6th ed questions (old player catching up)

[CommandPoint]

Hey,
I'm still new to 40k after a very long break and I am playing 6th edition and have run into some questions.

If I put a Tech Marine in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Stubborn?

If I put a Librarian in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Preferred Enemy?

And is there a difference in between being immune to Fear (from And They Shall Know No Fear) and being Fearless?

Can I just buy basic Landspeeders for 50pts each using their "Ravenwing Support Squadron" army list entry?

I never really looked at the Ravenwing Attack Squadron before (I got too distracted by Ravenwing Command Squads, and Ravenwing Black Knights) and I've just noticed the part at the bottom where it says "If the squadron includes 6 Ravenwing Bikers (*), it may include a single Landspeeder chosen from the Ravenwing Support Squadron entry below." - is this Landspeeder free, or do I pay the 50 pts?

If I upgrade my Librarian to Level 2 (+35 points) does this Librarians statline change in any way? (I don't see anything about it, but in lots of reviews I read I am sure they said he gained +1 to a few of his stats)

Can a model on a bike shoot the bikes weapon, and his own gun ~ or is it either the bikes weapon or his own weapon?

Can a model (Independent Character) dismount from his bike? (if so, how does it work - what happens?)

Where are the rules for Precision Shots?

If I am playing Dark Angels in a game of 2000pts, can I use a second detachment as DA's too? (I've only just noticed that it is x2 HQ's max for one detachment... o.O)

[aura_enchanted]

Hey,

I'm still new to 40k after a very long break and I am playing 6th edition and have run into some questions.

 

If I put a Tech Marine in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Stubborn?

 

He grants them stubborn but not fearless

 

If I put a Librarian in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Preferred Enemy?

 

He doesn't grant them preferred enemy

 

And is there a difference in between being immune to Fear (from And They Shall Know No Fear) and being Fearless?

 

Yes these two are mutually exclusive, you can be both but one does not equate to being the other.

 

Can I just buy basic Landspeeders for 50pts each using their "Ravenwing Support Squadron" army list entry?

 

Yes

 

I never really looked at the Ravenwing Attack Squadron before (I got too distracted by Ravenwing Command Squads, and Ravenwing Black Knights) and I've just noticed the part at the bottom where it says "If the squadron includes 6 Ravenwing Bikers (*), it may include a single Landspeeder chosen from the Ravenwing Support Squadron entry below." - is this Landspeeder free, or do I pay the 50 pts?

 

You then can buy a land speeder as you would normally and include it as part of the unit normally, this does make them a troops choice if you bring sammael/azreal which can be useful when you move to 7th ed.

 

If I upgrade my Librarian to Level 2 (+35 points) does this Librarians statline change in any way? (I don't see anything about it, but in lots of reviews I read I am sure they said he gained +1 to a few of his stats)

 

No he simply generates two powers and has two dice to cast them on

 

Can a model on a bike shoot the bikes weapon, and his own gun ~ or is it either the bikes weapon or his own weapon?

 

It's a case of one or the other

 

Can a model (Independent Character) dismount from his bike? (if so, how does it work - what happens?)

 

He cannot

 

Where are the rules for Precision Shots?

 

Precision shots are in the 6th edition rulebook. They are also in the back page of any of the digital dataslates

 

If I am playing Dark Angels in a game of 2000pts, can I use a second detachment as DA's too? (I've only just noticed that it is x2 HQ's max for one detachment... o.O)

 

No you cannot, you may have only 1 detachment per codex (so no allying da with da you would need to pick someone else)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Given the above  replies are mixed with the questions making it hard to read:

 

1: Techmarine only has Grim Resolve so he only grants stubborn, not fearless.

2: He gives them fearless because he's an IC with fearless, but DA preferred enemy only applies to Inner Circle members.

3: Yes, there is a difference. Fearless means you pass all Morale tests automatically. ATSKNF only means you have special conditions that apply to the models.

4: Yes, you can buy just the normal 50pt version of the speeder.

5: You have to pay for the speeder. The Entry just allows you to have a speeder without spending a FA slot.

6: No, the upgrade is just for extra level in psychic mastery. No other stats get buffed.

7: It's one or the other. A model can only shoot one weapon in a given shooting phase regardless of how many weapons it has, unless he has a special rule that allows it.

