Loesh Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Oh and Lucius makes an appearance? i'd like to see that too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3840729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Okay, mini-review, may be taken as mild spoilers but aiming more to expand on the context of the stories rather than give away details: Imperfect is more of a "replay" of Fulgrim and Ferrus's regicide match pre-Isstvan. I say replay because its one of several Fulgrim's had at this point and is determined to keep trying til he achieves the "perfect" outcome... Howl of the Hearthworld, could be considered as prologue to Master of Mankind, as it's the introduction to the pack sent to watch Dorn and their views towards the role they'll be taking A Safe and Shadowed Place, figure you'll have read the extract from this on BL so no surprise to say it involves Night Lords in Ultramar, near Sotha but would say possibly setting/timescale of the earlier chapters in Unremembered Empire, based on the pulses from Sotha Virtues of the Sons relates to Sanguinius's concern for the BA's future, due to his visions/knowledge of the Flaw, and his hopes for Amit and Azkellon to learn important lessons from their duels with Khârn and Lucius. Set before the prologue of Fear to Tread. Gunsight follows on from Nemesis and goes up to current timeline of Vengeful Spirit...can't say much more as would give too much away. Plus there is also an extract from Heart of the Conqueror, ADB's short from Legacies of Betrayal, and is set after the events on Nuceria. Personally, enjoyed the stories but this may be to how I see them tying into other publications Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3841627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allart01 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Who won? Amit or Khârn? Spoiler please :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3841678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterofMankind Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I got it, and am in the process of reading it, so I'm going to post spoilers as I go through the book. First up, Imperfect. Regicide match between Fulgrim and Ferrus, but something seems wrong in the way they act. They both have strange and awkward outbursts (Fulgrim annoyed by Ferrus's hands) as they talk about trust and morality. Fulgrim plays a traitor's gambit on Ferrus, i.e a move where his primarch is converted to Fulgrim's side. Ferrus gets mad and Fulgrim declares him imperfect before killing him, but not before Ferrus remembers his original death. Now comes the part that pissed me off It's revealed that "Ferrus" was actually one of dozens of clones made by Fabius, but each was "imperfect" and was killed. Fulgrim is tired of Fabius, saying that he wants a PERFECT clone, silver hands and all. Fabius asks him if he would like to try again. Fulgrim just sighs and nods and the story ends. Fulgrim's characterization is actually really well done, and Imperfect is one of the few stories that benefits from being from a primarch's perspective. But it kinds of goes bad near the end, where Fulgrim literally says to fabius "Shut up, I'm bored Next, Howl of the Hearthworld. pretty short and simple, a SW squads gets assigned to guard Dorn. The squad sergeant, Thirteen Stars Falling,gets insulted by the proposal and claims that it is exile. Russ is having none of it and asks him if he is willing to be the first SW to disregard his order. Stars Falling then bows down to his authority, but not before his captain asks to be sent alongside them. They are escorted to a ship that is going to take them to Terra and a scribe. They lie to the scribe about their names, using their birth names. THere's also a problem with the former SW librarian who refuses to take off his librarian hood(shaman crown in this case). It's quite good, especially by exploring the brotherhood between the SW. The watch pack guarding Dorn are also explained as politics, as guarding all but Dorn would have insulted the other primarch Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3842746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 This is why I love ADB. Spoilers on the Howl. That scene where they "lie" to the "scribe" is awesome. They simply give him what would actually make sense to him. They give their birth names, and Legion classifications that make sense on the Terran proto-Legion model, but mean nothing to the actual Legion anymore. One of them is a Wolf Lord, but he gives his title as Chapter Master of the Crying Dragons (or something), commander of the 12th Great Company. But the best part is when the Rune Priest says he is a Librarian. Scribe fumbles, mentions the Edict, Rune Priest saves face by clarifying ex-Librarian. I could never remove the hood. Anger the machine-spirits. Totally not lying, as evidenced by the extreme amount of murderous intent focused on you by calling me out on it. Walk away, walk away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3842964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Hey all, only read "Howl of the Hearthworld" so far, due to it being very late, but found one piece of info that shines an important light on the Prospero situation: Russ, before he goes to Prospero, goes to speak with Horus first. This may be the first piece of evidence in the HH series of Horus changing Russ's role at Prospero. I doubt we'll ever see that meeting, but if Russ goes from arrest to purge, this shines a light as to why. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3843759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 First piece? What about the Prospero Burns/Thousand Sons duology? It talks about that too, though it adds Valdor as an influence along that path as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3843838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I just read Howl of the Hearthworld last night, and AD-B's take on Heresy era Wolves was everything I had hoped. Brilliant. There is so much characterization in this short story. I also got a distinct Robert E. Howard feeling from these Wolves, which just fits so perfectly. Gah, now I'm dying to read Master of Mankind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3843901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 First piece? What about the Prospero Burns/Thousand Sons duology? It talks about that too, though it adds Valdor as an influence along that path as well. I dont remember either of those book outright stating that Russ talked to Horus immediately prior to Prospero. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3843913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It's been awhile since I read it, so I can't recall anything specific. But I could swear specific mention is made that Russ' mind or order was changed after listening to the Warmaster and Valdor, one had already turned traitors and the other was perhaps too zealous in his mindset towards those who betrayed his lord. I certainly didn't come away from them with the feeling that they had changed that, besides adding Valdor to the mix. But I suppose I could be remembering it wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3843940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It's been awhile since I read it, so I can't recall anything specific. But I could swear specific mention is made that Russ' mind or order was changed after listening to the Warmaster and Valdor, one had already turned traitors and the other was perhaps too zealous in his mindset towards those who betrayed his lord. I certainly didn't come away from them with the feeling that they had changed that, besides adding Valdor to the mix. But I suppose I could be remembering it wrong. In older material they said that Horus had altered the orders, and being the Warmaster, Russ didnt question it. I dont remember anything in the recent works that expressly said that. Adding Valdor in the mix was tossing gasoline on a open flame. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3844123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPaladin Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Just read A Safe and Shadowed Place last night. I was happy to see the return of a character from Prince of Crows(no, not that one...). Guy Haley just keeps rising in the ranks, I really want to see a full length HH novel from him. Things are about to get even more interesting for the XIII. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3845515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's been awhile since I read it, so I can't recall anything specific. But I could swear specific mention is made that Russ' mind or order was changed after listening to the Warmaster and Valdor, one had already turned traitors and the other was perhaps too zealous in his mindset towards those who betrayed his lord. I certainly didn't come away from them with the feeling that they had changed that, besides adding Valdor to the mix. But I suppose I could be remembering it wrong. In older material they said that Horus had altered the orders, and being the Warmaster, Russ didnt question it. I dont remember anything in the recent works that expressly said that. Adding Valdor in the mix was tossing gasoline on a open flame. WLK yeah, it was in the 3rd book if i'm remember it right Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3845725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 One of the first three pays homage to Horus changing the orders. Howl of the Hearth World repeats this by having the VIth Legion meet up with Horus before going to Prospero. If Valdor ha anything to do with it, then it is in Prospero Burns, but that book is very difficult for me to read so I would rather say someone who is more familiar with the book would be better suited for saying yay or nay. My copy came in today so at the moment, I've read Howl of the Hearth World and A Safe and Shadowed Place. Howl was very nice, a little short for my tastes but is dark chocolate sweet. A Safe and Shadowed Place was... Different for Night Lords. I'd be willing to wager Guy Haley was commissioned for this piece rather than volunteering. That or he is new to the Night Lords. It wasn't bad but... Well that tiny ebook by John French can blow it out of the water. We see new faces, but old archetypes with Night Lords just being sadistic torturers. He did very well with the humor that many of us like to see come from the VIIIth Legion. But a lot of it seemed..... Forced, like it was an effort to purposefully create a character who would one second ask for ship status and then threaten an officer for being insubordinate. Ooh, on that note, a mortal being insolent with a Night Lord. That was new. Overall, pretty