Competitive AM/IG

[primeth]

So I'm planning on going to the Las Vegas Open in February, and I've been struggling to come up with a competitive list/tactics that can take or at least put up a fight against many of the current tournament winners.

 

has anyone been using any super competitive builds? or heard of any hard to beat tactics?

 

I've got many models, and am not afraid of buying models to get me where I need to be.

 

thoughts

[WarriorFish]

That's a very open question, it'd help if you narrowed it down a bit. Is there a type of build you're thinking of or particular opponents you struggle with? Mechanising your army is usually a good plan as the Chimera is a good unit so only gets better in number, you'd just need to decide on the Vet/Platoon split (if at all) first. Just so you know, the Guard codex is strong but it isn't one of the "top tier" codices so you may want to supplement them somehow if you want to complete more, for example a Knight or something.

[cypherthefallenangel]

Armored sentinels and knight titans are great against most tournament armies but specially demons. Eradicators are great against xenos specially eldar and tau. Stormsword is probably the best superheavy. It kicks ass against everything. Wyverns are cheap and very effective anti infantry. 4-6 vet squads in chimeras is a solid base of troops. Forward sentries vets for your campers and grenadiers for your assaulters is how i run them and they've worked great for me. Demolishers scare the crap out of all opponents. Very effective in both ability and psychological warfare.

[WarriorFish]

Good post! Eradicators will annihilate anything short of Marines quickly. Wyverns are almost an auto-include for a competitive list thanks to their low cost and despite the points increase and capacity downgrade Vendettas are still worthwhile thanks to their versatility in tackling enemy flyers, tanks and providing some small scale troop insertions :)

[primeth]

not thinking any build in particular, just looking for direction. I can field a lot of different models. I like taking my Baneblade, I'm not against getting a Knight, I own 6 valk/vendettas, 6 lrbt. Hundreds of troop models, etc etc.. (It's never enough is it?)

 

I like a mix of armour and troops though and feel weird if I don't take heavy weapons teams.

 

I prefer orders over wyverns to negate cover, because you can get a variety of weapons to ignore instead of just one profile.

[WarriorFish]

I like a mix of armour and troops though and feel weird if I don't take heavy weapons teams.

A good way to spot an old veteran of the Guard Generally I think that as long as you're sensible about your list you can build a strong one from the Guard codex. Not having any obvious standout superior tricks or whatever is a boon in that sense :)

[primeth]

Has anyone tried the aegis line? One build I'm playing with in particular had an aegis and vets with forward sentries for a 3+ cover.

 

Maybe your right and it the old player in me by I love a balanced list. However to be a tournament winner I think I need to go all out cheesy gouda.

 

A list I made that's over the top incorporates a knight, a baneblade, 2 vendettas, and 3 vets in chimeras. Thoughts on something like that?

[David Ravel]

I tried one game with a foward aegis line (maybe 6'' in front of my deploying zone so I could reach it turn 1) where I hid two veterans teams and a CCS with cloaks all armed with plasma and lascannon spamming the ignore cover order. With the vox I was able to had it pretty much everytime, and it was a very vicious firebase at 24''. You could also add Coteaz in there for a 12'' surprise on anything that deepstrike. I guess the best support you could give this is tons of Taurox (which I did because of the twinlinked thing which made it even usable against flyers when you have like 10 of them) or Chimera for lots of mobile body + firepower with objective secured. Maybe add in a Knight for fire magnet/anti-MC. 

 

I also like the surviviability of blob. I wanted to try a dual knight dual blob list. Add in a priest in each + maybe 2 valkyrie or vendetta (to move the PCS and have some mobile scoring + anti-air) and you can get a very decent army (if you lack scoring, just add some heavy weapon team or vets with foward sentries). 

 

Hope those ideas help you ! 

[Thoqqu]

I thought that one has to place the aegis line within deployment zone...?

If I'm wrong please point me towards the part that says otherwise.

[WarriorFish]

Aegis is good for defensive operations, otherwise your plan sounds quite mean. A bit low on numbers which has some fragility but in exchange you get lots of guns.

