Skyclaws or Wolf guard

[Baulder]

Due to a surprisingly cheap last min buy from eBay I seem to have acquired 6 jump pack marines and given the recent fun/success that Littlbitz had running these as a distraction unit I'm extremely tempted to find a spot for a small squad in my current lists. 

 

Normally I run a mid-sized unit of TWC (4/5) with an attached IP and or WL. To support these I usually drop a couple of pods T1 as immediate threats and then have a pack of wolf guard on bikes as a distraction/support unit. Immediately my thoughts are to model one as a RP (with staff) for forward moving psychic support with divination/biomancy and attach the RP to a 5man WG squad 3 with melta bombs and 2 with either frost axes or power axes. I figure this would give me a number of possibilities and comes in at a reasonable 280 (with a runic armour RP, 150/160 without), but the question is "is it worth it?".

 

I thought I'd throw this question out to some of the more experienced players. I know we've had previous discussion regarding the merits of swiftclaws vs. skyclaws. However, now that the wolf guard are cheaper to upgrade (5man 105 base with jump packs) and WS5, with the champions of fenris detachment, I wonder if this may give more 'bang for your buck' than a normal 5 man sky claw pack. 

 

Does anyone have any particular experience running jump pack units (SW or other), personally I've only ever used warp spiders and let's face it they are in a different league. 

[Z00Z]

This is the same question I have in essence, and thnx for bringing it up Baulder. I've been contemplating the pro's and con's of either, limiting factor of pts differences too. I think if I ran a skyclaws pack of 5 it would be with 2 flamers, (85 pts). But then its role would definitely be a horde hunting or specifically to break gunline saturations and cheap bubble blobs. It could also due to mobility be a jump objective capture unit. But I cant see where else a skyclaw has benefits over a WG jump unit. 

 

Having said that, I still think that you need to clearly define or work out just what it is you want to achieve with the WG jump unit. Upgrades become expensive quickly and running both units take up 2 valuable fast attack slots. I think thats the challenge we face, in the past we had a jack-of-all-trades units in the GH's. Now we need to be planning and building each unit with specific roles in mind, otherwise it gets expensive quickly....even if the flexibility is there for upgrade choices. Then of course theres the other issue of do you pay an extra 4pts per model and get bikes instead...an extra toughness pt is an extra toughness pt after all. 

 

decisions decisions :) 

 

Some commentary from the wolf brothers that have tried both in 7th will be most welcome

[Baulder]

Thanks for the response Z00Z, I think you are completely right that it is important to try define a role first before then establishing the effectiveness of skyclaws vs. wolf guard. First off with a small unit like this I'm inclined to try keep them cheap the main reason for this is I'd be looking to take them as a disruption force/combined bodyguard for the RP. The secondary role I'd be keen on the fulfilling is light/medium armour busting. The key aim would be to get the RP to where he needs to be (i.e. in range of the main melee units/main attack) and then (with/without the RP) either join the main attack or hold up/delay support from joining the enemy force sure there would only be 5 but that speed bump could hold up an enemy unit for a turn. 

 

Keeping the points low is key because if the go down then I'd rather it didn't hurt so much, but I think the key thing is balancing price with potential,  this is why I saw the axe/melta bomb set-up as a useful option.  The melta bombs provide a bit of armour cracking if it is needed and then axes give 8 (on the charge) str5/6 ap2 attacks in CC to either finish off light/mid armour or cut down the odd TEQ.

[Spazmonkey]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately. As I have around 13 jump packs.

Personally I think you do it one of two ways.

 

Cheap Skyclaws, 5-10 as a cheap hard hitting unit.

Though I have a WC/WC jump pack lord I run them with as I dont have thunder wolves.

And I love the idea and concept of feral wolves falling from the sky to dismember traitor scum.

 

But for most people keep it cheap, flamers and skyclaws.

 

I think wolf guard are still a good option, but you want to use them for a specific reason, a custom built tool

Jump packs with all combi melta for Mech, or all combi Plas for Infantry and light vehicles.

 

You can also do an all out kitted monster hunter unit. 5 with storm shields and thunder hammers or you weapon of choice....

 

If I have had the models and money I would love to try 5 with Storm shield and Wolf claws.

With the right formations that is WS5 and S5 as well.... re rolling wounds.

 

I honestly think there is potential here, but we need some one to get some games in with it.

Not just one or two, but as a serious part of a list used often enough to actually judge their use and quality over several battles.

 

In summary.

 

Wolf Guard - Specalists units of 5-7 to keep cost down.....

built for a purpose.

 

Skyclaws - Keep em cheap and mean 10 bodies.

they can easily be ignored and then hit like a sack full of soap bars and destroy units.

Of they can soak fire and take heat of other more expensive units.

 

Can also be used as ablative wounds....

 

If you play terrain heavy with line of sight blockers then I think they will be dam nasty... this is why I run a wolf lord with mine.

If you play terrain light less than 30% then you could be in for a bad time.

 

Dont forget in terrain heavy as well you can look for the deep strike and run to spread out...

Again with the right formation you can have them charging on turn 2 and causing havoc

[littlbitz]

My unit weighs in at a hefty 330 points.  Admittidly a point sink at times, but man when they hit, they hit like a ton of bricks.  Very fun to use, and well worth it when they take out that Knight Titan thingy, a Stompa, Death Knight, Rip Tide ect...

I usually advanced them behind the TWC, using them for protection.

 

I think I'm going to build a 10 man SkyClaw "escort" unit for them.

[Frater Cornelius]

Skyclaws, yes. Jump WG, no.

 

Skyclaws are cheap, they can bust tanks very well in melee and are a solid distraction unit.

WG Bikers are 4 ppm more expensive than WG JP but you get TL Bolter, relentless, Turbo Boost, guaranteed HoW and T5 while having the same gear options.

[Donkalleone]

I would run my Skyclaws with 2 Flamer and a WGPL with MeltaBomb. Exactly 100points and can if must go after a tank.

[Astoran]

I ran my 10 Sky Claws yesterday with a Wolf Priest equiped with the Wulfen Stone. They hit like a truck. Points effektive? No...  Fun? Oh yes! (They did kill my buddys Captain in artificer armour, thunder hammer and lightning claw and his squad. The Priest made 6 out of 7 4++ saves)

[Baulder]

So I've been crunching some numbers and am looking at something like this for what I need.

 

5 sky claws 1 with a power axe, another upgraded to a WG with melta bomb (possibly also with an axe) so looking at 105 to 120 pts.

 

This should to a reasonable job as a support unit to help tip the odds in an already ongoing assault, can be a serious threat to low/mid armour tanks and is cheap enough to run with the priest and provide additional protection/wounds.