Strong and weak points of BL authors

[Volt]

Truth be told so far I disliked every single Salamander in the Black Library novels, HH and 40k both. Either they are plain, boring or way too humanitarian for a geneforged killing machine...

 

In fact my only problem with the majority of the BL authors is the following, they seem to often forgot that they are writing a 40k novel and they just write a sci-fi action. Allow me to elaborate. I can say that I devour BL books on a weekly basis and so far only in ADB works I have felt that the 40k universe is portrayed in its core concepts. In ADB books we actually read of a quite visceral way that a power armour has an anima, that a space ship has a spirit, a machine spirit and we can read about the countless upon countless layers of rituals, titles and aspects that befit a highly gothic, feudal, almost medieval society in a fictional universe, in space. 

 

For example you read about relic weapons across the books of the other authors, but only ADB goes to the core of the concept "ritual weapon" and what this entails. We read of machine spirits in the other books to but none are near the actual and original interpretation in the setting that is glimpsed in ADB's works, namely the animus of a weapon, its history, its almost sentience... 

 

While other books are fine, and many of them are good reads I find often enough muzing on this, I think I have read a 40k novel but it felt just like an ordinary sci-fi action novel, with none of the grimdark, fedual, gothic aspects one would expect form the setting, aspects which define the Warhammer 40k lore. 

 

Now a redeeming quality of some authors is a rather effective portrayal of the human characters but that is a standard concept, most of them though fail in the portrayal of the true aspects of 40k, the grimdark, the xenos, the hatred, the ritualistic and feudal society, the transhuman, the posthuman, the abhuman and the daemonic...

 

My 2 cents...

Except the Salamanders are known as the entire chapter being Humanitarian. If a Salamander isn't a humanist, he's an outlier, not the norm. They're also all humanitarians as unlike other Chapters, Salamanders spend their days outside of combat caring for the people of Nocturne and effectively serving as their guardians, managing evacuations to the Citadel Cities during the times of geologic strife or just helping out in person. Not to mention that there's no reason for a Space Marine to be a sociopath unless they're purposely made one and cut off completely from humanity.

 

As for the various superstitions in 40k, Salamanders should have little belief or mention of Machine Spirits, as Salamanders build their own gear. They have no reason to even believe in machine spirits when they forged, stamped, and asssembled their own master-crafted weaponry with no Tech Priest even involved in it.

 

Also, 40k itself dispells with what you're posting about, so I don't know what the hell you're going on about. The 3rd Edition IIRC clearly stated that Machine Spirits in vehicles are just human brains snapped out of a poor human and popped into vehicles like Land Raiders. The Black Library certainly goes off on a different vector, but the Codices dispell the smoke and mirriors. Which also makes sense, as in the innovation starved Imperium, human brains are a common, powerful resource. Plus they're a lot more powerful compared to most modern computers.

[Tenebris]

I know that the Salamanders are defined by their humanitarianism but often enough this is the only dimension given to them, second only to the abuse of the blacksmith persona. In HH when they were fighting astartes, not shackled by any mortals to babysit, still the authors did them an injustice, especially in what was to be their book, Vulkan Lives. My impression was that the Salamanders are so much more, so very much more. They are angels with the face of a daemon, they are not just craftsmen but artisans first and foremost, they are not just tribal chieftains, they are also one of the "special legions" a living battering ram for the Imperium of Man, they are not just humanitarians they are also astartes, killers all. The only quote which somehow gave them credit is when Vulkan observes his legions an waxes philosophical how they combine the aspect of the knight and the dragon, the two eternal enemies of all mankind's legends... and this was it. I did not like the portrayal of the Salamanders, because I feel that there is much much more to the sons of Nocturne rather then just the one trick humanitarian/blacksmith pony so overused by the authors. I speak of depth, of context, and the book which should define them for posterity (Vulkan Lives) failed to do the job, in fact overabused the concepts above. 

