Starting with IG - various questions

[Rabenfeder]

Hey there,

 

I want to create a small Imperial Guard army over the next few months or years. For infantry, I want to use these models: http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/products/arcadian-guard?pagesize=12

 

1) Does someone have some experience regarding victoria models and special weapons? If yes, how did you do the conversion?

2) Are veterans with 3x sniper rifles any good? 3x melter or 3x plasma is probably the most effective variant, but it's style first for me. I just want to know if you can field sniper veterans and give them any real purpose.

3) How good are mobile infantry lists? I thought about starting my army with 3x chimaeras, a command squad (special weapons?) and two vet squads (special weapons?). I'd expand on that with plasma sentinels, various Leman Russ, more Vets in chimaeras, Hydras (love the models)... is that plan any good?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Rabenfeder

[elmo]

Hi Rabenfeder and welcome to the Guard...

 

I have heard only good things about Victoria Miniatures but have not had any myself. Coincidently, I was also recently looking at the female "Cadians" as an addition for mine.

 

Unfortunately, as the 711th CCAB are yet to be deployed in the cauldron of battle, I can't offer any army building tips but you have come to the right place for advice and I am sure it will soon follow form our more experienced members.

[Vash]

Welcome to the world of Astra Militarum!

 

For your first question I have no answer really. But Victoria Lamb is a golden demon winner and a great artist. So they should be of good quality. 

 

Veterans with sniper rifles, not really the best option. This due to the fact that you will have 7 other guys not in the same line of purpose. There are better units suited for sniper duty. There are ratlings who will be cheaper per mode (since we need to calculate the fact that the rest of the Veterans unit is not going to "sniping"). You don't need to use Ratling models for this. Just make sure you opponent knows what they are. 

Also, command squads can have 4 special weapons. Only the commander will be without a special weapon. This could work, and I have done it my self. Commander issues orders, and the veterans in his unit becomes snipers. A pure support unit. 

 

Mechanised Astra Militarum is one of the more effective play styles. You will find that most armies can't handle to much vehicles. So if you spam vehicles they can't deal with it all and will in many cases be pushed back. 

[Grotsmasha]

Having had a good look at the arms, some of them will be next to impossible to convert and others very fiddly to get to stay together and aligned. My best recommendation would be to use Cadian arms and very carefully trim off the shoulder pad so that they don't stand out.

 

Cheers,

Jono 

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard, what a entrance to make too! We were only recently talking about how good the Victoria stuff is. Unfortunately I've yet to get any but I agree with Grotsmasha in that converting some for GW's special weapons looks like it might be a bit tricky.

 

Sniper Veterans will be a cheap way to hold an objective and try their luck at picking off special models, but they'll not be competing for the MVU award any time soon. As long as you have other squads with more effective builds they can have a place :) As for mechanised infantry it is an effective way to run an army, especially if you want to use Veterans :tu:

 

Have you thought about a colour scheme yet? I'll be very keen to see some Arcadians painted up! :D

[Sviar]

Welcome to the Guard.

 

I have no experience with Victoria minis, so I can't help you there.

 

If you want to use snipers may I suggest Ratlings. To answer your question: I'd equip Melta guns and Plasma guns on my Vets over the sniper rifles.

 

A Chimera is a good way to hold a Guardsman alive longer then usuall. Unless you put a Hellhammer or a squadron of Russes near it, Then I'll think the lonely squad will survive that turn at least. The thing I love about Sentinels are that they could go into CC (close combat). Thanks to a post WarriorFish made (late 2012 I believe)  pointing that out(I had missed it completelly). I then won a game when my two Sentinells assaulted a single marine still standing after my shooting phase. Forcing my opponent out of the objetive. I only use Scout Sentinals so I can surprise the opponent on his/her half of the board. 

[Cap'm Heckus]

I've used a few Victoria minis bits.  Love the praetorian heads and I've used her legs and torsos.  Havent tried the weapons yet.

 

Veterans with 3 sniper rifles have worked well for me as objective holders.  I usually stick a missile launcher or Autocannon in the squad as well as the forward observer option (yay camo cloaks).

