in cheap mutant scum. 

 

All in all IA 13 is a great addition to Team Chaos for we really needed some serious firepower here and there. The options are good, the potential for models unlimited and the big guns are sweet too... Renegades are awesome! Thanks FW. 

[King Jackal]

 

Has anyone else found a significant use for the renegades in IA13? I am having difficulty conceptualizing them alongside my Landraiders.

 

 

• Better Cultist screen
• Cheap Deep Striking Melta & Hotshot Vets (Chaos Storm Troopers!)
• Chaos Basilisk, Wyvern, Colossus & Medusa
• Chaos Marines in Chimeras
• Chaos Ogryn (S5, T5, Rampage & FnP!) in Land Raiders
• Chaos Hellhound variants (Torrent or Poison AP3?)
• Outflanking Chaos Sentinels with Flamer or Multiple Rocket Pod!
• Chaos Valkyries with Marines!
• Chaos Leman Russ Eradicator & Punisher

Agreed with all this, plus there has to be some cross detachment IC combinations.. Enforcers with Combat Stims in Berzerkers etc

[Kilofix]

 

 

Has anyone else found a significant use for the renegades in IA13? I am having difficulty conceptualizing them alongside my Landraiders.

 

• Better Cultist screen
• Cheap Deep Striking Melta & Hotshot Vets (Chaos Storm Troopers!)
• Chaos Basilisk, Wyvern, Colossus & Medusa
• Chaos Marines in Chimeras
• Chaos Ogryn (S5, T5, Rampage & FnP!) in Land Raiders
• Chaos Hellhound variants (Torrent or Poison AP3?)
• Outflanking Chaos Sentinels with Flamer or Multiple Rocket Pod!
• Chaos Valkyries with Marines!
• Chaos Leman Russ Eradicator & Punisher

Agreed with all this, plus there has to be some cross detachment IC combinations.. Enforcers with Combat Stims in Berzerkers etc

 

 

Yeah like:

• Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch in Chimera
• Cypher (Hit & Run) with Nurgle Ogryns (HoW)
• Crimson Slaughter Apostle with Mutants

[Nehekhare]

Now that's a little bit of an euphoric overreaction...

 

 

• Better Cultist screen true, although you still have to take the worse cultists to fill CSM troops
• Cheap Deep Striking Melta & Hotshot Vets (Chaos Storm Troopers!) overpriced and not enough melta per squad
• Chaos Basilisk, Wyvern, Colossus & Medusa true, and the colossus is even better at S8
• Chaos Marines in Chimeras meh. why do you think no loyalist marine army does this? Also, chimaeras are dedicated transports only, so not able to hold other troops at deployment
• Chaos Ogryn (S5, T5, Rampage & FnP!) in Land Raiders hilariously overpriced and it isn't even good
• Chaos Hellhound variants (Torrent or Poison AP3?) worse than a heldrake
• Outflanking Chaos Sentinels with Flamer or Multiple Rocket Pod! sorry, but our sentinels don't get outflank
• Chaos Valkyries with Marines! Vendettas would have been an option
• Chaos Leman Russ Eradicator & Punisher those are only good in an AM army because you get them with BS4 and as HQ

 

 

when it's not better than the loyalist version, don't bother to mention it. They get PotMS, ATSKNF and orders with it.

 

 

 

cross detachment IC combinations.. Enforcers with Combat Stims in Berzerkers etc

Enforcers are not ICs = only able to join certain Renegade units at deployment. Also, Berzerkers already got rage...

 

 

Yeah like:

• Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch in Chimera dedicated transport only (see above).
• Cypher (Hit & Run) with Nurgle Ogryns (HoW) see above
• Crimson Slaughter Apostle with Mutants true, also MoKhorne + Covenant of Khorne because you won't ever get the charge

[King Jackal]

<p><p><p>Now that's a little bit of an euphoric overreaction...

<p><p><p>

• Better Cultist screen 1. true, although you still have to take the worse cultists to fill CSM troops
• Cheap Deep Striking Melta & Hotshot Vets (Chaos Storm Troopers!) 2. overpriced and not enough melta per squad
• Chaos Basilisk, Wyvern, Colossus & Medusa true, and the colossus is even better at S8
• Chaos Marines in Chimeras meh. why do you think no loyalist marine army does this? Also, chimaeras are dedicated transports only, so not able to hold other troops at deployment
• Chaos Ogryn (S5, T5, Rampage & FnP!) in Land Raiders hilariously overpriced and it isn't even good
• Chaos Hellhound variants (Torrent or Poison AP3?) worse than a heldrake
• Outflanking Chaos Sentinels with Flamer or Multiple Rocket Pod! sorry, but our sentinels don't get outflank
• Chaos Valkyries with Marines! Vendettas would have been an option
• Chaos Leman Russ Eradicator & Punisher those are only good in an AM army because you get them with BS4 and as HQ

3. when it's not better than the loyalist version, don't bother to mention it. They get PotMS, ATSKNF and orders with it.

 

cross detachment IC combinations.. Enforcers with Combat Stims in Berzerkers etc4. Enforcers are not ICs = only able to join certain Renegade units at deployment. Also, Berzerkers already got rage...