 

As for aims, if you want to be the best you need to aim for cheddar - the God-Emperor of all cheeses! ;)

[Boomkapow]

If I take an aegis I like taking a platoon (2-3 Infantry Squads). You can combine the squads for prescience and order efficiency. Also put a priest in there and it's a very resilient unit. I definitely agree on the wyverns. Even if your orders can make a unit ignore cover, it is still 4 str 4 blasts, reroll scatter, reroll wounds (vs infantry). Lastly, Leman Russ' are just silly now that only a 7 will kill it in one shot.

[march10k]

I would actually avoid HWT in a competitive setting, fluffy though they might be.

 

For HQ, I would recommend Pask.  If you put him in a punisher, he'll be ridiculously killy, and the logical wingman is probably an eradicator, since it handles the one thing he doesn't (cover saves) and is more or less range-matched.  Personally, though, I like putting him in a vanquisher (aka PasQuisher) on top of a skyshield with a LRBT (lascannon hull mount) wingman.  That gives him commanding fields of fire and a 4++, which is pretty great for preserving that slay the warlord VP, not to mention that he's only marginally less nasty against heavy tanks, although admittedly rubbish against troops (you have other stuff for that!).

 

For troops, I currently favor forward sentries with autocannons and chimeras at 145 a unit, and the chimeras usually roll empty while the vets pour on the autocannon fire from a suitable covered position.

 

vendettas and armored sentinels for fast attack...An AV12 walker squadron is just a great deterrent against corn dogs, since they can't hurt the sentinels and can't "our weapons are useless" their way to freedom.  Otherwise, they do draw some  fire away from the chimeras, which is valuable, too.  

 

Elites...no thanks!

 

Heavies...I like two solo demolishers and a squadron of two wyverns (on the skyshield with the Pask squadron), but if I were taking punisher pask with eradicator wingm(a/e)n, that would be a bit redundant with the wyverns, so I might take hydras instead, and not spend 340 points on a pair of vendettas...

 

/edit/

 

I'm not a fan of the Aegis Defense Line, it's everyone's go-to, every opponent expects it and has a plan to defeat it.  OTOH, skyshields are less common and harder to counter...you really need to get an assaulty unit on top to do anything about the tanks that I stash up there...and since they have excellent range, I ensure that the skyshield is as far away from any objectives (and the rest of my army) as possible so that it's basically a one-way trip for most units that might hunt Pask down up there...just not time to get over there, kill everything on top, and still influence the rest of the fight.  The only one who's ever pulled it off did it with 20 flesh hounds with herald of khorne, they were able to spread out so much that they could basically execute simultaneous charges in each deployment zone, there was no place remote enough to sideline Pask's assassin...(actually, that's also the only time he's ever died on me, lol)

 

The ideal way to use my tactic is to overload one side of the board, preferably on the enemy half of the table, with objectives, then put the skyshield 18" in from the opposite board edge.  That'll let the wyverns (not to mention PasQuisher) command most of the table while being far enough from the action that it's inconvenient to go after them.  Then run the chimeras up the objective side of the board behind a wave of demolishers and sentinels with the skyshield element and the dismounted forward sentries providing fire support.  Never-sufficiently-damned daemons are the only ones who have ever beaten me, and actually they always win against me, it's a really really bad matchup for guard.  But I hear that a culexus assassin just royally screws them, so that would be a good insurance policy...against witches in general, but especially daemons.

[Thoqqu]

I kind of dislike the idea of adding priests to units that are camping behind aegis.

They can't go to ground and that sort of defeats the whole idea of defence line... 2+ is way better than 4+

Just use get back in the fight and repeat in following turn if necessary.

[march10k]

I kind of dislike the idea of adding priests to units that are camping behind aegis.

They can't go to ground and that sort of defeats the whole idea of defence line... 2+ is way better than 4+

Just use get back in the fight and repeat in following turn if necessary.

What's really nasty if you want to go that route is spamming veteran squads behind an ADL with a CCS or two in chimeras behind them, it's effectively a permanent 2++ combined with BS4 heavy weapons!  I wouldn't bother with the carapace or the chamelioline cloaks, though...the cloaks are useless if you're going to ground and most cover-denying shots are AP4 anyway!