Another TWC thread...

[marvmoogy]

Greetings gentle-wolves, 

 

I have just bought a box of TWC.  This is box 1 of 2 and is pretty much the finishing minis for my army.  (for now at least...)

 

I'll be deep striking the majority of my army with pods and a storm wolf.  There'll be 1 5 man GH squad and some long fangs on the table along with the TWC.

 

Tere'll be 5 'normal' TWC and 1 Iron Priest.  Bearing in mind I'll be bringing the IP (who'll be walking his dogs at the time), how would you load out the TWC?  I'm torn between the extra attack and the 3++ of the storm shield....

 

what would you do and why?

 

Cheers!

[Spanish_Muffin]

For me, it all depends on the enemy, so if you're table group is all about the WYSIWYG, then magnetization is your best option if you can do it.

for me, depending on who I'm against, the load changes a bit, especially for what I need them to do.

Am I against Normal Marines? Then 3 double Wolf claws, with 2 wolf claw/ storm shield is usually my go to, for that sweet, sweet no armour save.
Am I against Tzeetch Marines and Mages? Then I usually load for bear on storm shields.
Do I need them to kill metal boxes, or tie up huge creatures? Than a combination of TH/SS are my way to go.

But honestly, if I'm not deathstaring them, I like to keep them cheap and dirty. 2-3 storm shields, and then keep their regular gear - you can spend the 150 pts you just saved elsewhere, and they'll still do ok.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Me, I like all stormshield and one power fist. Most people say just one or 2 storm shield but I haven't had as much luck with that as I have with the storm shield for everyone mentality

[skeletoro]

I would normally aim for roughly 1/2 - 2/3 shields, and a fist, maybe two fists, plus an iron priest to top it off.

[Jochteas]

Oh late Immurstrum has been running naked. 1 unit of 4 with 4 SS and 1 PF has 8 wounds, and 16 attacks. vs 6 with nothing, 12 wounds, and 30 attacks (both not including the +1 from charge) The Rending on the weapons really picks up for the slack with the lack of PF damage, and the extra wounds mitigate the loss of SS, it is also cheaper. With 6 Guys, equipping them all with SS and with a PF is just 5 shy of having a full group of Fen wolves out front. A full group that would eat over watch, provide cover, and do more damage, and with Harald be really effective. That said its a funny thing, it requires support and larger number for the 'naked' method to be more effective. If your not looking to do Harald and don'[t want Fen wolves, then yeah, you're going to want to SS it up because they aren't being supported as well. If You don't run an IP with them, then yeah you're going to want to include a PF because its not being supported. Essentially if you support them you can cut the fat and let them be more with less. Otherwise load em up and let them go on there own.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, looks like I am not needed here :D

 

Anyway, I like the naked method because it is sk cost effective. The only AP2 that can be spammed these days is grav, but if a bunch of Cents open up on you, Stormshields will not save you. But what is a LC going to do? Knock off a wound? Better yet, kill a Cyber Wolf? Not impressed.

With Harald they wound so well, I really do not see a point in sacrificing their prettt good I4 for a few AP2 hits.

For S10 you have Iron Priests anyway.

As for the increased number of models, of cause you will have more. You have more points to spend. Target saturation is important. If I have only one mega unit, it will be shot to hell. With bullet sponges you will live much longer.

[Baulder]

On mine (5) I have 3 shields and 2 mauls (1SS/PM is on the leader). If you've got furious charge those mauls get bumped up to str8 on the charge, str7 thereafter and you're hitting at initiative. As Immer says, the IP should be able to take care of the S10 AP1 attacks you need and then rending should deal with the rest.

[marvmoogy]

Decisions, decisions....

 

1 'naked'

1 with a storm shield

1 with a storm shield and wolf claw

 

I can use these as a base and build the other 2 up as needed after a few games :)

[Hear da Lamentation]

I'll stick my opinion in as well then ...

 

2 storm shields

Powerfist

 

Not too expensive (55points of extras) and you have a nice all round unit.

 

If you have an iron priest you can forego the fist if you need. But I looooove the look in the opponents face when you've just given them a kicking with the TWC ... and they know they've got another 5 ap2 str10 hits coming their way.

 

Points wise ... unless you need the IP ... he is 105 points. A TWC with power fist is 65 giving almost same stat line. Big saving. With SS 80 points, still a decent saving and a 3++ now.

[Araenion]

I run 5 normal + an IP also. My prefered loudout is 1 SS, 1 PF and SS on the leader. That's all. I'll want a leader in challenges for the sweet PE that grants the squad and a T5 3++ 2W model can take a lot of punishment before going down. 1 SS on the naked TWC model allows me a pretty good chance at saving a S10 AP2 shot in case all the wolves have been taken care of by earlier shooting (for instance, a smart Eldar player who wants to focus down TWC will shoot Serpents/Warp spiders, etc first, to try and force so many wounds on my Lord that I'm not comfortable taking, then shoot the Wraithknight into them) without having to risk my Wolf Lord to do it. I also like having a PF in my squad. S10 is so rare and 5 WS5 S10 AP2 attacks are insanely good for the price. This loudout is 255 points and it works pretty well.

[nightwing1511]

I remain skeptical of power fists and thunder hammers. Feels like every time I run them, they get obliterated before the I1 step.

 

Why not a Wolf Claw and Storm Shield trio? (Or sextet, if youve got points to waste?)

