Polythemus Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hi all presuming that GW decides to change the DA flyer, what would you use for specia l rules for the lion engines? I figure Blood angels get special rule for their engines, maybe we could too. I thinking either skilled rider/stealth or somekind of outflank rule. Anythoughts out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I think gw will if anything up the statline on black sword missles, if they do alter our flyer options we will just get the storm raven. Our neph and dt will operate in place of the gunship. Another thing they could do is give it new special rules if some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Nephilim should act like antiflyer but it Works better at Ground Attack... DT should be Ground Attack but it wotks better on Your shelf.. If GW Will redo our codex (My guess is before half 2015) they Will have to rework totally our flyers and gave us access to SR Too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Give the missiles S8 target lock Give the glass cannon of the talon large blast. Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I dunno the overall meta on flyers is pretty broken Group I play with have so much interceptor / Skyfire its not worth taking them, they arrive they get shot down In fact the last time I played against Tau he'd packed everything with interceptor to shut down any DS outflank completely and although the intercept on Eldar doesn't work on the Serpent Shield you'll get spammed with ignores cover serpent shields (S7 d6 +1 shots) prob twin linked in your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The engines supposedly provide both more speed and maneuverability...but the Nephilim and Dark Talon lack both the Supersonic and Vector Dancer special rules which represent this. Granted, I can understand why they wouldn't want to give them both of these rules, but one of them wouldn't break the bank. The Nephilim could be Supersonic (suiting its multi-purpsoe attack fighter pfrofile), and the Dark Talon could be the Vector Dancer (suiting its additional maneuvering jets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 For the engines - could argue that they have vectored thrust like a Sukhoi 35, so Vector Dancer. Only if you moved less than "x" inches though, to try and avoid being OP or suggest they are as maneuverable as a Crimson Hunter for example. As others have said I think the best changes would be in armament statlines. Make the Neph a true air superiority fighter: Missiles with R48 and either S6-Armourbane or S8; R36 S6-rending cannon. Make the HB's optional. Upgrade the Talon just a bit: large blast rift cannon; optional HB's? I still maintain our flyers are not bad, just a bit overpriced in general, and a bit underpowered against certain fliers that are probably going to get depowered soon anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 To be a REAL interceptor the NJF should have BS5 vs flyers while the DT that is a Ground Attack gunship should have Strafing run... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polythemus Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 personally, i cant see us getting any vector dancer if dark eldar didn't get it. outflank however gives a good possibility for getting rear armor which makes current setup of missles better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Hmm flyers shmyers ... I'd be up for the Unforgiven not to have them at all, but have some kind of kick-ass specialist skimmer instead. There, I've said it ^_^ ~I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Honestly, I think GW should scrap the whole Dark Talon idea. The fluff sounded cool but the execution was terrible, based on my read of it (don't actually own one though, since I built a Jet Fighter). If they came up with a new craft to replace the Talon I might give it a shot, but until then I'm (grudgingly) in favor of the Jet Fighter's abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Hmm flyers shmyers ... I'd be up for the Unforgiven not to have them at all, but have some kind of kick-ass specialist skimmer instead.There, I've said it ^_^~I So like a reasonably priced Land Speeder Hyperios...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 How about immune to interceptor on the turn it comes in + a jink buff for a turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larhendiel Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If both variants were like 60 pts cheaper I'm sure they would be much more useful then than they are now, using exact same rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Even if they would be 80 points cheaper I wouldn't use them cause their rules are crappy (DT) to mediocre (NJF)... Considering that the ST is 110 to 145 according to the war gear I think that our flyers should be about 30 points cheaper with some rules corrections (better cannon and hover flight for the DT, better missiles and AA rules for the NJF)... BTW the SR at 200 is a bargain cause it should cost 20 points more just like the SE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 better missiles and AA rules for the NJF)... What do you mean "better...AA rules for the NJF"? Zooming Flyers may use Skyfire if they wish. You want auto-htis or something? Now, what I wouldn't mind having is a few missile options (Str 6 AP 3 Armour Bane, or Str 4 AP 5 Small Blast Ingore Cover). Then I could at least equip it for anti-armor or anti-infantry duties rather than have it be a jack-of-all trades unit, which suck unless they are Super Heavies (which the NJF is not) which can split their fire with impugnity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 NJF jas Strafing Run that is a rule For Ground Attack flyers... Give it "Air Superiority (BS5 vs flyers" and/or Target Lock to blacksword missiles ans i am a happy Man... NJF... 150 points (flyer, supersonic) options: twin linked HB +10 points blacksword missiles range 48" S7 AP2 special rules: "Strafing Run" swapped with "Air Superiority" (BS5 vs flyers/FMC BS4 vs all other units) Dark Talon should be better in dealing damage and not the overcosted vector of a single shot bomb... Dark Talon... 130 points (flyer, hover) special rule: Strafing run... option: twin linked HB +10 points rift cannon: Dual mode dispersed range 36" S5 AP5 large blast blind focused range 36" S7 AP4 heavy1 armourbane blind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 BS 5 vs. flyers is a bit over the top for the Imperium, even Space Marines. Flyers shouldn't exactly be that easy to hit; even for other fliyers. The Missile Lock rule, which the NJF did come with, and which has been fixed in 7E to function with any one shot missile type, could be retained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosRising Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I don't think that S7/AP2 Black Swords will ever fly (no pun intended). That's plasma stats packed into a missile without the Gets Hot rule. Now....if you added the Gets Hot rule....you might have a chance - although I would propose a twist on this. Instead of Gets Hot, Black Swords should get their own rule (Firing Blind?) that says if NJF wants to fire a missile at a (roughly) man-sized model (including Termies), roll a D6. On a 1, the missile's war spirits rebel (or get confused) and the missile strikes the nearest friendly unit (saves allowed as normal) [remember - this is a strafing craft]. If the NJF is firing at anything larger than a man-sized model (Daemon princes, vehicles, dreadnoughts, other flyers, etc) Firing Blind does not apply (the target is large enough that the pilot can line up a decent shot even at high speeds). That would be my suggestion if you wanted a S7/AP2 missile. I was going to call the special rule Snap Shot but that's already taken. Alternately you could update the stats of the Black Sword to S8/AP3 (basically wing-mounted kraks). Just some ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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