[Rabenfeder]

Hey there,

thanks a lot for all those answers! I had some time in the train today and started plotting some background for the army which will probably help me picking some fitting units. So far I've got some weird mixture of agriculture, a feudal system and city states...

Veterans with sniper rifles, not really the best option. This due to the fact that you will have 7 other guys not in the same line of purpose. There are better units suited for sniper duty. There are ratlings who will be cheaper per mode (since we need to calculate the fact that the rest of the Veterans unit is not going to "sniping"). You don't need to use Ratling models for this. Just make sure you opponent knows what they are.

Also, command squads can have 4 special weapons. Only the commander will be without a special weapon. This could work, and I have done it my self. Commander issues orders, and the veterans in his unit becomes snipers. A pure support unit.

Even though I think it's perfectly fine, I don't want to use humans as ratlings (and I don't want to field ratlings for sure :D). I know that vets with sniper rifles aren't really optimal, I'd be fine with them being playable, though. Fit's my army's fluff.

Isn't the problem with a sniping command squad in a mobile army that noone's in range for the command squad's orders?

Having had a good look at the arms, some of them will be next to impossible to convert and others very fiddly to get to stay together and aligned. My best recommendation would be to use Cadian arms and very carefully trim off the shoulder pad so that they don't stand out.

Cheers,

Jono

Yeah I think it'll be kinda difficult, the rifles being connected to the hands and all. If I'd want some snipers, I'd probably have to scratch most of the rifle away, using a pin to glue the new rifle to the other hand and fill any spaces with green stuff... but the sniper rifle may be too long for this. Don't think I could just extend the barrel, too thin. I think this mess is better than using the cadian arms, though - they've got similar problems and this horrible "heroic" scale I really dislike. Wouldn't fit the Victoria miniatures, at least not the female bodies.

Have you thought about a colour scheme yet? I'll be very keen to see some Arcadians painted up!

No final decision. May go with dark brown cloth and olive/grey vests/weapons/armor.

I may start with 2 vets, 1 command squad, 7 melters (there are Victoria miniatures arms for those, I think) and 3 sniper rifles as well as 3 chimaeras. This alone will take some time. I think the option to use sniper vets as objective defenders is promising.

Some further questions: (:

1) Do you any possible models for psyker and officers fitting the Victoria miniatures style?

2) Do you know where I can get 28mm scale backpipes (not to be hold in hands but for the back of a model)? ... fluff reasons :D

3) What's the best way to display a harvested corn field on my infantry's bases? Thought about using small brush pieces as corn stubbles, but I'm unsure about mud/earth/dirt.

Thanks a lot guys, you're really helping me developing this project.

Cheers

Rabenfeder

[WarriorFish]

Looks like you're already shaping up an interesting background, keep us posted :tu: As for your questions I'm afraid I can't offer much help. Psykers can look like pretty much anything you want, so you shouldn't feel like you need to match the Arcadian appearance - the GW models don't match any particular army. I know Victoria does some bagpipes as part of the command set, but I've no idea where you could get some to put on a back - or if they even exist! Though I imagine it should be a pretty easy thing to create yourself from a blob of green stuff and some little piping.

 

Small brush bits would be a great way to do stalks, but I'd look for an alternate cheaper source than brushes! It's a great idea though and mud is easy, you can use some modelling sand and paint it up, or mix some bits to create a textured paint like the ones GW sells.

[Rabenfeder]

Hey there, I've got one (maybe last (; ) question about my HQ choice:

I don't think I like the idea of the commanding officer running meltagun's blazing to the biggest enemy possible to die one round later, even if quite effective. But I fail to see decent alternatives.

 

i) More snipers! Hurr. 

ii) Naked HQ with a heavy weapon, firing out of the chimaera. Not really engaging and somehow defies my first idea of no-heavy-weaponry.

iii) ???

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

Rabe

[WarriorFish]

Snipers aren't a bad CCS weapon I reckon - cheap but they have potential to do some good at BS4 especially if you throw an order on top. I keep my CCS low cost as they're there to issue orders and survive, so there's nothing stopping you just giving them a vox for example. Aside from keeping them cheap yet still effective it also reduces their apparent threat so they might attract less attention.

