Bat33.1 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 With the arrival of IA13 giving access to lots of juicy options for CSM, so long as your local meta will allow FW of course and not a given everywhere sadly Where do you see this going for list building? Will you just use it to gain access to fluffy builds and the return of renegade guard for one? Or is there some really viable CSM based boosts to help get marine centered lists back on the table without resorting to demon allies, cultists, zombies and the Baledrake? I've seen enough CSM lists around that contain very few actual guys in power armour and that's completely opposite to what I'd like to use. I want CSM in power armour, or TDA if we can make those guys work too, along with some of the legion tanks, contemptors, etc. I am not totally against demon allies as in some cases it's a fluffy option but i'd rather not use them as the heavy lifters of the army list. So here is a place to put your thoughts on building a new CSM complete with FW IA13 options... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I guess the Sicaran Battle Tank and the Fire Raptor will see good use among Chaos players worldwide. Mostly because they have sick rules and look awesome as well. The Dreadclaws probably won't see that much use without Precision Strike like the loyalists but they help me in making a Rhino-less list. If only because I like the fluff and never warmed up to the metal-bawkses.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have a vision of 20 power armoured CSM plus characters pouring out of a Spartan. I don't know or care if that's any good or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Well if you want to run PA/TDA CSMs there are quite a few more ways to get them around now: Spartans - better land raider, but more expensive, however a transport capacity of 20 means you can fit a ton of dudes inside. Armoured ceramite keeps pesky suicide melta at bay and 5HP means its gonna be hella tough to bring you down. Drop pods - Both seem good in their own way, you have to survive a turn of shooting, but you can DS up to 24" away from your target then hover over there the following turn and assault out within easy reach of your target. The problem being predictability and having to survive a turn of shooting on an AV12 vehicle. Storm Eagle - Good, but more than most vehicles will likely suffer from a lack of POTMS as it tends to carry both anti infantry and anti tank firepower. Large transport capacity again. So any TDA or CSM group that wants to get into assault has a bunch of new better options - terminators and Khorne beserkers being the obvious choices. More generally I think the Sicaran, Fire Raptor and Rapier batteries are all very good choices going by the loyalist versions, the chaos Fire Raptor I think has the distinction of just being better than the loyalist version (a rarity!) The Fire Raptor doesn't need the ever undercosted POTMS because of it's new missile loadout and wonderful ball turrets, and the option to give the ACs rending is really good. I do wish they'd changed the AT missiles Ordnance rule, but personally I'll be using the S5 large blast missiles pretty much all the time to kill hordes, and they work better with the bolt cannon anyway. Does look like it's gotten a slight price increase over the experimental rules, but I think that's deserved. The Sicaran is just good, with Malefic ammo I think the heavy bolter sponsons are a better choice, depending on exact costs as that gives it murderous anti-infantry and anti-tank fire. Even against AV14 it's going to strip hull points. The rapiers look to have a lot of options and keep heresy prices, 3 Laser Destroyers is a good deal pointswise and I'll definitely be picking some up to use. The conversion beamer looks to be a better version of the normal one as well so may be worth a look. The relic predator could be pretty good, apparently has all the loyalist weapons plus an AP3 autocannon one, I imagine the plasma destroyer variant will see use, as that's a cheap way to get a heavy 3 plasma cannon that doesn't get hot on the field, and for a pretty cheap cost. The dreadnoughts I think will depend on options and costs, as will the Hell Talon/Blade. Although if the bomber can only drop one bomb a turn as rumoured that's a mark against it I feel. For CSM lists generally it looks to be a massive boost that has the potential to cover up a lot of areas where the codex was weak and it does make some infantry choices better by giving them more transport options. It is not going to solve certain problems like over costing and there's not much in there to make bog standard Chaos Space Marines better to my eyes, they're still too pricey. Although depending on costs the Relic of the Long War that apparently grants a 12" FNP bubble definitely has some possibilities. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 For my Iron Warriors it increases the possibility of doing a shooty list without being boring or weak I think. As previously mentioned the Sicaran will likely see use, as will the Landraider variants, I'm particularly looking forward to the infernal Achilles with it's increasing firepower mortar. I'm at this time limited as I don't have the book in my hands but there are several lists I've wanted to do for some time but lack the inclination due to uninspired rules writing on GW part. So what I hope to get out of it is at least two of these ideas for my Iron Warriors: Assault Blitzkrieg: Land Raider Spartans alongside Maulerfiends, DS Hellbrute mayhem packs supported by better less crazy Walkers like the Decimator, infernal Dread and the Contemptor. Firepower Blitzkrieg army: All (or as much possible) mechanised firepower list, very few footsloggers. Rhino Marines supported by Sicarans, Leman Russes and superheavy Tanks and the like Trench warfare defensive army: Includes renegades and CSM. Very small numbers of CSM. I want to represent the Iron Warriors holding position, in their favoured manner - with the minimum number of Legionaires. The achieve this I would use a renegade primary with CSM ally, lots of emplaced weapons and defenses and troops, with mortars and mobile artillery, the Marines in the safest positions laying down firepower (I'm thinking a triple custom Iron Warriors Bastions. The Custom is they're scratchbuilt, 5 sided with the guns having a greater field of fire than their Imperial counterparts - 252 degrees to be exact). Along with the Bastion is the trench defences that the human inhabit and Void Shields to top the whole thing off. The combined arms approach - I want to do an army list that shows the theme of the Iron Warriors off. So, lots of Artillery and firepower, disposable humans there to die and the CSM to take the glory. So that army I envision Spawn and Mutant Rabble as the first wave, A master of the horde, a Heretek, traitor platoons, and mobile artillery (Wyverns, Griffons and Basilisks oh my!). This will be supported by Marines and Warp Smiths to keep everything ticking over. The Marines are there to take ground in Rhinos and take care of business. The Warpsmiths to keep the Renegade tanks going and lay constant fire under. I hope that a good few mutant rabble die in callously placed barrages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Spartans - better land raider, but more expensive, however a transport capacity of 20 means you can fit a ton of dudes inside. Even better: 25. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 All the bodies. All of them, in the metal box. With Khârn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uprising Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I hate to be that guy, but can we hold off on the tactical ideas till we get our books and conformation of everything is like the rumors stated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3832928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have a vision of 20 power armoured CSM plus characters pouring out of a Spartan. I don't know or care if that's any good or not. sounds good to me as my Word Bearers have three 20 man squads :D , so long as your local meta will allow FW of course and not a given everywhere sadly jeez people still arguing about FW not being legal? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yes, stop assuming it's approved everywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Rakarial 20 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Personally for me it now means i can make my Soul Reavers imto a drop podding chaos army with raptors deep striking in for support and then my daemon allies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well, I've been running relic press, fire raptors, storm eagles and Spartans for about a year now, and I'll continue switching it up I'm sure. Only this time with insanly cheap troops and even crazier amounts of cheap KA-BOOMZ! What I'm interested in is the FOC changes the different renegade HQ options give. I'd love to finally have a hard hitting Tzeentch warrior army as opposed to a couple of sorcerers and the noiseless boys. Spawn in a 1-3 per slot as troops sounds awesome. I'm also impressed with the basic Noise lists I'm seeing, and seriously stoked to see some proper dreadnought uses like bolstering LD, dropping a FnP bubble etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 jeez people still arguing about FW not being legal? Yes. As others said, pods are going to be interesting for people to test [of the not 260pts kind], the relics seem to be very good. There are options for those that like the random [drop dread near enemy, its more resilient then a "normal"dread, opponent tries to counter. DP pops out of it]. The LR versions leave me cold, yes they have bigger transport capacity, yes we can put gazylion of dudes with 2-3 HQ inside, but it is still a super high cost unit that is rather slow [and god forbid if the LR blows up]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Rakarial 20 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well with our new venerable hellbrutes i can finally use the venerable dreads i use as brutes properly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I hate to be that guy, but can we hold off on the tactical ideas till we get our books and conformation of everything is like the rumors stated. Most of the stuff talked about here is already available to loyalists though, and from what Mystery/Doc has confirmed there are no major changes to the basic profiles (as expected) there are some new options (like malefic ammo) that will need looking at on a more case by case basis, and obviously until we get the full renegades and heretics list to look at its hard to really think about lists in anything but a general sense. Forgeworld dispatched my book this morning though, so I expect to have it hand in the next couple of days... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I hate to be that guy, but can we hold off on the tactical ideas till we get our books and conformation of everything is like the rumors stated. Well, you are the guy but you are right, but there is the opportunity to talk about tactics we'd like to enact as we have no idea of what the costs of these units are going to be. Forgeworld not being accepted is stupid, it is accepted where I play without issue, we have 30k playing 40k armies without problems, for that reason, I have no interest in fools who still argue the toss and view it as poor attitude to the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Doc Grotsnik Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I hate to be that guy, but can we hold off on the tactical ideas till we get our books and conformation of everything is like the rumors stated. It's all the truth duder :) And straight from the book! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hmm, so you can safely DS a Dreadclaw as Zooming and then make a Flat Out move between 12-24" to position it better, making the enemies snapshot against it and having jink for better protection? ...and turn 2 they can unleash hell? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandviper Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Im pretty sure the turn it DS its in hover mode. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Well in that case it can flat out 18" at least, always something... What units could take it as a dedicated transport apart from chosen and helbrutes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Rakarial 20 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Can vanilla csm take it as a dedicated transport? And possessed can they too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think the answer to that is buried in the BOLS thread, I believe it was a specific list of units that included Possessed and vanilla CSM that was allowed to take them as dedicated (I remember not seeing Thousand Sons on the list for example), Mystery may be able to re-post/enlighten us however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Fulgrim Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The original information from Mr. M. (which has been reproduced here on B&C) says that only CSM, Chosen, Helbrutes and the new Ferrum Infernus and Sonic Dreads can take Dreadclaws as DT, but that they can also be taken as a FA choice - so it looks like you're going to use up one of those slots if you want to put Termies, Possessed or Cult Troops into a Claw. Kind of odd that they were restricted in this way, since it seems to further limit the possible utility/appeal of Claws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The original information from Mr. M. (which has been reproduced here on B&C) says that only CSM, Chosen, Helbrutes and the new Ferrum Infernus and Sonic Dreads can take Dreadclaws as DT, but that they can also be taken as a FA choice - so it looks like you're going to use up one of those slots if you want to put Termies, Possessed or Cult Troops into a Claw. Kind of odd that they were restricted in this way, since it seems to further limit the possible utility/appeal of Claws. Agreed, although personally I rarely use more than one or two FA slots so it doesn't bother me too much for non-troops. Would have been nice to have it as an option for cult troops though for Obj Sec. One thing that has occured to me, should the drop pods have to be placed on their flying stands when you DS them in, especially if you're not disembarking a unit the turn they come in? It's obviously much easier to hide a pod behind LoS blocking terrain if it's not in a flying stand, but both the drop pods look to come with them from the FW pictures... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Lord Rakarial 20 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 As il be using loyalist pods as mine i wont be putting them on flying stands Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/#findComment-3833369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.