decent writing and it makes three authors I'd be comfortable reading Night Lord materials from. I eagerly await further material on the Midnight Clad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3845843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's been such a long time since I read it, I may very well be remembering it wrong. As for Valdor, it was mostly his attitude. He openly wanted Magnus dead. With him being the representative of the Emperor himself probably lent a lot of weight to his words. It'll be a lot easier for me to check sources if I look at the new Visions book. I'll do that tonight, as I don't have the physical copy on me. I just don't want to re-read both books just for this reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3845919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 how much was changed in the new Visions book? I loaned my original book out and it was "lost", and i havent been able to replace it yet. If its the same material with new pictures I can put it off for a bit. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not really sure. I have seen the older, but never read through it all and really retained anything. The layout seems a lot different, and I believe that some sections are smaller/larger if I think about it. Couldn't find a mention of Horus changing anything. Just says that the Emperor ordered them brought back to Terra to face judgment, exclamation point. It actually describes the whole thing as an arrest warrant being handled by a SWAT team. The Wolves and Custodes were there to beat the Sons, break them, and arrest Magnus himself. The Sisters of Silence were there to arrest any who survived the assault of the Wolves and Custodes going after Magnus. Pretty sure the fact that it even mentions the Custodes and Sisters is something new to this Visions, as I believe the older mentioned only the Wolves. Interesting bit on the Terran Wolves too, that I must have missed. Edit: There is a strong implication, though never outright stated, that the arrest and transport to Terra would end in summary execution. Edit the Second: There is a section where it details Horus' manipulations just prior to Isstvan. It mentions three Legions that something could be done about, the Wolves, Sons and Iron Warriors. It then describes his manipulation of the Iron Warriors, followed by a page of artwork and then Isstvan. I wonder if they had meant to put something there, and forgot or decided against it. Also, looking over it again, much has changed. Imperium Secondus is in it, for instance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The older book has the SoS and Custodes with the Wolves on Prospero. Nothing on Imperium Secundus. Guess Im going to have to hunt up a copy. Thanks! WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The super-awesome edition is still up on BL for 250 USD! Only a 100 copies left! I just got the 40 USD edition Amazon had. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Yea, to Amazon i go. GW can wipe its decision making end with the super-awesome edition WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
foostickuk Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 There's a lot about this I'm unhappy about but mainly it's because I appear to have been cast as Madonna I actually really liked Nemesis, thought it was a good change of pace and something different. http://i.imgur.com/Pv5JSgH.gif Must... resist.... *ahem* Yes, if giving reviews or dropping spoilers, please be sure to use spoiler tags for those of us who cannot immediately snatch up a new BL goodie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3846534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Howl of the Hearthworld is why I love AD-B's writing so much, adding character and nuance to the culture of each Legion. The fact that their birth names mean less to them than their deed names is a very interesting touch. Can someone shed any light if there is any to be shed on the Rout, chapter/great company set up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3866125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 19, 2014 Author Share Posted November 19, 2014 Well the name thing has to do with their "true names". Their deed names are the names they earned, the names that define who they are and carries their essence. I imagine the Rout set up is the Rout, the "companies" and then the "squads"(aka packs). And that it will be remarkably fluid, similar to how the Sons of Horus will sometimes hand pick squads from several dozen companies to fight one battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3866182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Valdor pushing for Magnus's head on a stick is in A Thousand Sons, I believe in the scene where Ahriman rifles through Wyrdmake's memories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3866206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 From my understanding Great Companies are like clans in the anthropological sense, and each has subdivision equivalent to chapters and companies, but nothing rigid or quantifiable. More than likely because that's not ADBs style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297939-death-and-defiance/page/2/#findComment-3866208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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