Battlereport: GK vs Eldar - 2000 Points...they did it again

[Eisenhardt]

Hey all,

After my last annoying game versus Eldar (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/296426-battlereport-gk-vs-eldar-2000-pointswhat-a-mess/) I tried to restore my honor, but as you might guess, I lost again. This time it was more close, although I did some stupid things and the Eldar list was much more “kick ass” than last time.

 

So let´s start with the army list:

I decided to go for Blood Angels as Allies. I wanted to use a jumping unit with inferno pistols to blow the expected Serpents to pieces… Furthermore I wanted to use more LR to save my poor GK Terminators from the heavy AP2 shooting:

 

Main Army: GK

Grand Master with Relic Armour (I don’t know the English word for it) and Nemesis Hammer

5 Terminators with Psi-cannon, 4 Halberds, 1 Hammer driving in a LR with MM

7 Terminators with PSI-Cannon, 5 Halberds, 1 Hammer, 1 Warding Staff driving in LRC with MM. The GM was attached to this unit.

1 NDK with Nemesis – Sword, Psi-Cannon and Flamer

Blood Angels (Allied army):

Commander Dante

Sanguinary Guard with 5 Inferno Pistols and Banner

Total ~ 2000 points

 

My opponent informed my some days before the battle that he invented a crazy list to kick my ass…ok, the last game was hard enough, and how could it be worse? Lets see…

 

Codex Supplement Iyanden:

Autarch with Wraith Forge Stone

3 Wraithknights…I do not know all the English expressions for the weapon loadout. One was his warlord (300 Points) and the 2 others were 280 Points.

2 Wraithguards (160 Points each)

3 Warwalkers

2 Crimson Hunters

3 Vypers

Total 1990 Points

Surprise, surprise…no Serpents. And it was an unbound list!

 

We played the 6^th of the new missions, so we had 6 mission goals from the beginning and were losing one each round. After the unfair mission goal distribution from the last game, we decided to make some house rules, based on your comments from my last battle report: Each double “hold objective X” card has to be exchanged. Furthermore each drawn card for already hold mission objective (at the beginning of the player turn) has to be exchanged. In total this worked quite good!

The mission goals were spread on the table like in the last game: 2 for me, 2 for my opponent and 2 in the middle of the table. We build up the terrain and I won the dice throw for beginning the game. As you can see, I placed all units close border. Unfortunately we decided to use the arrangement suggested in the mission briefing. Due to this diagonal arrangement the distance for my LR was longer to reach his lines as it would have been for the normal arrangement.

The filthy Eldars tried to stay away as much as possible. He concentrated his army in his corner, only using the 3 Wraithknights and the 2 Wraithguards. All other units were in Reserve.

Regarding PSI, I used the same discipline where I can reroll the “to hit” throws for my GM. I got 3 other quite useful powers from the table, but I couldn’t use them in the game. As Warlord Trait, I rolled number 5 on the GK table.

 

 

TURN 1:

GK:

The Eldar could not steal the Ini, so I began the game.

Movement:

The goal was clear: The LR needed to go as fast as possible to the Eldar. The LR moved 6” because he the Wraith Guards in shooting range. The LRC moved 12”. The NDK jumped into the ruin to gain some cover (because I did not expect to bring Sanctuary through) and of course, he lost one hitpoint due to dangerous terrain…everytime the same and started asking myself, why the dice gods hate me so much…I did not move the Sanguinary Guard because there was no real cover in front of the ruin.

PSI:

Sanctuary for the NDK…this was the point where I realized that the Eldar had no Psyker?!

Shooting:

The LR is shooting on the Wraith Guards but could only achieve one hit point loss.

Victory Points:

None

 

 

Eldar:

Movement:

One Wraithknight moved out of cover towards mission goal 5. All others did not move.

PSI:

Nothing, due to the lack of Psykers.

Shooting:

This is the point where my hate on these little bastards begins in each game…surprisingly this shooting phase was not extremely good for Eldar, only good. The LR lost 2 HP and the crew was shaken.