[Commander_Moustache]

I use my worlord command squad with a mortar and hide it out of sight. He very rarely dies and order my backfeild units to be more effective (hello earthshaker carrage).

 

As for doing wheat feilds on the base, try useing bits of a thick welcome mat (used to have squars of it round an old club I used to go to) and mud is easy to do with gw texture paints I find

[scatmandoo]

For a sniper unit, I use a SWS with 3 snipers as they effectively have 3 spotters too and roll in at the very cheap 36 points.

 

If not a PCS would work too as you will have a commander and 4 snipers that have troop secured and don't waste the valuable BS4.

 

Unfortunately now snipers don't even have pinning they have lost a lot of their effectiveness.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, it's a bit rubbish but after all the downgrades sniper weapons are surely due a boost in 8th Edition... fortunately they're cheap so all it takes is for them to take out a special weapon for example and they can make a difference :)

[Rabenfeder]

Yeah, the german forums (GWFW) really dislike snipers. But hey, fluff beats effectiveness for me... I guess.

While I see other options for later iterations of the CCS, it may be worthwile to keep it cheap on low poins - don't want it to be that good of a target. Some heavy weapon may go well with that idea of shouting orders to the next guardsman available, but that's not what'd really match the style of the other part of the list. Therefore it's time to go naked. Maaaybe...

---------- HQ (1) ----------

Company Command Squad (125 points)
- 4x Lasgun
- Company Commander (Laspistol, Close combat weapon)
- Chimera (Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter)

---------- Troops (2) ----------

Veteran Squad (155 points)
- 6x Lasgun
- Veteran Sergeant (Laspistol, Close combat weapon)
- 3x Special Weapon (3x Meltagun)
- Chimera (Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer)

Veteran Squad (146 points)
- 6x Lasgun
- Veteran Sergeant (Laspistol, Close combat weapon)
- 3x Special Weapon (3x Sniper Rifle)
- Chimera (Multi-Laser, Heavy Bolter, Camo Netting)

---------- Heavy Support (1) ----------

Hydra Battery (70 points)
- Hydra (Heavy Bolter)

______________________________________________
496 points


A mixture of ineffective weapons and unusual (read: ineffective ) choices! Nonetheless, it's four vehicles with 12 armor at 500 points. CSS will shout at itself or the sniper vets if necessary (or possible, as they most likely aren't in range...), melta vets will go after big stuff. Sniper squad will look for a reason to be around at all, maybe holding some cover with the camo chimaera or driving around eating objectives. There's no good reason for the Hydra other than I really love the model.

Possible changes:

> heavy weapon for the HQ, but well...

> double melter for the HQ to drive around with them. But then I can't show off the models...

> Sentinels instead of the Hydra

> Sniper-HQ, second melta vets

> Drop camo netting on the chimaera, so there's 19 free poins in the list for... something?

Maybe it's because I'm tired, but I like what I see in this list. Thanks for the help so far, got any comments on this idea?


Rabe

[WarriorFish]

I don't think a Hydra is a great choice at 500pts, you won't be up against too many flyers or skimmers! I'd go with Sentinels instead, having the CCS as snipers is probably a better idea too, let your Vets go forth and melta or plasma things. Definitely a good core to a list though :)

[scatmandoo]

I would give the sniper vets a hb/ac team, camo cloaks and leave them in the backfield. Take away the chimera and mmabe combine the points for that and the hydra for a russ or a pair of sentinels or evwn a hound varient.

 

I would have the ccs utilise the orders on the charge with melta/plasma backing up the vet squad.

[march10k]

I saw some of Victoria's stuff at adepticon...it's very nicely sculpted, but the models are too scrawny for my liking...like they're all 5'11" tall and 120lbs.

 

Mech guard is amazingly good.  For the points cost, you can't do better than a chimera with multilaser/heavy bolter...six heavy shots behind AV12, and it can do that while camping an objective as a superscorer?  Oh, and with a heavy weapons team (veteran squad...for the BS4) firing from the hatch, too?  Sign me up for that!  

