Defiler in 7th (And soul grinders / plague hulk )

[disease]

Supposedly, the defiler is making a comeback in 7th Due to vehicles being more resilient And cool options brought About by IA13

 

Discuss

 

(Edit - this may as well be a place to discuss the merits of soul grinders and plague hulks)

[Kilofix]

There are some things that the Defiler can actually do that others can't. It is still an AV12 walker.

 

Replace the AC with a Power Fist and the Flamer with a Scourge and you get a Walker with 6 Base Attacks (7 on the Charge) that are Str 10 AP 2. That's way more than a Helbrute or Maulerfiend can pull off.

 

Now, it can still get Krak Grenaded to death when in close combat with like Marines.

 

But send it to Assault something like Dark Eldar (just not the Talos) and laugh.

You can also use it against Riptide, Tyranid MCs, even other Super Heavy walkers, etc. - with a little help from the Chaos Daemon Slaanesh Fiend - which gives -5 Initiative to opponents.

 

Also on larger tables, it can sit 72" away and rain Battle Cannon shells (though with IA:13 coming out, I'm going to switch to Renegade Artillery).

[brother_contagion]

I don't have IA 13 but I thought that since the Defiler is a Demon (USR) it couldn't benefit from the Legacies of Ruin. Are there other benefits to it in the IA 13 book?

 

I have 2 Defilers that I use with frequency and to good affect, so if IA 13 gives it upgrades I'd like to know!

[Kilofix]

I don't have AI 13 but I thought that since the Defiler is a Demon (USR) it couldn't benefit from the Legacies of Ruin. Are there other benefits to it in the AI 13 book?

 

I have 2 Defilers that I use with frequency and to good affect, so if AI 13 gives it upgrades I'd like to know!

 

IA 13 won't help the Defiler.

 

What I meant was instead of using the Defiler as an artillery piece, I can ally a Renegade Basilisk / Colossus / etc. to use as an artillery piece (along with a 'better' Renegade units compared to the old Vraks series).

[brother_contagion]

Gotcha. That's how I've always used it in my CSM army. Also used to defend my deployment zone from Deep Strikers/Out Flankers. I give mine an extra DCCW and the TW Heavy Flamer, so 6 attacks on the charge will eliminate regular Marines or other units bar the ones with multiple S6+ attacks in CC. I've found that Krak Grenades don't do much as they generally don't hit or even glance, and since Melta Bombs are at I1, the Defiler will have a good chance to kill the model before it gets to hit.

 

So yeah, I use it as it should be used: artillery.

[Strazhakov]

I believe the Maelstrom of War missions are where the Defiler can shine. He's an expensive swiss army knife that can do lots of thing quite well. Still think he should be 30- 40pts cheaper but I can see its value with tactical objectives. 

 

Too bad I sold my old one on ebay years ago so I can't speak from game experience myself.

[walpurgisnacht]

Pretty sure the cannon range on defiler is 24".

[brother_contagion]

Pretty sure the cannon range on defiler is 24".

 

You're thinking of the Vindicator, which has the Demolisher Cannon. The Defiler has the Battle Cannon, which is 72".

[Lord Asvaldir]

While IA13 doesn't bring anything new for the defiler, I think it's the type of combined R&H/CSM lists that the defiler will be useful in. While it is a rather expensive walker to use just as an artillery piece it would form a great protector of your cheaper R&H artillery which will crumple if anything were to assault them. With the defiler nearby you can have it add its firepower and take care of any assault units, especially deep strikers/outflankers. 

[the jeske]

It costs 100pts to much, untile the cost drops there is nothing that can make it viable. The hulk on the other hand is [sometimes] nice in demon armies.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well it's never going to be the optimal choice, but at least it has a better use now. 

[40kChrista]

Once Soulgrinders, with the new marks, became a thing I never really looked at my Defiler again.  Phlegm, and MoN for the 2+ cover works for me.  My usual opponent doesn't field a lot of Ignores Cover.