7: No, the bike is part of the model.

8: Somewhere in the rulebook you will find precision shots, most likely in the section that describes special power like stubborn, fearless, etc.

9: In 6th Edition only one detachment. In 7th edition you can have two (or more)DA detachments, but each has to have 1 HQ, 2 Troops minimum.

[CommandPoint]

Hey guys, thanks so much for the replies :)
I've spent the last week looking through the books and now have today to finalise my army list for a game tomorrow so getting all these answers really helps with the rest of my days :)

"The Entry just allows you to have a speeder without spending a FA slot" ~ I was stuck on this for a while wondering why the option to add the Landspeeder was there, I even doubted I could jut take a LS even though it has an entry of it's own with a points cost - I totally didn't think about the FOC and limits and how this provides +1 without using a slot.

That's one of the reasons I asked about DA allying with DA - Just before bed I realised you can only have x2 HQ units total.
That struck me as odd. I have spent the last year looking at GW's models that have been released in my 10-15 year absence, and also checking out everyones blogs etc of their figures and I've seen so many nice models I want to use. Especially when you think about how you could have for example: A Librarian and Chaplain on foot, with Jumppack or on a Bike - that's 6 different looking cool models to create, and you can only ever take 2..... (and that's not including Commanders and special named characters). It seems really limited.

Of course, you don't need them all, and having them gives you options ~ but back in the day when all this was fields and I was playing 1st ed - 3rd ed, we played big games (5k+) and the only restrictions were up to 25% on chars, 25% on troops min and up to 50% on allies.
This did leave armies open to power gaming / abuse, but also gave you a lot of freedom to have multiple pick units to pick from that could do what you wanted.
I also really miss seeing Medics and Tech Marines running around all over the place, providing much needed support in their roles and being about to get stuck in with the shooting too.

I spent the last couple of days getting massively exciting when I read that Scouts confer their ability to anyone in their unit, and started thinking about putting Tech Marines and Librarians in with them - them just before I went to bed I remembered that "Scout" isn't like it used to be, it's a deployment readjustment (with Outflank), and it is actually "Infiltrate" that let's them deploy outside the deployment zone. Last thing I read before bed was "An IC without Infiltration does not gain Infiltration when he joins a unit of Infiltrators" :( Massive SadFace - but I guess that explains why no one fields Libs and Techs etc with the Infiltrators... :D

[Ania Redfang]

 

 

That's one of the reasons I asked about DA allying with DA - Just before bed I realised you can only have x2 HQ units total.

That struck me as odd. I have spent the last year looking at GW's models that have been released in my 10-15 year absence, and also checking out everyones blogs etc of their figures and I've seen so many nice models I want to use. Especially when you think about how you could have for example: A Librarian and Chaplain on foot, with Jumppack or on a Bike - that's 6 different looking cool models to create, and you can only ever take 2..... (and that's not including Commanders and special named characters). It seems really limited.

 

Of course, you don't need them all, and having them gives you options ~ but back in the day when all this was fields and I was playing 1st ed - 3rd ed, we played big games (5k+) and the only restrictions were up to 25% on chars, 25% on troops min and up to 50% on allies.

This did leave armies open to power gaming / abuse, but also gave you a lot of freedom to have multiple pick units to pick from that could do what you wanted.

I also really miss seeing Medics and Tech Marines running around all over the place, providing much needed support in their roles and being about to get stuck in with the shooting too.

 

 

 

In 7th edition you can take as many detachments as you like, so if you make the switch you can do something more like what you want. 

[CommandPoint]

I had read a little about that in 7th (Unbound?) and at first I was a little annoyed as I'd spent so long trying to learn about FOC and selecting my models based on armies using FOC etc ~ but then I realised that Unbound actually makes it a lot more like how it was in the 1st-3rd edition that I played, plus as you need to clarify if the game you are going to be playing is Unbound or FOC then it's kinda always been like that anyway (with opponents permission) - I guess GW are just making it more "official / recognised / viable".

How come the Tech Marine and Librarian do not pass on Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy to their unit?
From looking through the book it either says for each of these in the Universal Special Rules that "If at least one model has X the the whole unit gains X" - or "If this model has X it passes X on to its unit".

Is it because "Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy" are actually derived from "Grim Resolve" and "Inner Circle"? If so has there been any errata on this to clarify it?

