Conn Eremon Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Any input I have will be in this red font. Please note that I’ll likely only comment on something I see that’s off, that I feel could be better or raises questions that could benefit an answer. If I didn’t touch upon something, it likely means that I was more or less okay with it as is. Why was the Chapter founded: As a Crusade Force, tasked with retaking worlds lost to the Imperium and helping defend its worlds. When was the Chapter founded: Unknown (presumed M.32/Third Founding.) Progenitor: The Raven Guard. (Possibly taken from the Revilers Chapter?) Gene-seed Purity: A New Generation; although fiercely independent, the Chapter still maintains close relationships with their Primogenitor. Chapter Demeanour: The Chapter has moved away from the extensive use of guerilla tactics their Progenitors are famous for, and have instead chosen to specialise in air assault tactics & manoeuvre warfare whilst still maintaining the patience and tactical insight of their Primarch. Gene-seed Deficiency: The Sable Hawks gene-seed bears all the same problems associated with that of the Raven Guard. Chapter Flaws: We Stand Alone; The Sable Hawks are a very independent Chapter and rarely work alongside any other Organisation save for those who share their gene-seed. What type of planet is the Chapter's Home World: N/a. The Sable Hawks are fleet-based, and possess a number of ancient ships. How closely does the Chapter follow the Codex: They are a slightly divergent Chapter, with each of the Battle Companies permanently maintaining their own Veteran and Scout squads, allowing them to operate independently for longer. Combat Doctrine: The Chapter favours the use of air assault tactics & manoeuvre warfare, launching lightning assaults with gunship-borne infantry squads who bear down on the enemy and unleash a torrent of mid-range fire before re-deploying to attack the next target. Special Equipment: Traditional weapons; They tend to favour boltgun based weaponry. Chapter Beliefs: Revere the Primarch; As with most older Chapters, the Sable Hawks do not view the Emperor as a God, and instead have placed their hearts and faith in the memory of the Primarch. What is the current status of the Chapter: Endangered; Currently less than 300 Marines after an arduous campaign to destroy Waaagh! Skullstompa. Using the FFG Chapter Generator is all well and good (and immensely, fun I’ve gone through it like three dozen times), but earlier you mentioned how the origin of your Chapter is inextricably linked to the reorganization of the XIX Legion following the Heresy. Why then does your Chapter not adhere to the Codex organization, which is that reorganization, and in a way that does not seem to have a foreseeable benefit? Granted, not all deviations from the Codex are an attempt to improve upon it. After all, the most deviant Chapter of all, the Space Wolves, suffers from that deviation. But it would be good to have a reason why, if it’s kept. Which I would recommend not, or at least don’t keep it just because it was rolled. What I like the FFG most for is to add a little something random to the Chapter, but ultimately shape the Chapter upon its own character. If they conflict, the character wins the exchange every time. Maybe you’ll keep it the way it is anyways, but at least you’ll have provided a reason born of their character. As an aside, I like that the Chapter is endangered and actually feeling threatened in the current stage of 999.M41, even if it was based on a rolled table. Sable Hawks have a tendency to brood. Their strong sense of duty leads them to take their failures on in a personal way. (You see this in the way Corax is said to have purged the abominations himself, and the way he feels he has let the Emperor down after Isstvaan.) This brooding has the potential to lead a Sable Hawk Captain down a very dangerous path, into heresy or depression, or perhaps worse, into making riskier and riskier decisions. It is this dark aspect that the Chaplains protect against. They remind a Captain that he has more than one duty. He has a duty to the men of his Company, to care for them, and to never spend their lives uselessly or needlessly. He has a duty to the Imperium, and it's citizens, to protect them, to ensure their safety, and their freedom. The Chaplain helps the Captain to balance those duties, and to use them both as levers to prevent that darker side of their nature from moving to the fore. When a Captain starts taking more dangerous risks, the Chaplain reminds him of his duty to his men. When a Captain slips into a despondent state, having failed to achieve an objective, and thereby having to watch the destruction of a world, or even a sector, the Chaplain reminds him that, even though those worlds have fallen, there are more citizens in the next sector, and they, too, are relying on that Captain to keep them safe, even if they don't know it, and to spur him back into action before it is too late. The Chaplain serves a similar function to the men of the Company, as well, reminding them of their duty to serve to their utmost, even unto death, on behalf of the citizens of the Imperium, ensuring that individual marines don't spend too much time brooding over their