[Emperors Immortals]

I still run a defiler sometimes usually for running upfield. If the option to remove the cannon for a points drop existed I'd take it.

 

Thrown at troops and backed up with a mauler and MoK CSM (all of which is cool but a little sucky) he can really contribute. Also staying still for one turn to unleash the cannon can help thin the armour and be in position to counter charge. I've not lost him to troops that lack hsaywire yet, the meltas of course hurt some.

 

The price tag makes me cry though.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The price tag makes me cry though.

 

I think we can all agree to that, not really any way around that unfortunately when considering the usefulness of the defiler. It's always going to be a decent, not a good choice because of that. 

[Iron_Within]

I think we need to think of a defiler in the context of a wider force and that can only be done in Maelstrom of War, in Eternal war things need a killing fast and the Defiler isn't cost effective for it.

That being said having something in your deployment zone with a battlecannon with 72" range means that if a defensive card comes up it's easy VP points instead of playing a rush list and provides all important defence to other backfield units.

[KingBlanco1994]

Ive got 1 defiler i use quite a bit. I find while hes not amazing for the points he cam plink away with his battle cannon at the enemy and make a giant annoyance for the enemy to deal with enabling your land raider and hellbrutes to survive

[the jeske]

That being said having something in your deployment zone with a battlecannon with 72" range means that if a defensive card comes up it's easy VP points instead of playing a rush list and provides all important defence to other backfield units.

 

 

only for those cards you may as well keep a 10-30 cultists mob in your army[am ignoring FW here, ally etc here] and do it for a lot less points and get objective secured. For the same points you can take 3 oblits and get with better weapon utility and better deployment flexbility. What is even worse for defi as defender unit is , the place it is the safest is in melee.

In fact if the defiler was 150 pts and the battle cannon/reaper/etc were a 100pts upgrade[probably multi kit. 2 version of cannons and some sort of crazy chaos shrine/caster thing], it would actualy see play. But then we are more or less talking about what the mauler is right now.

[KingBlanco1994]

Idk i find my defiler survives fine at range as a piece of walking artillery its fine

[the jeske]

Idk i find my defiler survives fine at range as a piece of walking artillery its fine

How offten do you play against:

eldar

tau

marines

necron

tyranids

 

or a combination of those?

[KingBlanco1994]

I play against marines quite a bit crons not often Tau and Eldar every now and then

[the jeske]

Can you post your list then? Or are there any house rules that make the defilers survivablity higher used where you play?

[KingBlanco1994]

Rough idea of the list i normally use

Chaos lord of some kind with terminators with combi meltas power weapons in a land raider

2 hellbrutes

Rhino mounted unit generally with 2 meltas

Nurgle obits

Defiler with Scourge

Those are the kind of lists i run him in

However as im starting to go mono slaanesh i can see him becoming more of a staple (not including daemon allies i lack ap 2 cc)

[the jeske]

Cool, thank you for the list.

[KingBlanco1994]

No problem

[Iron_Within]

in the case of the cultists, they are good for only securing an objective and nothing else, in terms of attacking your opponents units they are useless, they stand there and die and hope for the best whereas the Defiler has a wider utility.

 

3 Obliterators do what Defilers can't; run away after taking two wounds. I'm not saying that Defilers are "better" than oblits, but rather this is a frequently overlooked issue. If your oblits break in you deployment zone there is a good chance they will run off the board. Defilers outrange have a constant gun and don't reduce firepower due to casualties. Do these make them better than Oblits gods no, they just aren't, but oblits have weaknesses that Defilers do not.

 

Also while I've attempted to address your criticisms head on Jeske I think you're missing the point of this thread. This thread is a pointless excercise if those involved simply state "oh X is better so there is no point". This thread IMO is for those who wish to dust off their Defilers and how they may go about doing that. It's how to get the best out of the Defiler, not to simply dismiss it, how to best cover it's weaknesses and make it as cost effective as possible in the wider the context of an army. Ofc. one accepts that it will never be as cost effective as other units in HS but, it's a model gathering dust, and people want to dust it off.