Vehicle Squadrons?

[Fatespinner]

I play against an Astra Militarum player locally who often fields mind-boggling quantities of tanks and infantry while still retaining a battle-forged list due to being able to take his armored units in squadrons of up to 3.  Often this results in 2-3 squads of 2-3 Leman Russ tanks and 1-2 squads of Wyverns/Hydras, which means that he's usually got 8-10+ tanks on the field and my CSM/Daemons army never seems to have enough anti-vehicle firepower to handle all that heavily armored, blast-spewing dakka.

 

I can't seem to find anything in the core rules about what can and cannot be taken in squadrons, so I assume it must be in the codexes somewhere.  Am I missing something?  Is there anything to prevent me from taking, say, three Maulerfiends in a single heavy support slot as a squadron?  It would make them much more functional as a unit since every time I've fielded them individually before they get peeled apart in the first turn.

[Teetengee]

There is nothing allowing you to do so. The AM codex specifically states they may be taken in units.

[Venemox]

As an aside:  With the rules for moving squadrons, if they're not having at least some issues maneuvering and getting lines of fire, there is not enough terrain in play.

[Kristoff]

I play against an Astra Militarum player locally who often fields mind-boggling quantities of tanks and infantry while still retaining a battle-forged list due to being able to take his armored units in squadrons of up to 3.  Often this results in 2-3 squads of 2-3 Leman Russ tanks and 1-2 squads of Wyverns/Hydras, which means that he's usually got 8-10+ tanks on the field and my CSM/Daemons army never seems to have enough anti-vehicle firepower to handle all that heavily armored, blast-spewing dakka.

 

I can't seem to find anything in the core rules about what can and cannot be taken in squadrons, so I assume it must be in the codexes somewhere.  Am I missing something?  Is there anything to prevent me from taking, say, three Maulerfiends in a single heavy support slot as a squadron?  It would make them much more functional as a unit since every time I've fielded them individually before they get peeled apart in the first turn.

Yes, it is in the codex. Chaos Space Marines don't have Squadrons natively, I think, so you won't find it there. Loyalist Marines do in the Land Speeders.

 

But IG/AM are the king of Squadrons, though. Most of their non-Squadron vehicles are Dedicated Transports.

 

Basically, it's like the Obliterators and Mutilators, where you start with a unit of one, but can add more to the unit for the same price.

[Leonaides]

Dont try to outshoot guard for a start. Squadons are horribly vulnerable in assault as the damaging hits carry over like wounds on normal units. Vector strike with helldrake, deep strike oblits in his rear armour, outflank or drop pods if you can. Failing that, go for the gutsy deep strike with daemons so close he cant shoot you very well or use his own tanks as cover from the others to minimise the incoming fire when you deep strike. Even 3 or 4 s4 daemons getting a charge off against a squadron will start to tear abig hole in his gunlines.

[Jacinda]

Pick a unit from your codex. Any unit. We'll use Obliterators as an example. In that unit's army listing it says what the unit composition is. In this case 1 Obliterator. This is the minimum size for that unit. The entry also says what upgrade options can be taken. Adding models to the unit are listed in the Options. "May add up to two Obliterators ..... XX pts/model." Every unit in every codex has something similar.

]Maulerfiends! Check out the army list for these bad boys. Unit composition: 1 Maulerfiend. Options: it only has the one to replace the magma-cutters; there is no option to add more to the unit.

It works the same way for the guard. In the codex they have, for example, the Wyvren Tank Battery. Unit composition is 1 Wyvren tank. Upgrade options include adding up to 2 more Wyvren tanks at XX points each. That's how you know how many vehicles a squadron my take.

As far as how to handle an IG parking lot ... assaulting them works well. Even those Russes only have AV 10 or AV 11 on the rear so a small squad with krak grenades can kill them. Easier said than done, I know. Also, don't forget that with a squadron, once you kill the closest vehicle any extra hits roll to the next closest vehicle of the squadron. That way your good rolls are seldom wasted.

[Fatespinner]

Thanks for the input, everyone.  I think I will have to invest in another squad of Obliterators, then.  I currently only have one which I usually DS in with a PF Lord of Nurgle in Terminator armor to give them Fearless and a little extra oomph.  My dual Maulerfiends have yet to survive long enough to make it to assault with him, so I'm probably better off running more Obliterators in those slots anyway, even if they are kind of absurdly expensive.

 

The Heldrake is much less effective than I would've hoped since Vector Strike always resolves against side armor (AV 13 on a Russ) and only grants a single S7 hit against non-skimmers.  The Hades Autocannon can occassionally get a glance in here and there, but getting at the rear armor is very difficult with the flyer because they tend to remain near the board edge.  Maybe a flying Daemon Prince with the Black Mace...

[Fatespinner]

Oh, another question:  As I understand, vehicles cannot be "locked in combat."  Does this mean that I could assault the tanks, dish out some power fist hits, and then shoot them with the same squad next turn (assuming they're still around)?  Since neither unit becomes "locked down" I think I should be able to, though any surviving tanks will probably about-face to address the assaulting unit on his movement phase.

[Kristoff]

Oh, another question:  As I understand, vehicles cannot be "locked in combat."  Does this mean that I could assault the tanks, dish out some power fist hits, and then shoot them with the same squad next turn (assuming they're still around)?  Since neither unit becomes "locked down" I think I should be able to, though any surviving tanks will probably about-face to address the assaulting unit on his movement phase.

So long as said Vehicle does not have access to a WS, which is primarily Walkers and Chariots, correct. Remember, too, they can shoot back first.

[Jacinda]

Oh, another question:  As I understand, vehicles cannot be "locked in combat."  Does this mean that I could assault the tanks, dish out some power fist hits, and then shoot them with the same squad next turn (assuming they're still around)?  Since neither unit becomes "locked down" I think I should be able to, though any surviving tanks will probably about-face to address the assaulting unit on his movement phase.

In these cases we usually step back an inch on our next turn so the unit can get the charge bonus again. If you don't care about the extra attack, fire away at point blank range.

 

Taking the example a step further, the unit in base contact with a vehicle could fire at a different target in their next shooting phase and still remain engaged with the vehicle during the assault phase.