Much thanks for the info so far Brothers
I now have 12 hours to generate tomorrows army and all my fantastic ideas are out the window. Back to Ravenwing and Tanks, Speeders and Dreads (but I can only have x2 Tech Marines max! - Ever! Evereverever! ~ without moving onto my 500pt Iron Hands allies, which I have only bought a Bionics sprue for so far, no actual models made / bought)....

[CommandPoint]

Does anyone have any Ravenwing suggestions?
I'm thinking one will have a Lib, one will have a Tech (both with Pwer Field Generators) and if possible I would give the units Feel No Pain (Banner / Medic) ~ But there are so many different ways to do it and I think a bit of my inside head just fell onto the page....

I'm thinking of trying two large units of DA Bikes (not sure which ones to pick) which will protect two large units of Sniper Scouts, with some Whirlwinds and Dreads for Support totaling 1500 - with 500pts of Belial and a unit of Termies to add on if it's a 2000pt game.

[aura_enchanted]

Does anyone have any Ravenwing suggestions?

I'm thinking one will have a Lib, one will have a Tech (both with Pwer Field Generators) and if possible I would give the units Feel No Pain (Banner / Medic) ~ But there are so many different ways to do it and I think a bit of my inside head just fell onto the page....

 

I'm thinking of trying two large units of DA Bikes (not sure which ones to pick) which will protect two large units of Sniper Scouts, with some Whirlwinds and Dreads for Support totaling 1500 - with 500pts of Belial and a unit of Termies to add on if it's a 2000pt game.

Ravenwing units should basically be built up like this, take your two ravenwing attack squadrons making sure to max out their squad sizes to 6

 

Then if you want scouts ensure one squad has a heavy bolter this gives you a nice even number total

 

Putting a librarian or chaplain on a bike with them is a good idea. I prefer the interrogator, but libby isn't bad. If you do go with a chaplain (or go full on ham and buy sammael) a veteran sgt on the bike team he's attached too is a good idea as well.

 

If your going to bring just one squad of deathwing with belial assuming money was no object then I'd buy deathwing knights. Their walking cover and will laugh as the foolish foes try to shoot them. And they will pair well with belials tanky nature. A terminator company master also isn't a bad idea as then u can buy toys like the mace of redemption, but then he starts to become a big points sink.

 

Whirl winds are nice and all, Heck I sport the old metal one; with the guy in the hatch at the back that like weighs 3lbs but I don't rely on them as my only source of support fire, if u take nothing else a lasback would be okay

 

The techmarine is out of place in a deathwing army mainly because his calling is as you described it yourself "running around supporting as he goes". So I like to play him in three roles:

 

1) pair him with a pfg, a servo harness and a deathwing land raider. 4++ land raider with re-roll penetrations and heals is good eats. You can also pull off a riskier play with a bike and a superheavy like a hellhammer or a knight.

 

2) veterans via the errata can sport 10 combi weapons in a max sized squad, give him his harness, stuff him in a pod with 9 veterans and dispense the mother of all ice bucket challenges.. Except we're using plasma or melta instead of ice

 

3) buy him a combat shield, and pair him with terminators, he isn't as bulky even with his harness so he takes up fewer slots in a transport, has two power fists, and a flamer and a plasma pistol. What's to like here?

 

4) devestators can be paired with a basic tech with an auspex to reduce cover saves of enemies and provide them with an improved cover save in a designated terrain piece, this is a cheap way to make them very useful, this also works with sniper scouts.

 

Hope my advice helps, if you provide a list of what's on hand in your boxes of marines maybe we can help u on a list?

 

Also if you own scout sgt namaan I'll pay handsomely for him

[CommandPoint]

Thanks for the help. I've just remembered I have a Landraider I've not used yet. Terminators are only a 5 man standard squad, I've not built my Knights yet.
I've also got about 10 Rhino / Razorbacks and normally take at least two, but might be leaving them out to use more bikes this time. I got 4 Landspeeders too, two of which are Typhoons.

Two painted Dreads, 4 unpainted.
Devestators are unbuilt too, but they'll be a project that'll take time (I seen some awesome reposed legs I want to do).