personal failures, as well as keeping an eye out for those taking heavy risks they don't need to take. Space Marines suffering depression, eh? Seems legit, to be honest, and is one of the many facets of the Imperial Fists and Raven Guard. But, you set this up by calling it one of their darker traits, but only show us how they work through it and what can trigger it. What this would benefit from is actually showing us what it is. What does it mean that a Sable Hawk Captain becomes despondent? What is the Chapter and its Marines like when they are in this state? The Librarian, on the other hand, is the keeper of many secrets. They are Intelligence Officers of a sort, but not in the usual sense. The Sable Hawks, like the Raven Guard, know many secrets of the Imperium. Where other Chapters, even from the First Founding, have forgotten much of the technology from the days of the Crusade, the Sable Hawks remember, and they watch, especially for those lost things that could be dangerous in the hands of Chaos. It is the Librarians who cull and curate this ancient knowledge, and who piece together clues from what they see from mission to mission, with fragments of knowledge, to realize when there exists a threat, and to raise it to the attention of their Captain to be dealt with. Now that I see that it is the Librarians involved in this relic hunter business, I wonder: Where do the Techmarines factor in? The majority of Imperial relics are technological/mechanical. The Librarius seems to feature prominently, but what about the Chapter’s Forge? If they’re detached from the ‘relic hunter’ aspect of the Chapter, why? If they are a part of it, then what is their role? What relationship do they have with the Librarians? Both of these positions deal with knowledge, and with analysing the facts at hand. However, where the Captain turns his analytical skill towards the prosecution of battle and the defeat of the enemy, these two have a different focus in front of them. The Chaplain's focus is the Company itself, watching for marines gone astray from their duty in any way. The Librarian's is outward, following the information, and piecing intelligence reports together with the vast knowledge of the Chapter to identify threats and risks. This split of focus is complementary, and, like so many other things about the Sable Hawks, requires discipline and focus on the part of all three officers. This is linked, as well, to the autonomous nature of the Sable Hawks Companies. A Captain is given a longer leash in the Sable Hawks, because they have this complementary analysis going on, their own discipline backed up by that of two other officers, at all times, and the threats they face are in many cases beyond what even other Astartes go up against, because only the Sable Hawks, and their primogenitor; the Raven Guard, know the secrets of things like the Bloodtide. I feel like you’re type-casting your Chapter into operating or organizing itself only one way, which feels restrictive. Is the Chapter always split along Company lines, acting independently from the others? What about the relationship between Reserve and Battle Companies, at the very least? However, this has left me wondering what do I call the planet (& it's people)? And how does a Chapter end up favouring air assault tactics when they recruit from a populace that has an ingrained belief in the use of stealth & guerilla warfare?? Would the 'relic hunter' idea still be feasible? (Maybe use their hunter way of life to explain it?) If I may suggest, Yavanna as the name of the planet. It’s an obscure Tolkien reference, of a goddess of the flora and fauna, but has a Native American-y sound to it, I feel. The people could be Yavannians, Yavanni, whatever. I think the attributes you want to add can be done rather simply by expanding/including two aspects of their home world. One, their religion that focuses on the Great Eagle and the Raven. Their primary deities are birds. They arose as myths from tales told of when the Imperium came from the sky and waged war against those who would likely become the daemons and anti-gods of their religion. Stands to reason that the “sky” would be holy, as would those who occupy it. The people itself have no capability of flight, but they do have a reverence for it. That is what could carry over, including their own talents for stealth and guerilla warfare. It’s here that I’d make another suggestion: Incorporate hawks in the world’s belief system. This Chapter is the Sable Hawks after all. Keep the Great Eagle and the Raven, perhaps the Hawks are seen as the Raven’s army. Just try not to go all Guardians of Ga’hoole with it. You can include ‘One’ in the Combat Doctrine section, if your Home World section overflows. Two, dot your world with relics, and incorporate them into your beliefs. The Imperium of Man waged bloody war on this world. Something had to have been left behind, and more than likely it would have been several somethings. Probably not anything still operational or salvageable, unless the XIX Legion was unable to recover it. But these are the remnants left behind, and, more importantly, they are irrefutable evidence that the gods exist and walked among them. Sounds to reason that any such relic found would have great