 

Then you've got a leman russ variant for every purpose, I never leave home without a pair of demolishers!

 

I prefer Pask as my HQ, he's just less squishy than a company command squad, and since you can only fire two models from the hatch of a chimera, running a CCS with 4 special weapons in a mechanized list is kind of bad...not to mention that there will almost never be any infantry on the ground for your commander to order around!

 

Armored sentinels are really good for the points cost but I would stay away from plasma and stuff...autocannons are the way to go!

 

Hellhounds are really good, the other two variants are okay, too.

 

Lastly, wyverns...I hate them with a passion because they're embarrassingly overpowered, the model is an ugly "see what else we can squeeze into the hydra kit" piece of garbage, and they took the place of my beloved griffons in the new codex...but you should try them out...a pair of them will generally remove the enemy dismounted infantry unit of your choice, no questions asked, EVERY TURN!  

 

Mount up!

 

(edit:  Obviously, not much of this applies to a 500 point list...maybe a single wyvern in place of the hydra?)

[librisrouge]

I concur with everything march said, aside from Hellhounds. Sadly, I haven't had one perform for me since 4th edition so I sold my three to buy Knights.

 

A few additions:

Vendettas, while point costly, are deadly and ALWAYS worth considering.

Knight Paladins are basically two LRBTs that can fight well in melee. Consider investing in one since you have multiple valuable and redundant organs.

If you end up high on infantry, take Yarrick. He can actually fight, still issues orders, and has our best Warlord Traits for boot heavy lists.

I've only used them once but the look on people's faces when you plunk down 50 fearless conscripts is golden, just golden.

[march10k]

Well...hellhounds were mediocre in 5th and HORRIBLE in 6th, but they're baaaack!

[Rabenfeder]

Hey there, it's me again.

 

I want my vehicles to look "alive", so I thought about adding some additional bitz like...:

 

http://www.dersockelshop.de/black-dog/tentage-und-bedrolls-set-2-/-1-48.html

http://www.dersockelshop.de/verlinden/bren-carrier-stowage-/-1-48.html

http://www.dersockelshop.de/verlinden/british-afv-stowage-wwii-/-1-48.html

http://www.dersockelshop.de/verlinden/german-military-vehicle-stowage-/-1-48.html

 

Do you've got any experience with that kind of additional stuff? How well does the 1:48 scale (and the thing that it's from another company) fit?

 

For colors, I may try some from Vallejo - their color range is really broad. I've never worked with those, but haven't heard anything terrible about Vallejo. I'm kinda undecided yet about the color scheme:

 

http://i.imgur.com/JS9dU6r.jpg

 

I like the darker uniforms (and light tanks are probably better to weather and more... realistic?). The left pattern may be better on the tabletop (higher contrast between the two colors) and it may fit the fluff a little bit more, though. Undecided. Which pattern do you prefer?

 

Regards

 

 

Rabe

[WarriorFish]

Both patterns are nice, but I think I'd go for number 2. As for the stowage and gubbins that's always good to add, but the 48 scale might not work. Certain bits like the canvas stuff would probably be ok as the size isn't an issue but the other pieces will probably look a little on the small side.

 

I use some Vallejo paints for my colour scheme and they're good :)

[Rabenfeder]

Would 1:35 be more fitting?

 

Will try some Vallejo then as soon as I decided for the colors.

 

Edit.: Tamiya 1/48 jerry can set next to a 28mm miniature. Seems to be about right. Some other sites recommend 1:35, though.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Jo7MF7H.jpg

 

Edit.:

 

1:35 sprue: http://www.dersockelshop.de/tamiya/allied-vehicle-set-/-1-35.html

[elmo]

I would go for scheme no. 1 and Vallejo paints are fast becoming my standard, now replacing GW.

[CyderPirate]

Another vote for number 1!

I managed to convert one of Vic's highlanders to carry a melta rather than the machine gun he was carrying. Not easy, to be honest, but the new weapons they've put out might be easier to swap-in. FW Krieg special weapon arms might fit the models better than the GW cadian ones if you want to try that route.

The models are just spectacular, the only issue is the price.