I've got a mix of old stuff I'm waiting to get back from the family loft, new stuff I've bought and yet to assemble now I'm older and have 10-15 years of internet to catch up on and help with which is the long term project, and stuff I've got off Ebay over the last couple of years to actually play with and help me decide how I want to build my own models.

[aura_enchanted]

Thanks for the help. I've just remembered I have a Landraider I've not used yet. Terminators are only a 5 man standard squad, I've not built my Knights yet.

I've also got about 10 Rhino / Razorbacks and normally take at least two, but might be leaving them out to use more bikes this time. I got 4 Landspeeders too, two of which are Typhoons.

 

Two painted Dreads, 4 unpainted.

Devestators are unbuilt too, but they'll be a project that'll take time (I seen some awesome reposed legs I want to do).

 

I've got a mix of old stuff I'm waiting to get back from the family loft, new stuff I've bought and yet to assemble now I'm older and have 10-15 years of internet to catch up on and help with which is the long term project, and stuff I've got off Ebay over the last couple of years to actually play with and help me decide how I want to build my own models.

so quite the fighting force, gotcha

 

I have a very small army personally speaking, I could maybe field the whole lot and hit 2500pts not counting extra hq's and my extra standard command squads bits

[Master Avoghai]

Of course, you don't need them all, and having them gives you options ~ but back in the day when all this was fields and I was playing 1st ed - 3rd ed, we played big games (5k+) and the only restrictions were up to 25% on chars, 25% on troops min and up to 50% on allies.

Sure but the game has evolved from half-skirmish games in v2 to big opposition of infantry now.

 

GW has officially recognized they do not want anymore armies of 15 models with 3-4 uber characters. They now want infantry squads supported by big robots and just a force leader.

 

That's why they've limited a lot the wargear and special rules available to HQ and gave bonuses to core units.

 

However the meta tends to evolve from this spirit to a spirit like : "take the minimal troops choices to get über infantry units" but it's safe to say that the time of characters alone is gone. (And personally I'm glad with that)

[SnakeChisler]

Does anyone have any Ravenwing suggestions?

I'm thinking one will have a Lib, one will have a Tech (both with Pwer Field Generators) and if possible I would give the units Feel No Pain (Banner / Medic) ~ But there are so many different ways to do it and I think a bit of my inside head just fell onto the page....

 

I'm thinking of trying two large units of DA Bikes (not sure which ones to pick) which will protect two large units of Sniper Scouts, with some Whirlwinds and Dreads for Support totaling 1500 - with 500pts of Belial and a unit of Termies to add on if it's a 2000pt game.

 

Ravenwing Command with all the toys Libby with PFG is a pretty safe setup

 

2 scout snipers is a good troop support unit a couple of Typhoons in the mix and stick las on your Dreads for some long range fire support, high mobility backed up with long range helps a lot.

 

Dreads have made a bit of a reappearance in my lists with 7th coz they are just cool but also the pen chart makes them worth taking more these days and they help control the backfield as the bikes have to go hell for leather forward you need to maximize their impact, if you get into attrition it wont end well for the bikes and keeping a squad back to babysit objectives isn't thier thing

[CommandPoint]

I ended up fighting Sisters of Battle and we played 7th, which I wasn't expecting having spent a year reading 6th and only having two games so far - but it all seemed pretty much the same except Psychics being different and from what I understand, vehicles are a little better (not so prone to blowing up?) ~ which I liked. It has taken some of the sting away from investing so much in a game that "became outdated" when I'd only played twice, but that's mostly my fault for modelling more than gaming for a year or so.

I decided to get some experience with Hit And Run, Reserves, Deepstrike and Outflank (having not used them before) and some more experience is definitely needed there to get my timing right. I also got confused with Teleport Beacons, Signal Locators, and didn't realise that Deep Strike doesn't utilise the Teleport Beacons.

We also didn't have a rulebook handy for picking missions so we just went with Kill Points, which ended up being 8 - 11 in my opponents favour. He got 1st blood, I killed his Warlord, but he beat me by taking out a few extra units of mine. He had 4 tanks loaded with troops that did not deploy until late in the game, maybe if I had more heavies, or if he'd deployed earlier I might of taken more out (mental note - encourage my opponent to disembark in future - 60pts of Scouts charging his tank could force/encourage him to deploy 100-150pts of troops for me to shoot at?)