import, no? Sacred, even. I can imagine wars being fought over them. I can imagine old men of high stature, regaling the young about the tales of their people, shaking brass bolter shells tied together. I can imagine a great warrior, accepting a spear consisting of a solid rod tied to a torn shard of metal, as his brothers and sisters yell loudly in jubilation and dance. I can imagine a hut, filled with thick smoke and the monotone mutterings of a holy man, as he rubs within his hands finger bones of strange shape and size. I can see bloodied fingernails claw at mossy rocks, as two damned souls struggle over a long claw with too many points. I can see a tribe preparing for war, for the sake of war, because the whispers from the small iron cave their chief has made his own demands only blood. You can include ‘Two’ in your Beliefs section, if the Home World section overflows. There's also this lovely little quote: "Only in silence the word, only in dark the light, only in dying life, bright the hawk's flight on the empty sky." Ursula K. Le Guin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298629-the-sable-hawks/page/2/#findComment-3930883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekim_Trub Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Firstly, I would like to say thank you for taking the time to provide such an in-depth response Conn Eremon, it is very much appreciated. I will try to answer all the questions you have raised, and make sense, but this is quickly typed up whilst at work as I am having laptop difficulties just now. The results I got from the FFG Chapter generator were actually 'cherry-picked' and not rolled, as I only used it to give myself a credible foundation to work from. The deviation to the organisation of the Battle Companies was through choice, as I seen it as an evolution of sorts from the Codex Astartes, one that would allow the Companies to operate as self-contained battle forces and also eliminate the need/reliance upon support from the rest of the Chapter. I also choice to have the Chapter as endangered as I thought it would be 'cool' to have the Chapter standing on the cusp of either a last, glorious hunt or the long road of recovery, especially as we are supposedly in the "End Times" of 40K. (Also, I plan on having them rushing to the aid of the Raven Guard in defending Deliverance from Waaagh! Garaghak, willing to sacrifice themselves if need be to ensure the survival if their Progenitor.) As for the 'despondent state'' I imagined the Sable Hawks to take a much more grim/dark view of the Galaxy around them, which would lead to them being a lot less caring in their attitude towards collateral damage & civilian casualties, something they normally take great pride in minimising where possible. (Potentially see them succumbing to bouts of 'Sable Blind'??) The Chapter's Techmarines have been a source of some personal debate, as I was unsure how the Chapter's relationship with the AdMech was going to be- and given a Techmarines dual loyalties to the Chapter & Mars, I was unsure how they would react to that situation tbh. My first thoughts were that they would help the Librarians in gathering/providing Intel on the relic, as well as helping the Captain devise the best strategy to secure said relic and then they would deploy after the initial fighting to retrieve the relic. They would also act as a liaison between the Sable Hawks & the AdMech, ensuring the relationship remains favourable should the Chapter be forced to destroy a relic or ensure it does not leave their possession. Hmmm.....I admit I had never thought of how the Battle Companies operating so independently could be restrictive until now. I suppose I just envisioned them as carrying out a 'tour of duty' lasting a few decades before returning to the Chapter proper to re-supply and replace their losses from the Reserve Companies. And as for the Reserve Companies, I envisioned them as operating as support to the elite First Company as they carried out their own missions, and as fighting as a combined army selected from the four Companies when required to. (With promotion to a Battle Company seen as an honour and what every Battle-Brother aspires to.) Their home world is now named Yavanna! And it's people, the Yavanni. I really like the name, and the reason behind it works perfectly. Thank you sir! Originally, I had planned on having the Sable Hawks as 'sons of the Raven' to further elevate/separate them from the populace, as well as to make them divine warriors in their eyes, and to make selection to become one a great honour. However, I am now concerned that making them a Third Founding Chapter may not leave them enough time between the coming of the Great Eagle/Raven and the arrival of the Hawks for the religion to have fully formed. That quote is great. It relates to their role as Astartes in my head, they are the silent heroes who operate in the darkness to allow the voice and light of the Emperor to reach the citizens of the Imperium- and only in death do they find peace and release from their duty to the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298629-the-sable-hawks/page/2/#findComment-3931073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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