Victory Points:

None

 

TURN 2:

VP: GK 0 – 0 Eldar

GK:

Movement:

Same as in turn 1: LR and LRC moving forward, also the NDK was jumping behind the LRC. I also moved the Sanguinary Guard, because I did not expect to see any Eldar in my staring area soon…unfortunately there was no cover nearby and I expected the worst.

PSI:

Again Sanctuary for the NDK…but I managed to have only one “4 or higher” dice with 6 dices. So my opponent managed to banish this power with 3 dices.

 Shooting:

The Machine Spirit of the LR could strip off one Hitpoint from the Wraith guard, the LRC could rip off 1 hit point from the Wraith Knight (this was not so bad, I guess).

Victory Points:

None

 

 

Eldar:

Movement:

The only Wraithknight, which had a little bit of “balls” to come out of cover, moved back into cover because he was afraid of the “Über”-LRC. The reserve throws were made and both flyers and the Autarch were entering the battle field.

PSI:

Nothing

Shooting:

This was nice for me…the Crimson Hunter and the Wraith Guards could not strip off more HP from the LR. Also the LRC only losses one HP after receiving the shots from one Crimson Hunter and one Wraithknight. All other units were shooting on the Sanguinary Guard and Dante. Surprisingly Dante ate up all shots and lost one hit point. Good boy!

Victory Points:

None

 

TURN 3:

VP: GK 0 – 0 Eldar

GK:

Movement:

The LR was moving forward to the Wraithguards and the Terminators disembarked. The LRC and the NDK were also moving forward. The Sanguinary Guard tried to hide under the landing shield.

PSI:

Again Sancutary…this time I managed to get 4 “4 or higher” dices with 6 dices…but also a double 6…so I tested for attacks from the Warp…got a 1 on the table…and luckily passed the morale test, otherwise my NDK would have vanish without doing anything! But he had only 2 hitpoints left…

Shooting:

The filthy gutless Wraithknight lost 4 Hitpoints due to the combined fire of the LRC and NDK. Unfortunately I could not take away the last one. But the LR finally killed one Wraithguard…whoohoo, first kill in round 3!

Close Combat:

OMG…the shooting phase was good, but this CC…the Wraithguard killed easily three Terminators and only received 2 wounds. Something was going wrong here. Luckily I managed to pass the morale check with a 9…

 Victory Points:

1 for first blood, one for killing a unit, one for killing a MC (both for the Wraithguard) and one for holding mission goal 5 –> in total 4 points

 

 

Eldar:

Movement:

The Wraithknight with the 1 HP left moved further into cover and close to the Autarch. Of course he could regenerate one HP with the Wraith Forge Stone. The Warwalkers enter the Battlefield.

Shooting:

This was the point where the full shooting power of the Eldar turned the game. One Crimson Hunter took one HP away from the NDK. The other one managed to immobilize the LR. 2 of the Wraithknights were shooting at the Sanguinary Guard and killed 3 of them (would have been more, but they could not see more). The Warwalkers killed easily Dante and the rest of the Guard. The last Wraithknight took away 2 HP from the LR and wrecked him.

Close Combat:

Why? What have I done to the dice gods?...One Terminator dead, no HP loss for the Wraithguard.

Victory Points:

3 for three dead units (LR, Dante and Guard)

 

 

 

TURN 4:

VP: GK 4 – 3 Eldar

GK:

Movement:

I decided to teleport the NDK back to my mission goals to gain one VP and to keep him away from the heavy shooting (he had only 1 HP left). But he nearly died due to dangerous terrain, only the 5++ saved him. The LRC tried to move forward to finally release his unit inside…and got immobilized on the terrain…golly gee?! Why I am always throwing a “1” when it is coming to dangerous terrain tests?!

Shooting:

Nothing, the LRC could not harm any Eldar. The NDK tried to “run” to the Mission objective, but could not reach it.

CC:

The Wraithguard killed the last Terminator…do I need to comment this?

