Tyranids Basics (7th edition)

[GreyCrow]

Hi guys ! So I hadn't seen how old the posts were from the original Tyranids Basics thread (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/285740-tyranid-basics/ ), and after a suggestion to open up a thread with 7th edition in mind and all the changes that it brought.

 

In the different threads so far, the idea was to kill the synapse net first, then focus on the hordes. Are there other elements and suggestions ? How about the changes to monstruous creatures and FMCs ? Did they open up new Tactics possibilities ?

 

In addition, for a Marine army, what are the targets that must be absolutely neutralized in order to give ourselves an edge if they are wiped out early on ?

Intuitively, I would have gone for Tervigons, Carnifexes, Exocrines, Hive Tyrants if they're gliding on the board and you have the first turn, Warriors to destroy the synapse net.

Alternatively, perhaps it might be better to seriously cripple a Termagaunt or Hormagaunt Brood right off the bat so they are less of a threat ?

 

Also, what do you think about a very offensive strategy against the Tyranids ? As in throwing everything you've got at a priority target to cripple the enemy's army, with extreme prejudice, even if you expose yourself to a return assault ?

 

And finally, what's the biggest threats to Marine armies in general ?

[knife&fork]

 

And finally, what's the biggest threats to Marine armies in general ?

 

Nid lists tend to live and die by their flying synapse. Left unchecked the flying tyrants can also wreak havoc on most marine units. 

 

If you have a good way of taking down FMCs you're halfway there. That means cover ignoring shots of S5 or greater as you want to cancel any buffed jink saves. Just using your own flyers was fine in 6th. No longer the case with improved jink and less punishing grounding test. 

 

Tervigons are another problem creature. They produce scoring units, buff and provide synapse. Excellent choice to pick off ASAP. The gaunts that they spawn aren't much of a threat by themselves but they can bog you down and swarm objectives.

 

 

The target priority is pretty easy to break down:

 

1. Flying Hive tyrants and tervigons

 

2. Any other synapse creature

 

3. Anything that's good at killing you or keeping you from scoring an objective

 

As a marine player you will usually have a range advantage. Rushing in before you've had a chance to weaken him is not a good idea. 

[GreyCrow]

I see, that makes a lot of sense ! I'm going to follow your advice and keep that in mind :)

If I got it right, the key to destroying the synapse web is not too much forcing them to roll for instinctive behavior, but rather remove the Fearless buff they will have ?

 

I'm going to have a 1000 points tournament game on Wednesday against the 'Nids so any Tactical help is appreciated ! :) The idea I had would be to use my Raven Guard Chapter tactics to position myself exactly at 24" inches of either a Tervigon or a Flying Hive Tyrant that is gliding, in an angle that would negate their cover saves and just unload hell on either. I have enough S7+ AP1-2 firepower with a 24" range to kill a Tervigon a turn (that's including misses, unless I fail with everything haha), so that's probably going to be my priority target, to go for the synaptic backlash, or the Hive Tyrant if he's really accessible (otherwise I'll have to kite him for the game take pot shots at him).

 

The 24" range feels kind of a safety net for me, as he won't be able to get a charge in while I'll be at good heavy weapon efficiency, while most of my units can move 12" a turn (Attack Bikes, Transport mounted Tacticals, Landspeeders, Assault Marines).

 

____

 

To reflect on the synaptic backlash, how would you feel about trying to kill the rest of his synapse web to make sure he'll try to keep the Tervigons and the Termagaunts together (within 12") ? Then, focusing the fire on the Tervigon in order to benefit from an extra 3d6 S3 hits on the Termagaunts around ? Of course, that would still give him a turn of spawning some more.

[knife&fork]

 

If I got it right, the key to destroying the synapse web is not too much forcing them to roll for instinctive behavior, but rather remove the Fearless buff they will have ?

 

____

 

To reflect on the synaptic backlash, how would you feel about trying to kill the rest of his synapse web to make sure he'll try to keep the Tervigons and the Termagaunts together (within 12") ? Then, focusing the fire on the Tervigon in order to benefit from an extra 3d6 S3 hits on the Termagaunts around ? Of course, that would still give him a turn of spawning some more.

 

It's all of that plus the fact that they also provide psychic support and a lot of his damage output. Synapse creatures fill so many roles in a nid list, that's what makes them good targets. 

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the gaunts once the synapse is gone. We can kill them quite easily with bolters, in close combat or even tank shock them if they are lurking on an objective.

The synaptic backlash is a good bonus but don't let it decide your target priority. Shoot important units that you have a good chance of bringing down, don't waste shots trying to pull neat tricks.

 

An exception to the above would be if you face a nid list that is built around spamming gaunts. Possible at 1k I guess.

[knife&fork]

OK, so this just happened:

 

http://i.imgur.com/bzUraAa.jpg

 

Now that nids got an improved spore mine back tactics will change a lot.

[GreyCrow]

Okay, that is new and creepy... That they can drop either MCs or infantry might mean we'll see a bit more Pyrovores and it does sound like it's got quite a neat firepower as well, so great to clear out infantry. Are these out yet ? Or is it a Forgeworld only model ?

 

Apparently, the Tyranids have also 2 new monstruous creatures : The Maleceptor which is some kind of melee Psyker and the Toxicrene which throws toxic gases. Apparently they won't be out where I live till next week, so won't have to worry about them (woohoo !)

[knife&fork]

I wouldn't worry as neither of them look very good. More fragile than a carnifex, the toxicrene can kill itself with with its shooting attack ( :D ) and the maleceptor will need too many warpcharge to get a decent amount of wounds in.

[GreyCrow]

That is fair enough then, I'll focus on the core synapse units of the Nids and shall destroy them with righteous fury, before moping up the rest of the critter.

