brother_contagion Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The original information from Mr. M. (which has been reproduced here on B&C) says that only CSM, Chosen, Helbrutes and the new Ferrum Infernus and Sonic Dreads can take Dreadclaws as DT, but that they can also be taken as a FA choice - so it looks like you're going to use up one of those slots if you want to put Termies, Possessed or Cult Troops into a Claw. Kind of odd that they were restricted in this way, since it seems to further limit the possible utility/appeal of Claws. Agreed, although personally I rarely use more than one or two FA slots so it doesn't bother me too much for non-troops. Would have been nice to have it as an option for cult troops though for Obj Sec. One thing that has occured to me, should the drop pods have to be placed on their flying stands when you DS them in, especially if you're not disembarking a unit the turn they come in? It's obviously much easier to hide a pod behind LoS blocking terrain if it's not in a flying stand, but both the drop pods look to come with them from the FW pictures... I'm certain that they have to be on their flight stands, as they're a flyer, not an immobile vehicle. But as it has been stated before, you could DS them a good distance away and then Flat Out them into position for next turn, and since they have jink they should be relatively survivable. Even though the Assault Claw is a little over the cost of a Land Raider, I think I might get one of them to DS because they do have Internal Guidance Systems, and they could carry a large amount of guys, so that could be something I could put a large amount of Terminators in (which is something I've wanted to do for a long time!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3833412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I want to know about that marauder type unit that can take hounds. Beast and bike style movement all around! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3833588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think the Sonic Dread with blastmaster/CCW+doom siren will shake up some dirt, as long as he comes not too expensive pointswise (<165). S8 AP3 ignores cover = 66/99 problems solved.The sicarian is nice, but think about squadrons of wyverns and bombards. Eager to see how ectofiends hold up against the relic plasma pred. Air force gets a much needed injection of variety, but no vendettas. I just hope the Heretek Magus gets some really creepy stuff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3833887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I think the Sonic Dread with blastmaster/CCW+doom siren will shake up some dirt, as long as he comes not too expensive pointswise (<165). S8 AP3 ignores cover = 66/99 problems solved.The sicarian is nice, but think about squadrons of wyverns and bombards. Eager to see how ectofiends hold up against the relic plasma pred. Air force gets a much needed injection of variety, but no vendettas. I just hope the Heretek Magus gets some really creepy stuff... If they are a decent price points-wise, I think I might have to convert up a few of my Helbrutes... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3833973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I think the Sonic Dread with blastmaster/CCW+doom siren will shake up some dirt, as long as he comes not too expensive pointswise (<165). S8 AP3 ignores cover = 66/99 problems solved.The sicarian is nice, but think about squadrons of wyverns and bombards. Eager to see how ectofiends hold up against the relic plasma pred. Air force gets a much needed injection of variety, but no vendettas. I just hope the Heretek Magus gets some really creepy stuff... If they are a decent price points-wise, I think I might have to convert up a few of my Helbrutes... I have Kaptoored the book for Khaos! Your figure is nearly right for the basic sonic dread (smidge too high), upgrade to blastmaster + warp amp costs the same as a blastmaster on a noise marine squad, half that amount for each upgrade. Not really any creepy stuff for the Magus, but I really like the feel of the list generally, going to sit down this eve and give it a proper read through and maybe come up with a couple of lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 V cool Zeratil, can all hellbrutes take rites? What's the cost of a full kit LaTD horde HQ squad? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Helbrutes can take most of the legacies (any that allow walkers to take them), the main restriction on rites seems to be that anything with daemonic possession or the daemon rules can't take them. Oh, and only 1 per 1000 points, and they're all unique within an army. Points costs vary across the same range as the IA2 legacies approximately. Tough to say on HQ squad, they have a lot of options, all the squads of humans/mutants start really, really cheap (varies between the cost of two and three plasma guns) for either 5 or 10 bodies - depends on whether they are more veteran-y. I reckon you couldn't spend more than about a landraiders woth of points on the HQ squad and that would be if you maxed out bodies, special and heavy weapons and upgrades. The base squad (which includes the arch-demagogue, but not a specialisation for him) is around 3 plasmaguns in cost. So far I really like the book, my only gripe is that I feel (even) more options like malefic ammo would have been nice, but there's a lot to absorb and quite a few units have unique upgrades you can take for them. Oh yes, one interesting thing I noticed that I don't think has been mentioned is that if you embark your 'Technomancer' (abaddon, warpsmith or sorc with malefic) in a transport with Daemonic Possession you may choose to roll/not roll to see if the vehicle eats someone every turn (rather than having to), if you roll and the vehicle eats someone, you get to pick whom it consumes, rather than it being determined randomly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosReigns Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 What do you guys think of the Plague Hulk assuming it hasn't changed significantly from IA: Apocalypse? I really dig Daemon Engines (and Defilers in particular) but I've found vanilla Defilers a bit mediocre for the points cost. On the other hand, the Plague Hulk is cheaper, has a pretty solid weapons loadout and has that tasty 13 front and side armour. The model is pretty cool too - I wouldn't mind picking a couple of 'em up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 What do you guys think of the Plague Hulk assuming it hasn't changed significantly from IA: Apocalypse? I really dig Daemon Engines (and Defilers in particular) but I've found vanilla Defilers a bit mediocre for the points cost. On the other hand, the Plague Hulk is cheaper, has a pretty solid weapons loadout and has that tasty 13 front and side armour. The model is pretty cool too - I wouldn't mind picking a couple of 'em up. The plague hulk appears to be exactly the same as Apocalypse (2013). I'd say it's better than the defiler by virtue of being much cheaper, but not as good as the Soul Grinder from CD, which is what my kitbashed defiler spends most of it's time as. Been looking through the Renegade and Heretic list, overall impressions are excellent, loads of options for mixing up force orgs and themed lists. Personally I shall be making up an allied force for my thousand sons consisting of a mix of Tzaangors (mutants and ogryns/brutes), Spireguard (Vets and similar units) and cult troops (BS2/WS2 dudes). There are a few units that seem to me to be drastically overcosted (The Ogryns and renegade chaos spawn in particular) but the rest seem well costed and effective at what they do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Some interesting ideas so far plus nice to hear from someone with the book - thanks Zeratil :) I'm hoping I can build a useful list for the VIII legion remanants that doesn't need a biker Lord, chaos bikers and oblits to be effective on the tabletop. Not sure how that will work as Forge World haven't got my book here yet tomorrow maybe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 So, can we use the specialist brutes/dreads alongside the dataslate formations? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 There aren't any helbrute unit entries in the book (just dreadnoughts), just the option to take Legacies of Ruin for them, however I see now reason that you couldn't give one of the Helbrutes in a formation one of the legacies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Oh, they're real dreadnoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Grr after checking my account it seems my book still hasn't left the building despite ordering Monday :( I'm now crossing fingers that they have just forgotten to update my account, I've got orders from two years ago only shown as Acknowledge despite arriving on time lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I got an email early yesterday morning, I ordered mine very early on Monday (happened to check the site in the morning). And yes, the infernus, sonic and contemptor are all listed as dreadnoughts, not Helbrutes, although there is some fluff for Helbrutes as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat33.1 Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Do the Contemptors get any kind of crazed rule or are they pretty much as the HH versions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 No crazed rule for them, fairly similar to the one in Apocalyse. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizted86 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Did Zhufor get updated in this book? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I love the Sonic Dread sooo much. BS5 double shot Rending Blastmaster + Doom Siren. Get rekt loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 If Helbrutes can't take the Legacies then that's gonna suuuck =/ But I might end up converting my Helbrutes into Contempters/Sonic Dreads anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 hm, with double shots the sonic dread seems worth it! holy crap the renegade colossus siege bombard is S8!!! AP3 barrage ignore cover pinning tzeentch spawn as (non-compulsory) troops is cheap as chips (61% of CSM price, no mark, units of 3 only) 1-3 Salamanders (AV 12/10/10, fast, open topped transport) as FA for your battle brother Berzerkers/Mutilators/Melee Marines 4+FnP zombies at almost half price compared to cultists Dreadclaw dedicated, but 3x the price of drop pods =/ malefic ammo upgrade confers rending but ridicously overpriced. =/ ferrus infernum DP spawn version works only on explodes, +1 front AV siege dread is okayish, slow, expensive =/ 4th quadrant legacy = 4++ for last hp and 12" fearless bauble for cultists only (not renegades) =/ giant spawn now HS and chaos daemons only renegade elite infantry is overpriced and has less special weapons CSM vehicles lack machine spirit for -10pts, generally overpriced and less options like always Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3834692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 1-3 Salamanders (AV 12/10/10, fast, open topped transport) as FA for your battle brother Berzerkers/Mutilators/Melee Marines Sadly the Salamanders are not transports, just fast and open-topped. However, they can be used in the role of Armoured Sentinels ( since the Sentinels entry seems to be written by someone stuck in 3ed). More weapons, faster, same AV, and much cheaper, so they are not bad at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3835109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Sadly the Salamanders are not transports, just fast and open-topped. DAMN THIS FALSE HOPE so i guess we're down to an arch-demagoge with 30 renegades in chimaeras and some colossus bombards? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3835255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeratil Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 hm, with double shots the sonic dread seems worth it! holy crap the renegade colossus siege bombard is S8!!! AP3 barrage ignore cover pinning tzeentch spawn as (non-compulsory) troops is cheap as chips (61% of CSM price, no mark, units of 3 only) 1-3 Salamanders (AV 12/10/10, fast, open topped transport) as FA for your battle brother Berzerkers/Mutilators/Melee Marines 4+FnP zombies at almost half price compared to cultists Dreadclaw dedicated, but 3x the price of drop pods =/ malefic ammo upgrade confers rending but ridicously overpriced. =/ ferrus infernum DP spawn version works only on explodes, +1 front AV siege dread is okayish, slow, expensive =/ 4th quadrant legacy = 4++ for last hp and 12" fearless bauble for cultists only (not renegades) =/ giant spawn now HS and chaos daemons only renegade elite infantry is overpriced and has less special weapons CSM vehicles lack machine spirit for -10pts, generally overpriced and less options like always I did not notice that the spawn started at 3, serves me right for skimming. CSM get 20 points off for not having machine spirit, not 10, and there are a bunch of the usual CSM vehicle options for them like warpflame gargoyles, dirge casters etc. I agree that POTS is generally worth more than 20 points (and possession worth far less than 15) though. Malefic ammo is very oddly costed, there's no standard cost for it, although it is always high. I think it's worth it on the Sicaran and the AC Fire raptor though. On the sicaran you get 3 HBs and then the suped up autocannon all with rending, and that allows it to threaten anything in the game, even AV14. On the fire raptor it turns the already amazing 4 shot twin linked autocannons into rending beasts of death, giving it extra punch against heavy armour and MCs. The renegade elite infantry with the hot shot lasgun and volley guns is worth a look I feel, 5 man squad with 2 plasma guns and 2 volley guns is pretty nasty for not too many points, although they would need a ride. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3835325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Do any of these vehicles have "Relic of the Armory" special rules? I'd really want to get 2 Sicarans and Fire Raptors with Malefic Ammo, but I wouldn't want to be forced to take 2 or so Warpsmiths =/ Edit: I guess taking 2 of each would cause me to need at least 1 Allied Detachment or go Unbound, but would that rule apply to the army or each detachment? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297945-how-to-use-ia13-to-build-a-better-list/page/2/#findComment-3835344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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