Victory Points:

Of course..none

 

 

Eldar:

We can summarize it in short: One Crimson Hunter killed the NDK. The other one let the immobilized LRC explode (where 2 Terminators died…to a S4 AP- hit?!?!). Another Terminator died to fire from a Wraithknight.

Victory Points:

none

 

TURN 5:

VP: GK 4 – 3 Eldar

GK:

My only chance of winning was to stay alive during this turn, hoping that the game ends after turn 5 and that the Eldar do not gain another VP…it was like Easter and Christmas falling to one day.

So as good and honorable GK’s the remaining GM and two Terminators attacked the Wraithkight in CC. The plan was to NOT kill it, because I wanted to stay alive the next shooting phase of Eldar. But my GM wanted to kill the Xenos and he ripped the 2 HP from the Wraithknight with no Problem.

 

Eldar:

I cannot remember, which one of the remaining Eldar force finally killed the GM and the two Terminators…it was a blood bath.

ELDAR won due to killing all GK and Blood Angels!

 

 

Coming to the summary of the game:

1. Using LR against Eldar is not bad at all. In this game the long distance to reach the Eldar was a problem (especially for the LRC), but normally they should delivery their “package” safely. But 260 Points is a big amount of points which reduces the body count of our Army much more.
2. We all know the Wraithknights are the pure evil…but also the Crimson Hunters can hurt a lot! They cannot be ignored. The question is, how to deal with them? Is one Storm Raven enough?
3. Ok, using Dante and Guard was stupid for this game. But I expected more Serpents moving towards my lines…
4. The “house rules” for the mission goals worked well so far. I think we will use them next game again.

Thank you for reading so far!

 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I decided to go for Blood Angels as Allies. I wanted to use a jumping unit with inferno pistols to blow the expected Serpents to pieces… Furthermore I wanted to use more LR to save my poor GK Terminators from the heavy AP2 shooting:

 

The problem with this plan is that inferno pistols and even meltaguns are very risky. You have to get in range (they can outpace Assault Marines, barring Deepstrike), and they can Jink against it. Even if you pen, you need a natural 5 to one-shot them, which even with three shots is chancy. That's why Fire Dragons are still the best anti-tank infantry unit in the game, due to their melta on every dude and cheapness (plus delivery system with aformentioned unkillable Serpent). By the same token, Eldar laugh at Land Raiders. Yes, their absurd Serpent firepower can't touch it, but I've yet to meet an Eldar player who doesn't take Dragons (unless they're doing a Wraith list). 

Grand Master with Relic Armour (I don’t know the English word for it) and Nemesis Hammer

5 Terminators with Psi-cannon, 4 Halberds, 1 Hammer driving in a LR with MM

7 Terminators with PSI-Cannon, 5 Halberds, 1 Hammer, 1 Warding Staff driving in LRC with MM. The GM was attached to this unit.

1 NDK with Nemesis – Sword, Psi-Cannon and Flamer

 

I'd be dropping some Terminators for another Dreadknight. Eldar are actually weak in melee outside their specialists (which still crumple to DK's, especially expensive Wraithblades or Wraithknights). You just need to field it as a NSF. Grandmaster w/Cuirass of Sacrifice and hammer is very nice. 

Blood Angels (Allied army):

Commander Dante

Sanguinary Guard with 5 Inferno Pistols and Banner

 

Throne that is so little bang for your buck. I was expecting two Assault squads loaded out with melta...

Autarch with Wraith Forge Stone

3 Wraithknights…I do not know all the English expressions for the weapon loadout. One was his warlord (300 Points) and the 2 others were 280 Points.

2 Wraithguards (160 Points each)

3 Warwalkers

2 Crimson Hunters

3 Vypers

 

Urgh, the other Eldar power list. I feel bad for you man. 

Using LR against Eldar is not bad at all. In this game the long distance to reach the Eldar was a problem (especially for the LRC), but normally they should delivery their “package” safely. But 260 Points is a big amount of points which reduces the body count of our Army much more.

 

Pretty much. Anytime you feel like taking an LR, a Raven or Dreadknight is just flat-out better. Its sad really. 