 

As for the machine spirit, it is the anima, what we would now call the AI, but in the mythological universe of the 40k setting is a machine spirit, a sentience of a machine. An example, Talos in Soul Hunter notes that the machine spirit of his armour is a bastardized thing, made from all too many scavenged parts, a spirit very unique and quite agressive... It is this animus I speak of, this animus that permeates all human technology and which is so very rarely presented in the novels. We speak of people who pray for hours on end before the ON button... you get the idea?

 

They pray because the machine indeed has a spirit (AI to our own knowledge) which across years gains experience, knowledge, a personality and a sentience. The Titans are not just walking robots but their are sentient machines which can very well overwhelm their Princeps with their mighty animus, with their sentience, with their... machine spirit. Most are basic, crude spirits, akin to a dog, to a lesser creature, but the spirits of mighty machines like spaceships, titans, knights can very well have thousands of years of experience, an elaborated personality, an advanced cognition, they feel above and beyond the mere human things which crew them or assume to command them. 

[Phoebus]

I share some of your concerns, Tenebris.

 

It's an unfortunately rare occurrence in a 40k novel when we get to see specific applications of technology beyond guns of various caliber being shot at things.  Sometimes, I feel that the attempt to impress the anachronism, ignorance, and mystification of technology that informs the 41st millennium dumbs down the stories set in it.  Space Marine power armour, for instance, generally gets a throwaway reference like "battle plate".  Specific applications are limited to auto-senses, or the targeting reticles that are superimposed on the Space Marine's vision (and that's a rather recent concept that I think was made popular by a certain author who posts on this forum a bit).  Boltguns are given a similarly generic treatment, and are typically not all that distinguishable from other weapons.  The same applies to how a Space Marine might call into action his geneseed-granted superhuman organs; it's a rare occurrence when we get a reference to something other than a Space Marine's hearts beating (the emphasis being on their plurality rather than their added function) or Larraman's Organ scarring over some wound.

[Tenebris]

Indeed, those things you mentioned Phoebus are some of the main concepts which I find lacking in most novels. I have rarely seen for example a marine using his spit to corrode things, a reason why Soul Hunter was quite a novelty, the superhuman shrieks all astartes are capable due to their additional lung (extreme in the case of the Night Lords) is also a very underused feature of their superhuman biology. Mostly it boils down to the following, run faster, move quicker, strength and endurance with very little of the actual genetic "superpowers" they should all possess, soul tasting, venom spitting, superior cognitive powers (little more than eidetic memory presented in the books and so on), a thing I really lament in other authors and readily enjoy in ADB's books.

 

Same goes for the concept of technological magic, archeo-technology, abominable intelligence, machine spirits, animus and so on... a thing present in every machine of mankind, a thing we call artificial intelligence in M2, abominable intelligence in its most advanced form, machine spirit in its more quiescent, submissive form... It is this added layer of spirituality, spirituality which permeated a feudal society here on Terra and which should be the norm in an universe which is effectively the "middle ages in space", with the "here be monsters" still written on the astrocharts. 

[Phoebus]

I don't know that "Middle Ages in Space" really captures it - for me, at least.  Our historical "dark age" featured widespread regression (social, cultural, technological) and ignorance that was the result of the collapse of empire.  I think of Warhammer 40k as a dystopia that is informed by the religious beliefs that are particular to the Imperium.  The Imperium of Man is stagnant because of systematic corruption:  the Adeptus Mechanicus and (to varying degrees) the Ecclesiarchy enforce scientific ignorance and promote a ritualistic approach to operating what technology exists.  It is a terrifying place not just because of "here be monsters" or the unpredictability of the Warp, but because every journey through space is literally a trip through Hell.  That, in turn, is a powerful context for the paranoia and insanity that pervades the leadership of the Imperium down to the planetary level.

 

As an aside, looking over some of my recent posts, I think I've been coming off as a really negative bastard.  If I sound so negative, though, it's because I have really high hopes for this setting.  Some of it will always be irreconcilable to me: Orks, for instance, are silly to a point that they are contrary (IMHO) to the dystopian feel of the 41st millennium.  For the most part, though, I think Warhammer 40k is an incredible concept.  While it certainly draws on a number of other settings for its material, the stories that are told in it can't be told anywhere else.  With that opinion, though, come high expectations.

