Wolves taking on the Tyranid threat

[Oz of the North]

So this upcoming week I have a 2k point game against Tyranids, every time I play against nids I always get destroyed, usually tabled. My opponent is notorious for bringing quite a few monstrous creatures. My question is there any tactic without using allies that I would be able to beat my opponent, with out relying on a massive amount of luck. I have most space wolves models and can build quite a few lists.

 

I just wanted to know if anyone has had any luck fighting nids and has advice.

[marvmoogy]

I guess it depends on how you want to play - your style and what you are comfortable with.

 

Until I started my Wolves, I've always been a 'gunline' player so my natural reaction is to go for lots of big guns!  But this is why I started wolves - to try something new!

 

So, if it was me, I'd probably give one  of these deathstar TWC units a run out.  There's only so many puppies a MC can kill before the Thunder Hammer of a Rune Priest takes him to I1 in the next turn....

[Oz of the North]

I am usually an in your face type of player where I use drop pods quite often or some other way to get up close and personal. Though usually against an army that is better than me that is not the best idea, I have tried that idea of using a twc deathstar, but what always happens is before I can get into combat I am always gunned down before the unit can be useful or it gets charged by a gigantic horde and spends the entire game in a tarpit of annoyance.

[marvmoogy]

In that case, have a go at something out of your comfort zone.  6-man GH squads in Razorbacks, lots of LFs and some ranged armour / flier / walkers?

 

something like:

6x6 Grey Hunters with Razorbacks (2 of each TL-LC, TL-HB & Las/plas) = circa 1000 points with a bit spent on wargear

Stormfang with multimelta and lascannon upgrade - 255pts

2x5 man long fang squads circa 320 points (conservative figure depending on which HWs you want  and a flamer for the pack leader)

3x dreadnoughts what, 375 points?  I'd go for autocannons here against Tyranids....or assault cannons

 

that leaves you with enough points to take a nice little HQ (Rune Priest or 2 with the Long Fangs?) and gives you:

circa 21 heavy weapons (at least 7 of which are TL)

 

If you can squeeze in an ADL for anything with wings, alls the better....

 

Deploy as close to your board edge as you can and let them rush you, picking off as many as you can before the assault and then have flame units for when it happens

[Hear da Lamentation]

Death Stars aren't the best in my opinion. Get a couple of units of TWC ... A WGBL ... maybe an iron priest on a TW with some cyber wolves. Your choice how you do it , but leave a biiiig chunk of points for everything else.

 

The way to stop being shot to hell is target saturation. Give them something else to shoot at as well.

Nids have some awesome volume of shot (devil gaunts, shooty carniflexes etc) which will vapourise your TW. So how about a dread or two in drop pods coming in from behind?

 

Storm wolf .... You need something to counter a flyrant

 

Just some thoughts

[TheWolfLord]

Wolves have some good tools againsts nids, normally I'd want to take the fight to the enemy but against nids and Orks I want to soften them up first. Long fangs and large squads of grey hunters are good against nids. Blood claws with a priest, Fenrisian wolves are good screening units especially with Harold deathwolf or Canis

 

Helfrost weapons are good to take, I would say a lvl 2 rune priest with a combi plasma and Helm of a durfast in a must. You can give them a nasty surprise with no cover psychic shooting.

 

Pelt of the balewolf is worth taking for 10 points, I know nids in synapse are fearless but as you should be picking off their synapse creatures this may swing a fight or 2.

[Baulder]

Sounds odd but have you considered ulrik as warlord with a squad of LFs (or 3) his squad with all missiles and flak missiles. Can get expensive but that will drop flying MCs quickly. Preferred enemy for all packs and any other nearby units (razors?) and his unit with monster hunter.

[Hear da Lamentation]

The Nid player I usually play has some great armies. But they are all predominantly shooty. 2 Carni's pumping out 12 str6 twin linked shots turn each will vapourise most "normal" marines.

 

Add 2 flyrants doing the same, plus 2 venonthropes giving a large +2 cover bubble and shooting them doesn't do much to big blobs of devil gaunts. They turn into cheap marines.