Yeah like:

• Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch in Chimera dedicated transport only (see above).
• Cypher (Hit & Run) with Nurgle Ogryns (HoW) see above
• Crimson Slaughter Apostle with Mutants true, also MoKhorne + Covenant of Khorne because you won't ever get the charge

1. Unbound, Chosen, Possessed are all options instead of just taking 'worse cultists' - although I probably still would

2. Who cares, it's what we have. It's not overpriced when you consider the amount of divination/biomancy/telepathy we can throw on them compared to loyalists

3. This mindset is frustrating to me. Adapt or Die.

4. Uh apologies, I mean Arch Demagogue with Covenant of Khorne in Berzerkers.

[the jeske]

2. Who cares, it's what we have. It's not overpriced when you consider the amount of divination/biomancy/telepathy we can throw on them compared to loyalists

 

 

Why would you ever bother to cast anything on the cultists. you would need to have 18+powe dice and at least 4 sources to cast the buffs from.

 

3. This mindset is frustrating to me. Adapt or Die.

 

 

To what. You do know you could take the same units play an imperial faction with IG and SW, and get the same game play , better rules[atknf, potms, order,etc] , more synergy , less list building problems[doesn't matter what is primary, no problems with demons being unable to join stuff or marks stoping one HQ from joining another unit etc] for over all less points.

If this was a strickte adapatation problem the best way to deal with it would be to not play chaos. And I doubt you want that for people here.

[King Jackal]

 

2. Who cares, it's what we have. It's not overpriced when you consider the amount of divination/biomancy/telepathy we can throw on them compared to loyalists

 

Why would you ever bother to cast anything on the cultists. you would need to have 18+powe dice and at least 4 sources to cast the buffs from.

 

 

3. This mindset is frustrating to me. Adapt or Die.

 

To what. You do know you could take the same units play an imperial faction with IG and SW, and get the same game play , better rules[atknf, potms, order,etc] , more synergy , less list building problems[doesn't matter what is primary, no problems with demons being unable to join stuff or marks stoping one HQ from joining another unit etc] for over all less points.

If this was a strickte adapatation problem the best way to deal with it would be to not play chaos. And I doubt you want that for people here.

I didn't say anything about casting powers on cultists? I was talking about Veteran Grenadiers with Hot Shot Las.

 

But you can't see a point to having prescience, forewarning, foreboding on 30 cultists? Really?

 

I'm not sure I understand your second point? If I wanted to play SW and AM then I would but I don't, so I won't.

[Sheesh Mode]

Remember folks: we are a close combat army. 

[Kilofix]

Admittedly, IA:13 doesn't bring us an uber competitive build.

 

But some of us are in it for the theme, and we were previously running Renegades anyway with like IG or SoV rules; and either running into One Eye Open or being unable to field newer stuff like Wyverns.

 

Are Ogryns in Land Raiders cost effective and better than loyalist versions? Not at all...

 

But, even if just for seeing a 'proper' mis-matched Renegades & Heretics list on the table; at least I CAN now field Chaos Ogryns in Chaos Land Raiders, alongside Chaos Wyverns, Chaos Marines, Chaos Mutants, and a crazy Arch-Demagogue at the head, etc.

 

To an old Renegade & Heretic, that's enough.

 

[Castellan Cato]

Well said Kilo.

 

R&H does not a competitive list make. Its not the new OP.  Its barely an army list considering no armoury or special characters.  And the list lacks mobility even more than the new C:AM.

 

However the list is good at putting an unprecedented number of bodies on the table.  Thought Tyhpus + plague zombies was bad? Renegades are considerably cheaper per model and no Typhus tax. Plus they can take the artillery to back them up that CSM cannot.

 

Artillery.  Its cheap.  Super cheap.  Can't hit the broadside of a barn, but throw enough pie plates and you have to hit something.  Maybe your own guys.  They were 3 ppm. Who cares.

 

They gave us a tool to make super fluffy lists and did a pretty good job of capturing the feel of a renengade IMO.  The warlord restrictions are unnecessary and tedious, but its not the worst.  Random leadership can be mitigated.  I'm really excited to get some heretic boots on the battlefield.

[incinerator950]

Remember folks: we are a close combat army.

And we're not that good at it unless the opponent is playing to your strengths or isn't power gaming.

[Iron_Within]

The fact that I can take a bucket of artillery and  flesh to choke the enemy with and expend with absolute callousness makes this Iron Warrior proud. 

 

My Iron Warriors will take the glory, my slaves will take the death the enemy dish out.

 

Also 15 pie plates a turn at less than a baneblade doesn't sound bad at all. Part of me thinks "Lets just carpet bomb the damned battlefield". That's before sticking CSM FP and CC power into the mix. 10 Griffons might get people annoyed at you, 10 Wyverns might get you killed for real, with that many hits eventually even Terminators and Broadsides will start failing saves.

[Nehekhare]

 

This mindset is frustrating to me. Adapt or Die.

 

Look: it doesn't help anybody if we ignore the facts and act like the stuff is more than it really is. There are some good things, there are some stupid things and lots of meh in between. However, regardless of the rules, I have lots of fun with the list, because:

 

I can take a bucket of artillery and  flesh to choke the enemy with

 

oh so much this. I almost want to bombard my own mutant rabble, just for the look on the other guy's face, thinking: "Why would he even do this? What have they ever done to him?"