 

Everyone knows my opinion on A D-B and Dan Abnett's writing.  Lest people think I'm in it for only their writing, here are some other strong releases by Black Library authors that come to my mind:

 

1. Rob Sanders' Legion of the Damned.  Like Prospero Burns, it received negative attention for its title.  Look inside the cover, though, and what you have is a nice balance between the battle for Certus Minor and the struggles of the protagonist - both his internal, psychological ones, and the external conflict that builds between him and his company.

 

2. C.L. Werner's Siege of Castellax holds back no punches in depicting the cruelty that can exist in the 41st millennium.

 

3. I haven't read any of Chris Wraight's Space Wolves fiction, but Scars was, in my humble opinion, one of the best Heresy novels in years.

 

4. Ahriman: Exile by John French is, in my humble opinion, not just a good look at a great character, but a very interesting study in the occult and psychic realms of the setting.

 

That's by no means a comprehensive list; just something to steer discussion to more positive directions.  :)

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

I think people on this site are to hard on McNeil. Yes, he has had some bad moments (Sharrowkyn, Horus in False Gods, and the time mess up in Outcast Dead) but I feel some of his novels get over criticized for a small screw up.. For example, Outcast Dead, it was a gripping and entertaining novel with interesting characters and solid action and yet it because of the canon screw up it is considered one of the worst novels. And while he does have mess ups, when he writes a good novel he smashes it out of the park (A Thousand Sons, Vengeful Spirit, Fulgrim, Mechanicum, Storm of Iron, The Mars Trilogy, Angel Exterminatus sans-Sharrowkyn). In fact, now that I list this out, I can't really think of a novel of his besides False Gods that I haven't liked.

[Phoebus]

I think it goes without saying that Graham McNeil can write very enjoyable books.  Storm of Iron, for instance is not just required reading (in my humble opinion) where Black Library and Warhammer 40k are concerned, but a formidable science fiction title in its own right.  A Thousand Sons was on the NYT Bestsellers list for a reason.  False Gods gets flack for reasons I don't necessarily understand.  So on, so forth.

 

Maybe I'm too difficult to please, but I honestly don't think I drop the hammer just for small details.  I don't think Vengeful Spirit is a bad book, for example, but I do think that it's a mixed bag consisting of strong characters and ideas mixed with glaring plot holes and really sub-par side-plots.  Similarly, my problem with The Outcast Dead isn't just the fact that it features a headache of a timeline gaffe, but that it depends on a rather uninteresting protagonist and tells a story that's really neither here nor there.  It's strongest point are what pass for its villains, and then mostly because of the Big Reveal about them.  My thoughts on Fulgrim are offered earlier.

 

I don't wish ill on McNeill by any means, and I don't think anyone will ever catch me saying "Don't read something by this guy!"  Every book by McNeill that I've read, I've done so with an open mind... I just haven't enjoyed some as much as I have others of his.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

I think it goes without saying that Graham McNeil can write very enjoyable books. Storm of Iron, for instance is not just required reading (in my humble opinion) where Black Library and Warhammer 40k are concerned, but a formidable science fiction title in its own right. A Thousand Sons was on the NYT Bestsellers list for a reason. False Gods gets flack for reasons I don't necessarily understand. So on, so forth.

 

Maybe I'm too difficult to please, but I honestly don't think I drop the hammer just for small details. I don't think Vengeful Spirit is a bad book, for example, but I do think that it's a mixed bag consisting of strong characters and ideas mixed with glaring plot holes and really sub-par side-plots. Similarly, my problem with The Outcast Dead isn't just the fact that it features a headache of a timeline gaffe, but that it depends on a rather uninteresting protagonist and tells a story that's really neither here nor there. It's strongest point are what pass for its villains, and then mostly because of the Big Reveal about them. My thoughts on Fulgrim are offered earlier.