[CrystalSeer]

As unpopular as I know this will be... ignore the synapse.

 

That's right, ignore it.

 

In most of the competitive Tyranid builds I've played against, they brought enough synapse that to destroy it would take 2-3 turns. That 2-3 turns is half of a game where you are ignoring target priority to go after artificial targets. Its tactical suicide, because there are things that are lot more important to kill.

 

Tyranids struggle against armor, the higher the better. If you field a landraider they will have only a couple units on the table capable of damaging it. You can use this to your advantage by destroying these choice units early in the game, letting you run the table relatively unmolested.

 

Failing that, more dakka is always a viable solution. TFC will do quite a bit for you.

[GreyCrow]

That is interesting, what are the units that are good at destroying vehicles ? Carnifexes are a gives it would seem, and a dalla filtrant as well for anything Av12 and less ?

[CrystalSeer]

That is interesting, what are the units that are good at destroying vehicles ? Carnifexes are a gives it would seem, and a dalla filtrant as well for anything Av12 and less ?

 

Monstrous creatures with crushing claws, carnifex, genestealers (for anything short of a land raider), and their pskers with the (warp blast?) power

[GreyCrow]

I see, so focusing fire on any unit that can cripple my long term efficiency on the battlefield rather than trying to take his synapse net down first and foremost, got it. If the target is both synapse and a nasty threat, then all the better !

 

Any idea on to counter Venomthropes cover saves ? I was thinking about throwing as many S8+ weapons at them until one fails their 2+ cover save and dies horribly.

[CrystalSeer]

I see, so focusing fire on any unit that can cripple my long term efficiency on the battlefield rather than trying to take his synapse net down first and foremost, got it. If the target is both synapse and a nasty threat, then all the better !

 

Any idea on to counter Venomthropes cover saves ? I was thinking about throwing as many S8+ weapons at them until one fails their 2+ cover save and dies horribly.

 

Pretty much this, or kill them in melee. I like to spend turns 1-2 killing anything that hurts my raiders, 3-4 blasting priority targets, 5-6 crusaders come out of raiders and clean up. 

[Brother Navaer Solaq]

Pretty good update on general tactics against Nids

 

Q. Is there a character/unit in the army codex that has/can be given interceptor rule?

[GreyCrow]

So, after my battle, things to watch out for :

 

- Dakka Flyrant : He is really nasty ! So many S6 shots will eat through Rhinos and any vehicle thanks to his mobility to hit the side armours. He isn't too much of a threat against large Tactical squads, so that's a good thing to know. Usually, he might kill 3 or 4 per volley, but he's wasting his shots. The best way to counter him if you don't have enough skyfire shots is to lure him to waste his shots on your Rhinos or Razorbacks, as well as deploy way back in order to have him come forward fast and separate himself from the rest of the swarm.

- Hive guards with their impaler cannon : I'm not sure about the name of the weapon, but it's a S8 24" assault 2 that doesn't require line of sight and ignores cover. It's the bane of Landspeeders. Most importantly, this is a very tough firebase, with S6 and 2 or 3 wounds each, so no Instant Death. Best way to deal with them is to negate their short range.

- Venomthrope : This really is the MVP of any Tyranid list in my opinion. Even just one of them really boosts the defensive capability of a Tyranid army. The best way to deal with them is to force the Tyranid army to get out of cover, so that they only get shrouded or to have mobile elements that are able to take shots from the side.

- Catalyst : Really nasty, Feel no Pain on a large squad of gaunts, especially combined with a Venomthrope. Dealing with the Psyker isn't really a problem except if it's a flyrant or a Tervigon. Overwhelming firepower seems to be needed in that scenario.

 

So far the most reasonable approach I found to deal with Tyranids is to deploy as far as possible and pick their elements one by one, hehe. Guess that some things never change :p

[Sheesh Mode]

How effective would two Mark of Khorne chosen armed with an Icon of Wrath, power weapons, melta and flamers, and led by Kharne and a Warpsmith be against Tyranids? 

[Axagoras]

the dooms coming back guys... My the emperor save us all

[shandwen]

The doom may return, but until we see rules im going to assume the 1.1 version (or 2.1, I dont know how many codexes it has been in) make it a worthless, overpriced, and situational bug.

[Axagoras]

The things that worry me are the new spore pods and the super spore mines, now before someone dismisses the mines for being weak, they also cost almost nothing. A squad of 3 is just 45 points and can easily make its points back especially with shrouded it takes a fair amount of fire power to stop them. And the key thing to remember is that the spore pod can either fire 15 s5 sp5 shots a turn, 5 large blast s4 ap5, or 5 small blast s6 ap4s. Now that's a lot of fire power to supplement the unit inside. At least they are only t5 with a 4+ save so krak grenades are useful vs a MC for once.

[knife&fork]

the dooms coming back guys... My the emperor save us all

 

It's just a regular witch-fire spewing zoantrope? Relatively fragile too. 

 

The barbed strangler pods can can force an ungodly amount of saves, but can nids demech effectively and bring them in at the right time to take advantage of that? 

 

 

EDIT: If I was playing guard I would be very concerned about the new 'nids, not so much with pure marine lists.

[GreyCrow]

What stresses me out is the cost they have. 75 points doesn't seem like much for such firepower !

 

I think one of the best uses of these pods will be throwing them with gaunts or just swarms of little creatures rather than Monstruous Creatures.

[Sheesh Mode]

Is it feasible for Tyranids to go along a purely deepstrike route? As in pods and Trygons following Lictor Pheremone trails? With Carnifexe's following the Trygons and Gaunts falling out of the pods?

[Axagoras]

no, cause they cant show up turn 1 (at least the pods dont)