 

Personally I think Nids now just need to be creamed in combat where the cover save doesn't help. Plus you can't be shot if you are beating on someone.

 

HDL

[Chaplain Otho]

Can you post up more of what your opponent usually fields I'm particularly interested inw hat he uses for synapse?

 

I've played Nids for the last 2.5 years so I've a fair bit of experience with them.

 

Don't just run in; Nids have a lot of shooting but they are short ranged usually 18 inches although all guns are assault weapons. Therefore long fangs or any heavy weapon with have the range advantage. Whirlwinds are good at killing off hordes and ignoring cover.

 

Try and take out the Venomthropes early quite often they are reliant on their cover save which is only 5+ unless they are in cover so try and snipe them out early.

 

missile launchers and lascannons and plasma will all do a lot of damage against MCs as they are only T6 and 3+ saves,

 

Nids initiative and weapon skill is ually worse than marines so on the charge you will strike first and they usually don't have assault grenades so stand the grey hunters etc in cover and use overwatch and counter attack to your advantage.

 

Also focus on his foot synapse, if he is using two Flyrants he will need warriors, Prime or a Tervigon to keep the rest of the force in line so make these units a priority, if you don't know what is synapse ask,

 

Flyrants are nasty so invest in some anti air.

 

Hope that helps,

[Jarl Deathwolf]

A Lone Wolf kitted out in TDA with a TH/SS can usually holds its own against MC and can tarpit the swarms. I tend to field two if any, as that allows for them to team up on a single group, and to spread out and be a psychological threat. Takes a lot to put 'em down.

 

Long Fangs with missile launchers tend to work too, but against the flyrants, they might be less effective. But with that krak/frag, you can thin the swarm or smite MC. 

 

Thunderwolves with storm shields are always useful against everything. Give one a powerfist and play whack a Carni. Same with ThunderLords.

 

Stormwolf would be good for taking potshots at land forces and contesting the skies. Maybe fill it with Blood Claws and drop them next to a big nasty. Bring it under with a tide of gore!

 

Ven Dreadnought with the Blizzard Shield and Fenrisian great axe would be effective, or at least astoundingly awesome. "I RETURN FROM DEATH ITSELF TO FIGHT MONSTERS ON THEIR OWN TERMS." Or, better yet "PICK ON SOMEONE YOUR OWN SIZE."

[Jochteas]

Ven Dreadnought with the Blizzard Shield and Fenrisian great axe would be effective, or at least astoundingly awesome. "I RETURN FROM DEATH ITSELF TO FIGHT MONSTERS ON THEIR OWN TERMS." Or, better yet "PICK ON SOMEONE YOUR OWN SIZE."

Man I suddenly had the Image of Bjorn coming down from a Pod and hearing "Yes, after 10,000 years I'm finally free, time to conquer Bids!"

 

All to the sound of the power ranges intro of course.

 

Getting back on topic, there is that formation with Bjorn, you could have him and 2 Frostshield dreds drop and really cause some pressure in there back field.

[ContemptuousAngel]

I am usually an in your face type of player where I use drop pods quite often or some other way to get up close and personal. Though usually against an army that is better than me that is not the best idea, I have tried that idea of using a twc deathstar, but what always happens is before I can get into combat I am always gunned down before the unit can be useful or it gets charged by a gigantic horde and spends the entire game in a tarpit of annoyance.

Don't deploy your troops in your drop pods. Walk them on the table turn one. Drop your pods in your opponent's way, equipped with deathwind launchers. This is a nasty trick that I used with Black Templars to great effect. If you have razorbacks, equip some with heavy flamers or assault cannons and the rest with lascannons; this should take care of the nastier infantry and some of the monstrous creatures. 

I hope you post about your game. Tyranids, even more than orks, can really mess you up in the numbers game. Good luck!