The Plasma Talons did quite well, but I've learned not to shoot them at tanks when you'd need a 6 to penetrate, and I also learned that when shooting twice (Rapid Fire?) that they "Get Hot" on a 1 or a 2. I lost two Ravenwing to fairly unnecessary shooting because of this.

I didn't get much experience with Hit And Run, and found that getting challenged reduced the effectiveness of the unit. I definitely need more Close Combat experience.

I also feel this list is a bit short of heavy weapons, especially with the Landspeeders (both Multi-Melta & Typhoons) missing the 1st turn. Although this was a tactical decision as I allowed my opponent to set up first so I could "counter set up" as I knew about half my army would also be off the board on the first turn so less likely to get hammered before they got to act. What was on the board at the start was well placed and I suffered very little hits. I also don't know if it was 7th edition rules making my opponents tanks harder to destroy that resulting in it feeling like I was suffering a lack of heavies.

Something else I learned was to focus more on a unit to remove it, instead of spreading my damage around. Halfway through the game I realised I had damaged most things, but not removed anything so it was "still there, shooting etc".

I also relied on my opponent not having flyers, and didn't take my quad gun (Aegis, which is normally protected by a Tech Marine with PFG), and have not yet built my Missile Turrets or Devastators either But he had two flyers which I decided it would be best to ignore (luckily they didn't arrive until turn 3.) I am really not very interested in flyers. I will contend myself to taking Devastators with Flakk Missiles supported maybe by a Libby with PFG, or a TM with PFG and try my hardest to let the Devs deal with flyers and just "play on"....

Here's my list that I ended up taking:

(I'm sorry I don't know how to "Hide / Spoiler" the list -

The Tech on a bike was in the RW Command squad, and the Lib on a bike was with the RW Black Knights.

I also dropped a lot of little extras (Combi's, Melta Bombs, Infra Visors, Auspex's etc) after I realised I had forgotten to include Belial, and a few more things just before the game when I realised I had also forgotten the Libs PFG.

++++ army list removed for containing individual points costs. Please read B&C rules. CL +++

^^ My apologies CL. Resubmitting list below with points removed.

+ 2000pt Dark Angels 6th Ed (FAQ April 2013) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +

+ (No Category) + 

    * Ravenwing Command Squad 
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Hit & Run, Scouts, Skilled Rider)
        5x Black Knight, Bolt Pistol, Corvus Hammer, Frag and Krak Grenades, Grim Resolve (*, Stubborn),
 Plasma Talon, Power Armour, Ravenwing Apothecary (Feel No Pain), Ravenwing Champion, Ravenwing Company Banner, 
Ravenwing Grenade Launcher, Teleport Homer


    * Techmarine
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences, Independant Character)
        Bolter, Grim Resolve (*, Stubborn), Infantry, Power Field Generator (30pts), Servo Arm, Servo Harness (25pts)
        * Servitors
            * Servitors
                (Mindlock)
                Servo Arm
            * Servitors
                (Mindlock)
                Servo Arm

    * Techmarine  
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences, Independant Character)
        Bike (Skilled Rider), Bolt Pistol, Grim Resolve (*, Stubborn), Power Field Generator, Servo Arm

+ HQ + 

    * Belial  
        (Deathwing Assault, Grand Master of the Deathwing, Independant Character, Inner Circle, Marked for Retribution, 
Tactical Precision, Vengeful Strike, Warlord Trait: The Hunt)
        Iron Halo, Storm Bolter and Sword of Silence, Teleport Homer, Terminator Armour

    * Librarian 
        (Independant Character)
        Inner Circle (Fearless, Preferred Enemy (Chaos Space Marines))
        * Power Armour 
            Bolt Pistol, Force Sword, Power Field Generator, Space Marine Bike (Skilled Rider)
        * Psyker
            (*)
            Level 1 (Mastery Level 1)

+ Elites +

    * Dreadnought 
        Missile Launcher, No Transport, Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Twin Linked Lascannon

+ Troops +

    * Deathwing Terminator Squad (Troops) 
        (Deathwing Assault, Split Fire, Vengeful Strike)
        Assault Cannon, 4x Deathwing Terminators, Inner Circle (Fearless, Preferred Enemy (Chaos Space Marines))
        * Deathwing Terminator Sgt 
            Storm Bolter and Power Sword