We all know the Wraithknights are the pure evil…but also the Crimson Hunters can hurt a lot! They cannot be ignored. The question is, how to deal with them? Is one Storm Raven enough?

 

You need Vendettas. Ravens will get shot down, he can field more of his Flyers due to his cheaper overall costs. Vendettas can compete on price and have triple lascannon to blow it to pieces. Skyfire Centurions using Red Hunters is another option. 

Ok, using Dante and Guard was stupid

 

Seriously. Doesn't matter the opponent, Dante+bodyguard is a combo you should only take at Apoc levels of play. He's a massively expensive hero for what he does, and we already suffer from pricey units and low model count. 

 

Your take away from this game should be that low model count armies don't work in 40k. You'll get swept off the table by the power units in the meta, and other armies can just bring more stuff that tips the scales. Tau do this even more aggressively. 

[IndigoJack]

First, you should have activated your force weapons against the wraithknight (I'm assuming that's what you meant, you switch wraithknight and wraithguard a lot), that would have killed him easy. If you meant wraithguard, hammerhand is your key. Next, dangerous terrain is no longer an invul save, but rather an armor save, even so, since MCs have move through cover, they automatically pass dangerous terrain tests.

 

Against crimson hunters, just shoot them, every gun in your army can affect them. If your opponent jinks, his flyer becomes less effective. If he doesn't, you stand a chance of knocking out a hull point or two. At the very least, hiding in combat will protect your infantry/MC.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I will just join in with others in noting that Blood Angels would not be my choice for taking on Wave Serpents. For that many points I could put 3 squads of Legion of the Damned on the table fully loaded with melta and maybe combi-grav. With Relentless, Ignores Cover and re-rolls on their deepstrike they can appear in the backfield and deliver a decent alpha-strike that is hard for anything to ignore.

 

They can also be really frustrating for an Eldar opponent who has loaded up on AP2 weapons to take on GKT and suddenly finds fearless mini-tarpits arriving all over his backfield with 3++ that his expensive weapons can't ignore. Wraithknights don't really like that much melta/grav either and unless they can finish off a whole squad in one turn of CC they get bogged down which gives you a chance to bring up the Hammers to finish them off.

 

Plus it puts a lot more bodies on the table, which I think you need.

[Eisenhardt]

First, you should have activated your force weapons against the wraithknight (I'm assuming that's what you meant, you switch wraithknight and wraithguard a lot), that would have killed him easy. If you meant wraithguard, hammerhand is your key. Next, dangerous terrain is no longer an invul save, but rather an armor save, even so, since MCs have move through cover, they automatically pass dangerous terrain tests.

 

Against crimson hunters, just shoot them, every gun in your army can affect them. If your opponent jinks, his flyer becomes less effective. If he doesn't, you stand a chance of knocking out a hull point or two. At the very least, hiding in combat will protect your infantry/MC.

 

You are right...it was not "Wraithguard", it was "Wraithlord"...sorry for mixing up the names.

 

Also I forgot the MC rules again...next time I will remember them!

 

Just shoot the flyers...that is not so easy if there so many other threats nearby. It is hard to find a priority against this Eldar list because nearly every unit can hurt you much. But after all, the main problem seems to be not having enough bodies on the table. So you are saying that a Terminator based GK army cannot compete in the actual Meta? This is really sad, I always liked the GK Terminators more than any other...so what should I do then? Spamming Puris and Interceptors togehter with NDKs?

[Eisenhardt]

I will just join in with others in noting that Blood Angels would not be my choice for taking on Wave Serpents. For that many points I could put 3 squads of Legion of the Damned on the table fully loaded with melta and maybe combi-grav. With Relentless, Ignores Cover and re-rolls on their deepstrike they can appear in the backfield and deliver a decent alpha-strike that is hard for anything to ignore.

 

They can also be really frustrating for an Eldar opponent who has loaded up on AP2 weapons to take on GKT and suddenly finds fearless mini-tarpits arriving all over his backfield with 3++ that his expensive weapons can't ignore. Wraithknights don't really like that much melta/grav either and unless they can finish off a whole squad in one turn of CC they get bogged down which gives you a chance to bring up the Hammers to finish them off.