[Hear da Lamentation]

He usually plays this sort of thing at 1500 points

 

2 flyrants

Tervigon (no brainier really)

30 gaunts (20 of which are devil gaunts)

2 venom thrones

Zoanthrope

2 shooty carniflexes

 

His tactic is usually to find some aoe cover and squeeze his entire army into it ... Giving a minimum of 4+ cover, if a ruin 2+.

Then he waits there .... Pooing out troop nids and waiting for his flyrant to come on.

Tervigon stays towards the back. Venoms in cover

 

A whirlwind would stop that shenanigans admittedly, but they aren't great against anything else so I don't tend to use them.

 

Long fangs will last until flyrants come on and decimate them.

 

Combat is the way to go against this army I find.

 

HDL

[Oz of the North]

Hear da Lamentation's example is very similar to what I play against. With my opponent just using tervigons to keep creating troops and then using the flyrants to harass everything of mine and then use the tervigons to keep creating more and more units to hold objectives. Or my biggest annoyance is when he spams mawlocs which just utterly destroy my armies if I do not use drop pods or if I do use them and foot slog.

[Oz of the North]

Also brings the question would it be advisable to bring any of the formations in the champions of fenris book?

[Baulder]

Thunderstrike could work well to obliterate those shooty carnifex. Also given that the majority of his units will be moving forward dropping the thunderstrike in the opponents back field later in the game could be very useful. Also have you considered a mortis dread for taking down the flyrants? 

[DanPesci]

 

His tactic is usually to find some aoe cover and squeeze his entire army into it ... Giving a minimum of 4+ cover, if a ruin 2+.
Then he waits there .... Pooing out troop nids and waiting for his flyrant to come on.
Tervigon stays towards the back. Venoms in cover

A whirlwind would stop that shenanigans admittedly, but they aren't great against anything else so I don't tend to use them.

 

 

How do they get 2+ cover? Do nids have cover buffs? (been ages since ive played against them)

 

If the game allows FW, then a predator executioner, taken with the upgrade that gives you ignores cover, is very nasty (Love, love, love this tank). Hammering 3 IC plama blasts into his formation a turn is gonna do some wounds to all those bunched up MC. Just make sure to protect the back/sides of it for when those flyrants come on.

 

You could always go with a ML2 rune priest and hope you get the ignores cover divi power, then sit him with ML or LC long fangs and shoot away. Stick the RP in terminator armour so he can hopefully tank some wounds off the flyrant.

 

[Oz of the North]

What would be the best way to try and deal with mawlocs, they are a unit which can easily evaporate a unit and if not then can go back into hiding and do it again.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Venomthrope now gives +2 cover to any unit with a model within 6" of it. Have 2 and thats pretty guaranteed your whole army .

 

Of course .... there is no cover save for a chainsword to the head :)

 

If you have missile launchers the venoms can be insta killed ... which is a decent tactic .... if you get over the cover save.

 

A Stormwolf is a must against this type of army. You can't ignore 2 flyrants and flakk missiles are too expensive on a very vulnerable long fang unit.

[Leif Bearclaw]

What would be the best way to try and deal with mawlocs, they are a unit which can easily evaporate a unit and if not then can go back into hiding and do it again.

It's inherently tricky, thanks to their deep striking. However, other than it's wounds, the Mawloc doesn't have that good stats. Your best two options are: to not have any juicy targets, so the Mawloc's initial strike is wasted on, say 5 GHs or a Rhino, then blast it with melta/plasma or jump it in assault (can it still go back into reserve if it's engaged in melee?), or try to make it go wrong. There's 2 ways of doing this, sufficiently spread out your troops, so it's first d6 hits give it enough room to place, then beat the tar out of it with guns/assault, or try to tempt it into biting off more than it can chew, and killing itself, examples include SS TDAs, SS TWC and heavy armour. Once it's on the board, Blizzard Shield Dreads, Murderfang, TWC, pretty much all our decent assault options have reasonable odds of putting it down. Essentially, once it's on the board, it's a subpar MC, all you need to do is try to minimise the impact of the DS hits.

 

Disclaimer: Don't have the Nid book to hand, so I'm going off my memory of the Mawloc rules here.