[Rift Blade]

My 2 cents--I run mine on packs of 4 with 3 storm shields & a power sword/wolf claw/Thunder Hammer depending on pts left over for the rest of the army.

[skeletoro]

why won't storm shields save you vs a bunch of cents?

 

 

 

why are you only worried about ap2? Ap3 gets past power armour too.

[skeletoro]

I agree that most of the options aren't worth taking over an extra body - I don't really think wolf claws, power swords etc are quite worth it. They ARE good. But more bodies is even better.

 

but for me, storm shields and power fists are an exception, in moderation. In moderation.

[skeletoro]

the shields are mainly useful vs ap3, because ap2 weapons are rarer as immersturm pointed out. A s10 ap2 weapon is dangerous but less common than higher rate of fire ap3 (eg avenger bolt cannon, that Am flamer tank, etc)

though plasma is not uncommon at all in my gaming circle.

And a healthy number of shields allows a unit of twc to go toe to toe with knights - ablative wounds are even better still but the shields add extra insurance, especially vs that stomp and the D explosion when the knight is destroyed.

lascannons are not aooo much of an issue because it is just one shot and just removes a single wound.

the fists are indispensible because of the utility they add. They ID most characters, and a fist attack is roughly 3x as likely to overcome armour vs PA/TDA (asssuming 4++ on the tda, writing off rending and higher chance to wound... But even given harald and furious charge, and 2+/3++, it is almost twice as good). They are quite a bit better vs vehicles and MCs - yes, the rending helps a lot but s10 ap2 is several times better against very high toughness, walkers, raiders etc. For me, the fist isn't quite so much about higher damage output across the board, and more about shoring up some areas where thubderwolves are OK but not great. Its about versatility.

that said, iron priests are da shizzle. It is hard to justify taking more than one fist in addition to the priest. Two is pushing it. One gives the option of splitting off the iron priest and taking out two fairly tough vehicles. It also significantly boosts chances of cracking tough cookies, such as knights or land raiders.

funnily enough I plan on giving ALL my TWC storm shields and packing lots of special weapons (variety just to keep myself sane while I model them) in an upcoming apoc game but apoc is a bit different. D weapons abound and I would rather paint 15 TWC with special weapons (magnetized ) than 30 without... I would never use all 30 models together in a regular game but can imagine using 15 TWC in a 2500 point game, with fewer upgrades of course

[Sohail187]

I personally find thunder hammers and power fists a waste of time. One thing great about TWC is that they hit hard and fast Hammer of wraths followed by many rending attacks. Why would you want to attack at I1-2. Leave that for 1 person either your wolf lord or Iron priest. 

Stormshields always at least 2 is a good number, Power mauls are a fooooooking strong item and very very very over looked. So lets go over what they do +2 Str attack at initiative and they have concussive (if you take a wound dropped to initiative 1), probably thinking that this wont be that handy think again. TWC are a great unit for killing big toys, however some times big toys can hit back. Take a wraithknight for example 1 wound from one of these bad boys you be dead son!. However imagine this, A unit of TWC with the wulfen stone whom now have furious charge, so that is +3 str rending. Yes first round of combat any decent MC will be hitting first unless its nids or tau and a few other things, but survive the first wave of attacks and there is a high chance that you will drop a few wounds from this model. Now in the following assault phase who is going to be hitting first? You! and a great chance to kill this model now and to be released from combat to charge something else.

 

Having a TH power P or axe or ect..ect.. is great but they are to costly and they ensure what ever you charge dies the same turn. What i found is that you kind of want the slow victory, kill them in the following assault phase so u are not being shot at. However you run the risk of being charged by more units (WHICH IS GREAT CAUSE THATS WHAT YOU WANT!!).

I got a prime example of the above. Played in a tournament on sunday. 3 WK and 5 serphants, there was a lonely knight left which was tied in combat for 2-3 turns by a solo twc with ss and pm. Dropped him to I1 every turn and was attacking first (yes i was lucky to pass my 3++ but hitting first allowed me to do as many wounds as i could before i died). 

 

If you know how a unit of TWC really deserves to be Magnetized so they have everything available when need be.

[Wispy]

 

but for me, storm shields and power fists are an exception, in moderation. In moderation.

 

If you're not giving every model in the squad a storm shield you're doing it wrong. Even at the expense of a special weapon. I'm dead serious. 

 

They typically going to have every gun on the field pointed at them, might as well give them every advantage.  

[skeletoro]

It's only an advantage vs AP3 or better. Adjusting for points cost, storm shields make TWC less durable vs AP4+.

[depolarization]

I actually really like the discussion on the blog:

 

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/2014/10/thunderwolves-tactics.html

 

I think it covers many of the points brought up here.  I don't think you're going to be able to get an optimal answer, as it always depends on the match-up and the rest of your army.

 

But definitely magnetize if you can.  It's a great way to play around with the immense amount of options TWC have access to.

 

Personally, I like equipping storm shields to everyone.  I use TWC to crack a heavy support/knight/monstrous creature unit.  You're going to take losses.  I find that invuln saves helps to mitigate the attrition of the assault phase and can save against superheavy explosions etc...

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

A single fist in a unit of cavalry makes them more effective at doing things they are otherwise weak at, such as killing a land raider. If you're taking a shield then you're not befitting from +1A anyway.

 

I do love a +2S weapon paired with furious charge though.