 

Plus it puts a lot more bodies on the table, which I think you need.

 

I was thinking about using the LotD for long time now, but always found something else more worthy to buy instead of them....I think that after deployment, they have some fire potential, but then? The Eldar maybe will just jump away and laugh about the slow LotD....and coming into CC with them seems also very unlikely for me.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 Against crimson hunters, just shoot them, every gun in your army can affect them. If your opponent jinks, his flyer becomes less effective. If he doesn't, you stand a chance of knocking out a hull point or two. At the very least, hiding in combat will protect your infantry/MC. 

 

With non-Skyfire? Good luck. 6's to hit is hellish for our army, we already lack enough units to do the job at range alone. You need either Allied Flyer hunters like Vendettas, or Ravens. Anything else just won't work. Vengeance batteries are also a good option if you have the points, you can get 2 in a single Fortifications slot (either as individual gun emplacements or on a single bunker). 

Just shoot the flyers...that is not so easy if there so many other threats nearby. It is hard to find a priority against this Eldar list because nearly every unit can hurt you much. But after all, the main problem seems to be not having enough bodies on the table. So you are saying that a Terminator based GK army cannot compete in the actual Meta? This is really sad, I always liked the GK Terminators more than any other...so what should I do then? Spamming Puris and Interceptors togehter with NDKs?

 

Spamming our infantry isn't worthwhile either, not when Strikes are so bad and Purifiers need either Allies or a Raven to get into enemy lines alive. Termies are okay, but they can't be your only infantry, they're still too easy to remove with AP2. 

 

Dreadknight spam is our only real tourney build, and its prone to bad matchups. 

I will just join in with others in noting that Blood Angels would not be my choice for taking on Wave Serpents. For that many points I could put 3 squads of Legion of the Damned on the table fully loaded with melta and maybe combi-grav. With Relentless, Ignores Cover and re-rolls on their deepstrike they can appear in the backfield and deliver a decent alpha-strike that is hard for anything to ignore.

 

Yeah LotD are pretty solid, plus they're annoying to get rid of because their save is invulnerable. 

[IndigoJack]

 

 Against crimson hunters, just shoot them, every gun in your army can affect them. If your opponent jinks, his flyer becomes less effective. If he doesn't, you stand a chance of knocking out a hull point or two. At the very least, hiding in combat will protect your infantry/MC. 

 

With non-Skyfire? Good luck. 6's to hit is hellish for our army, we already lack enough units to do the job at range alone. You need either Allied Flyer hunters like Vendettas, or Ravens. Anything else just won't work. Vengeance batteries are also a good option if you have the points, you can get 2 in a single Fortifications slot (either as individual gun emplacements or on a single bunker). 

 

 

*Shrug* I've never really had a problem shooting down AV10/11 flyers. To be fair though, I have two units of purifers w/ 2 psycannons each whose sole job is to provide fire support and cleansing flame. Speaking of cleansing flame, I've also found it to be pretty potent against AV10/11. Against a paper airplane, you'll average a pen and a glance. TBH though, I stopped worrying about flyers towards the end of 6th. The only flyer that really scared me was the heldrake, and now that it's working properly again, I'm not absolutely terrified by it. In general flyers have restricted movement (crimson hunters being an exception obviously) and aren't really going to do that much to me in the long run.

[Gentlemanloser]

You can CF a Flier?

 

I thought that would't work as it doesn't roll to hit.  And only works on FMC as they don't have Hard to Hit.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

"Nova:

 

A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures) within the psychic power's maximum range, regardless of Line of Sight, being locked in combat, intervening models/terrain..."

pg. 27, 40k rulebook

 

I've done it to a FMC spam Nid army before. Tears like you would not believe when I caught both his Harpies and Flyrants. 

 

Yeah, although that does mean keeping Purifiers alive and on-table, which can be challenging. 

[Happy-inquisitor]

You can CF a Flier?