    * Scout Squad
        (Scouts)
        4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle
        * Sergeant 
            Bolt Pistol, Sniper Rifle

    * Scout Squad 
        (Scouts)
        4x Scouts, 4x Sniper Rifle
        * Sergeant 
            Bolt Pistol, Sniper Rifle

    * Tactical Squad 
        (And They Shall Know No Fear)
        Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Frag and Krak Grenades, Grim Resolve (*, Stubborn), Power Armour, 4x Tactical Marine
        * Razorback
            Dozer Blade (5pts), Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasmagun, Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter 
        * Sergeant
            Bolt Pistol, Storm Bolter 

+ Fast Attack + 

    * Ravenwing Black Knights
        (And They Shall Know No Fear, Hit & Run, Scouts, Skilled Rider)
        4x Black Knight (168pts), Bolt Pistol, Corvus Hammer, Frag and Krak Grenades, Grim Resolve (*, Stubborn), 
Plasma Talon, Power Armour, Ravenwing Grenade Launcher (Rad Charge, Stasis Anomaly), Teleport Homer
        * Huntmaster  
            Corvus Hammer

    * Ravenwing Support Squadron  
        * Land Speeder 
            (Deep Strike)
            Multi Melta, Typhoon Missile Launcher
        * Land Speeder 
            (Deep Strike)
            Multi Melta, Typhoon Missile Launcher


+ Heavy Support + 

    * Whirlwind  
        Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter, Storm Bolter, Whirlwind Missile Launcher

    * Whirlwind  
        Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter, Storm Bolter, Whirlwind Missile Launcher

    * Whirlwind 
        Smoke Launchers and Searchlight, Storm Bolter, Storm Bolter, Whirlwind Missile Launcher

I decided that if it was a 1500pt game then I would leave out:

Belial

Deathwing Terminator Squad

Whirlwind

[Bryan Blaire]

Well, one thing I noticed is that you were playing "Gets Hot" wrong for 7th Edition. The last time the 1, 2 for two Gets Hot shots was used was back in 4th Edition.

 

Gets Hot

When firing a weapon that Gets Hot, roll To Hit as normal. For each To Hit roll of 1, the firing model immediately suffers a Wound (armor or invulnerable saves can be taken) - this Wound cannot be allocated to any other model in the unit.

...

Gets Hot and Re-rolls

If a model has the ability to re-roll it's To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule), a Wound is only suffered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1...

So, you should have only been suffered on a To Hit roll of 1, regardless of whether you were Rapid Firing or not. Also, because the Plasma Talons have Twin-linked, per pg 60 of the DA codex, you could have re-rolled any initial ones and would only have gotten Wounds on each double 1.

 

Also, Terminators arriving by Deep Strike (teleportation) definitely use the Teleport Homer rules (if the homers were already on the table), it is what they are there for. The only things that wouldn't have been able to use it in your list were the Land Speeders.

[CommandPoint]

Well, one thing I noticed is that you were playing "Gets Hot" wrong for 7th Edition. The last time the 1, 2 for two Gets Hot shots was used was back in 4th Edition.

Thanks for pointing that out. My opponent was pretty good at reminding me of my Twin Linked re-rolls, but it's good to know Plasma Talons still only have the 1 in 6 chance of getting hot even when Rapid Firing, rather than the 1 in 3 chance they were in our game - which I thought was a bit harsh.

 

Also, Terminators arriving by Deep Strike (teleportation) definitely use the Teleport Homer rules (if they were already on the table), it is what they are there for. The only things that wouldn't have been able to use it in your list were the Land Speeders.

Yeah, I got confused with timing and decided to Outflank with the bikes that had Teleport Homers on which meant they weren't on the table at the start of the turn for their TH's to be used. This ended up not mattering as Deep Strike (Landspeeders) don't use TH's, and Belial has the Tactical Precision, so more of a theoretic timing error which flustered my during that part of the game (trying to imagine the correct sequence of when to bring things on, what is affected by them and when the affected things would come on etc)

[CommandPoint]

Something I struggled with, was the order things happen at the start of the game.

There are numerous possible things to check for, but I have not been able to find a condensed list.