 

I don't wish ill on McNeill by any means, and I don't think anyone will ever catch me saying "Don't read something by this guy!" Every book by McNeill that I've read, I've done so with an open mind... I just haven't enjoyed some as much as I have others of his.

Oh I totally agree that he has made some glaring mistakes that require whole short stories to fix but i just feel that some elements of the board gives him an undeserved bad rep.

 

And while I agree that the Astropath from Outcast dead was a little bit bland I loved the story through his eyes. So often we see the Imperium, usually the Inquisition, hunting people down but we rarely see it through the eyes of the hunted, which is what interested me about his character.

[SteelPaladin]

I reason that I like The Outcast Dead so much is that it shows a different part of the Imperium than we normally see. I loved all the little bits about how Astrotelepathy works, and just getting to see Terra through the eyes of someone who isn't a post human killing machine was great. Also, the chess game with the big E was a really interesting concept. I find that McNeill is best when writing about the less trodden areas of 40k lore: the mechanicus, astropaths, psykers, etc. 

[Volt]

I share some of your concerns, Tenebris.

 

It's an unfortunately rare occurrence in a 40k novel when we get to see specific applications of technology beyond guns of various caliber being shot at things.  Sometimes, I feel that the attempt to impress the anachronism, ignorance, and mystification of technology that informs the 41st millennium dumbs down the stories set in it.  Space Marine power armour, for instance, generally gets a throwaway reference like "battle plate".  Specific applications are limited to auto-senses, or the targeting reticles that are superimposed on the Space Marine's vision (and that's a rather recent concept that I think was made popular by a certain author who posts on this forum a bit).  Boltguns are given a similarly generic treatment, and are typically not all that distinguishable from other weapons.  The same applies to how a Space Marine might call into action his geneseed-granted superhuman organs; it's a rare occurrence when we get a reference to something other than a Space Marine's hearts beating (the emphasis being on their plurality rather than their added function) or Larraman's Organ scarring over some wound.

The one thing I hate and how the BL seems to forget a lot is this stupid modern 40k idea that power armor is skintight, when in "reality", the armor is incredibly thick and made up of multiple layers of metal, ceramic, metal fibers (much like the Crysis Nanosuit) that make up muscles that allow the suit to move, life support, food storage, liquid deposits, etc. The Sibbering idea of power armor shouldn't even exist.

[Veteran Sergeant]

 

3. I haven't read any of Chris Wraight's Space Wolves fiction, but Scars was, in my humble opinion, one of the best Heresy novels in years.

 

I dunno. I like his style and he's actually got a knack for prose and storytelling, but the action segments in the most recent Space Wolves novel, at least the one I read part of, are long on heroics, but have absolutely zero suspense. The protagonists are nigh on invincible, and there is never the feeling of any danger or drama. The bad guys have conquered the whole planet, pressing the weary defenders to their last bastion of hope. Then the handful of Sisters and Space Wolves run forward, none of them die (that were depicted in the narrative at least) and they recapture the lost outer walls. How did you guys lose them in the first place? Then we're told that there's some danger, but the Space Wolves run out and destroy all of it. Except that Space Wolf that almost got blowed up. Yeah. Like that was gonna happen. Nope. Dives out of the way at the last second. Then we're told there's some danger, then the Ecclessiarchy shows up with a bunch of drop pods (yes, drop pods) and saves they day, and Njal Stormcaller kills all the Plague Marines in one go.

 

It's like "Well, I'm kinda interested to read what happens next because what's happening around the fight scenes with those shifty Ecclesiarchy guys is fairly intriguing, but I also kinda hope nobody fights again in this novel because those parts are terrible."

[Phoebus]

Veteran Sergeant, I almost got started with a long post that deals with much of what you just went over (in terms of combat scenes), but then I decided not to. I'm pretty sure most of the posters contributing to this topic have read it once or twice before, and I doubt they're interested in wading through it again.

Bottom line, I'm sorry to hear that this was the case with Wraight. That having been said, I'm not shocked... and I hope he gets over that particular hurdle/finds the sweet spot of balance and apropos heroism.