 

I thought that would't work as it doesn't roll to hit. And only works on FMC as they don't have Hard to Hit.

Nova powers specifically do hit flyers and FMC. Tricky to down a helldrake with purifiers but Eldar paper planes burn nicely.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah ha!

 

I've missed that.

 

Cleansing Flame gets that much better....

 

Hmmm, how best to leverage it?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Ah ha!

 

I've missed that.

 

Cleansing Flame gets that much better....

 

Hmmm, how best to leverage it?

 

Deliver them via Raven, or drop pod if you're taking SW Allies. Even just casting it once is amazing.

[Happy-inquisitor]

Deliver them via Raven, or drop pod if you're taking SW Allies. Even just casting it once is amazing.

Or in the context of this thread, if you are taking land raiders fill one up with purifiers.

 

It's almost a worthwhile reason to take Crowe to put in the LRC. Ok, probably not but it would be funny if it worked.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Or in the context of this thread, if you are taking land raiders fill one up with purifiers.

 

In the context of this thread, Land Raiders are dead against Eldar. Fire Dragons and bright lance (not to mention haywire grenades, wraith weapons etc) obliterate high AV targets, and you won't be able to bring enough to tax their resources. 

 

Ravens have Flyer status, AV12 all round, melta immunity, plus better firepower and the ability to kill enemy Flyers/FMC's. They're still vulnerable to Eldar Flyers annoyingly, but that means less AP2 into your Dreadknights and infantry so it's not all bad. 

[Eisenhardt]

After some thinking about your comments, and looking at the miniatures I own, I want to try the following list next time:

 

GK:

 

HQ: Scriptor with Staff and Stormbolter

 

Standard: 7 Terminators with Halberds, 1 Hammer, 1 Psi-Cannon and LRC (riding with Scriptor)

 

Heavy Support: 2 NDK with flamer and PSI Cannon and Teleporter

 

Lord of War: Draigo

 

Building: Aegis Defence Line with Laser Canon (Anti Air)

 

Allied Detachment: Red Scorpions:

 

HQ: Magister Severin Loth

 

Standard: 5 Scouts with Sniper Rifles and Rocket Launcher with Anti-Air Rockets

 

Heavy Support: 3 Centurion Devastors with Rocket Launchers and Grav-Cannons

 

Total: ~ 2000 Points

 

11 Warp Charges

 

 

 

The scouts shall hide behind the Aegis Line and control the Laser Canon. Both shall be used for taking the fliers down.

 

The Centurions, Loth and Draigo are one unit. Loth of course is used for "Invisibility" and taking wounds with 2++. Draigo is for GoI and taking wounds with 3++. They shall jump over the plate and hunt the big guys like Wraith Knights.

 

The NDK shall support the Centurion Star....like attacking if something survives the Centurion shots (which should not happen...according to calculations this unit should kill a Wraith Knight in one Shooting phase...but in case the Knight has a 5++, he might survive)

 

The LRC with Terminators and Scriptors is used for dealing with the rest.

 

 

This List has still a low body count, but in case the Centurion Star is used properly (and does not get lost/killed after entering from reserve via GoI) the Knights should die much faster than in my previous list. Furthermore the strong units (NDK and Cents) are mobile and can hunt the Eldar. In addition there is some Anti-Air Firepower to kill the Crimson Hunters. At least it should work much better than before. What do you think?

[Adeptus]

Ah ha!

 

I've missed that.

 

Cleansing Flame gets that much better....

 

Hmmm, how best to leverage it?

Gate + Cleansing Flame = profit. On a related note, if you had Crowe in a Purifier squad with a Librarian who also knew Cleansing Flame, could you attempt to manifest it three times?

[Quozzo]

I would have dropped 2 terminators for a PT on the NDK as your not benefiting from an extra ranged weapon by only taking 7. Dante and his squad of wounds are too expensive for what they bring. Dante attached to purifiers could be good though, pass a Ld check in your opponents assault phase to break off combat, shoot, cleanse them with flame and then charge right back in .