 

Eg:

Set up terrain

Pick Mission

Warlord Trait

Assign Psychic Powers

Roll to see who is Primary

Aegis Defence Line

Deathwing Assault

Set up

Scout set up

Infiltrate set up

Scout move

Bolster Defence

Contest

 

Are there more things to consider, and is the order of these correct?

 

Also:

How come the Tech Marine and Librarian do not pass on Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy to their unit?

From looking through the book it either says for each of these in the Universal Special Rules that "If at least one model has X the the whole unit gains X" - or "If this model has X it passes X on to its unit".

 

Is it because "Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy" are actually derived from "Grim Resolve" and "Inner Circle"? If so has there been any errata on this to clarify it?

[Chaplain Lucifer]

The Techmarine and Librarian pass those three rules to their squads. But models with Inner Circle rules have special perks that don't go to the unit. So in resume, Inner Circle models don't pass inner circle to their unit but pass some of the special rules that are within Inner Circle.

[CommandPoint]

I am still a little unclear on this so I thought I would highlight (quote) it for clarity and resolution, especially as I am asking so many questions through out this thread etc.

Thanks for everyone's time and efforts so far

If I put a Tech Marine in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Stubborn?

If I put a Librarian in a squad of Scouts, does he give them: Fearless and Preferred Enemy?

He grants them stubborn but not fearless

He doesn't grant them preferred enemy

Given the above replies are mixed with the questions making it hard to read:

1: Techmarine only has Grim Resolve so he only grants stubborn, not fearless.

2: He gives them fearless because he's an IC with fearless, but DA preferred enemy only applies to Inner Circle members.

How come the Tech Marine and Librarian do not pass on Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy to their unit?

From looking through the book it either says for each of these in the Universal Special Rules that "If at least one model has X the the whole unit gains X" - or "If this model has X it passes X on to its unit".

Is it because "Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy" are actually derived from "Grim Resolve" and "Inner Circle"? If so has there been any errata on this to clarify it?

The Techmarine and Librarian pass those three rules to their squads. But models with Inner Circle rules have special perks that don't go to the unit. So in resume, Inner Circle models don't pass inner circle to their unit but pass some of the special rules that are within Inner Circle.

So they would provide Stubborn, Fearless and Preferred Enemy to their squads? o.O

(at least we are discussing this here and not mid-game )

[SnakeChisler]

If one model has preffered enemy or fearless the unit has it.

 

With fearless though if you end up in a challenge and you don't accept with say the champion and your opponent selects your librarian to sit out you loose the fearless your leadership goes to stubborn on the highest in the unit.

 

Kill points isn't really kind to Da we have a lot of small units, 7th has moved the goalposts though and objective and progressive missions are more the order of the day

[CommandPoint]

Kill points isn't really kind to Da we have a lot of small units, 7th has moved the goalposts though and objective and progressive missions are more the order of the day

I did think that a mission of some type would suit me better than Kill Points, but I also figured that on the plus side it means I get a straight "vanilla" game of 40k (just like most of my old games) so I can just focus on the rules of the game without getting confused by mission variations

[SnakeChisler]

If you have a regular opponent then try out maelstrom you'll learn together

 

Were hooked on it tbh

 

This year the local 40k comp will be progressive missions by that I mean they take the ideas of maelstrom but remove its randomness so you get points during the game as well as final objective points.

[CommandPoint]

Any help with this?

Something I struggled with, was the order things happen at the start of the game.

There are numerous possible things to check for, but I have not been able to find a condensed list.

Eg:

Set up terrain

Pick Mission

Warlord Trait

Assign Psychic Powers

Roll to see who is Primary

Aegis Defence Line

Deathwing Assault

Set up

Scout set up

Infiltrate set up

Scout move

Bolster Defence

Contest

Are there more things to consider, and is the order of these correct?

[aura_enchanted]

Any help with this?

Something I struggled with, was the order things happen at the start of the game.

There are numerous possible things to check for, but I have not been able to find a condensed list.

Eg:

Set up terrain

Pick Mission

Warlord Trait

Assign Psychic Powers

Roll to see who is Primary

Aegis Defence Line

Deathwing Assault

Set up

Scout set up

Infiltrate set up

Scout move

Bolster Defence

Contest

Are there more things to consider, and is the order of these correct?

yes

[CommandPoint]

yes

Thanks for the Bump.