GrandMagnus Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Sorry for the title, it might be misleading, but I wasnt sure how to put it. My question is, when did the word bearers start to adorn their armour with chaotic symbols, stuff such as the 8-pointed star, horns, arrow-heads and the like? If I recall correctly in Know No Fear they mention some WB with horns made out of brass or some other material i cant recall (ebony maybe?). I personally think that chaos marines didnt go full chaotic until they entered the Eye of Terror, which is to say they where still human and their armour was still "normal", but to what extend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well you did have the Gal Vorbak before the Heresy even broke out, so I'd say most of the legion was still un-warped aside from them until the scouring. This isn't to say that they weren't performing rituals and using chaos before then however. Most of the HH novels that deal with them talk about their use of ritual, sacrifice, and daemonic symbology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLats_McGee Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Know no Fear describes Calth Word Bearers as having horns, mutations and arrows on their armour. By this stage they looked a LOT like your 40k chaos space marines. The actual turning to Chaos started pretty soon after the Emperor rebuked the legion at Khur. Erebus and Kor Phaeron had always been Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 The Word Bearers began their transition 40 years before the Heresy began. Technically speaking, the Legion as a whole became fully devoted to Chaos whenever the Legion was purged of all resisting elements. But it wouldn't be until Calth and the Shadow Crusade, one year after Istvaan V, that they would actually reveal the totality of their corruption as they mass-produced the Gal Vorbak and orchestrate planet-wide sacrifices across one hundred worlds just to create the Ruinstorm and fuel Angron's ascension. And it only gets worse from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well, FW has this image planned for a book so I guess around Shadow Crusade they start to go all spiky. http://i.imgur.com/iblusTs.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 HOLY :CUSS ! Sorry, that guy just so... so awesome. Okay, so as far as I can see it would be acceptable to make a late-heresy (terra) or scouring force using and adding bits of daemonic imagery to the word bearers. Also, if its late-heresy/scouring how acceptable would it be to include a few bits from the MK VI and VII to an army? As far as I know the renegades got the MKVI patter from Mars right before the siege of Terra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The only forces that have been seen with the Mk VI currently are the Raven Guard and the Alpha Legion. The Raven Guard were the ones who tested the original prototype as well being the Legion that Imperial Fists gave all of the Mk VI they had seized from Mars(up to that point) following Istvaan V. The Alpha Legion had at some point prior obtained the designs for the prototype and then began designing their own unique variant in parallel to the mainstream Corvus Pattern Armor. So, strictly background wise, Mk VI wouldn't begin to filter in amongst the Traitors until mid to late Heresy when the Legions began to start salvaging power armor due to lack of resources. So a mid/late Heresy force would reasonably have some Mk VI scattered about, especially if they have had conflicts with the Raven Guard. As for the Mk VII, that wouldn't start popping up until around the time of the Siege of Terra. Reason being is that work and development on the Mk VII only began after the Heresy began and Mars had been cut off. The Mk VII began as a result by the Defenders of Terra to try and defend themselves better against the inevitable Siege. As a result, it was limited only to the defenders of the Imperial Palace until after the Siege. That said, Forgeworld has provided pictures of Mk IV variant helms, such as the infamous Sarum-pattern in Betrayal, which bear a very strong resemblance to the Mk VII type. So theoretically, in a pre-Siege army, a Mk VII helm could simply be a Mk IV variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I suppose the MKVIII legs could be considered a MKIV variant. They are very similar, the only main diference would be the cod-piece (which could be easily greenstuffed) and the kneepads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I guess if Raven Guard were wearing it at Isstvan, then any traitor legionaries could have some reconditioned Mk.6 post dropsite massacre. Tech thralls can hose out the raven guard blood and put a fresh lick of paint on in the new colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The Raven Guard didn't get it until after Istvaan though. They tested it before that, but all the prototypes were supposed to have been returned IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I doubt the average player would know that, I didn't. I say if you like the look of the armour go for it. I'm sure one could make up a semi-plausable reason for a couple suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Could have faced off against Alpha Legion too and looted the "Mk VI" armours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Well, I guess in the end the most important rule is the rule of cool. And since the suits of power armour have no individual characteristics game-wise it shouldnt really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Exactly. That's why I said "strictly background wise", because that is really the only thing that restricts you. For example, I believe Doghouse currently has a WIP thread where he is making Word Bearers in Mk VI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 That charming gentleman pictured above (who I suspect is an apostle) could well be from Calth. It was important for the legion to maintain a facade of normality in their initial deployment there (what with pulling a fast one on the Ultramarines and all) but the gloves came off entirely after the backstab. The guys who would have ruined the illusion would have been carefully kept out of sight during the first phase, but they were around. Once you hit the shadow crusade, there's no illusion to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Oh, which brings another question to mind. When did they change the burning book symbol for the daemon skull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 After Calth, I think, but we'll have that answered definitively in the upcoming FW books (which have art for WB with daemon skulls) There was no mention of it in Know No Fear, and the Ultramarines sure as hell would have noticed a change of legion symbol - they were shocked enough as it was by the colour change. My guess is they adopted it for the shadow crusade. I hope we get left wiggle room for hosts keeping the book, personally, because I've never liked the fiery daemonface, but I'll work with what we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It was a gradual process which took around 50 years to come to fruition. As the legion went deeper and deeper in Chaos lore and rituals, as it elaborated a form of worship of the Chaos Gods it slowly become immersed in the iconography of the "traitor". Remember, any Word Bearer worth his salt is a walking shrine to the Dark Gods. Imagine that it begun with a trophy, with some ritual scarification and acid etching or inscription and slowly, and gradually became an elaborate and visual form of worship. By Calth we have effectively the look of the Chaos Space Marine spread across the traitor legions and already the first forms of mutation are apparent. Consider a Word Bearer 40 years before the Horus Heresy the "Alpha" stage on their process to become a Chaos Space Marine. By the time of Calth and the Shadow Crusade the Word Bearer in question is in the "Beta" stage on his path to become a CSM. A Word Bearer after Terra is a Chaos Space Marine version 1.0, a Word Bearer in M41 is a Chaos Space Marine version 2.8 with three DLC and several official and unofficial patches as well as community mods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Heh. You mean 1.7, the last two patches have caused more stability crashes than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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