Horus vs Abaddon: Post Vengeful Spirit / Talon of Horus

[Loesh]

 

 

Primarchs can kill Space Marines, in Armor, with a single punch. Abaddon's marks aren't going to do anything to protect Horus from simply knocking his head clean off, MK style.

 

Ehhh, I don't know. It depends largely on the Space Marine, I know humans can kick a Space Marines arse with absurd training, i'm certain the same is true for Space Marines and Primarchs. 

 

I agree Horus would win, but that hardly makes it an easy fight.

 

 

even with incredible training and experience, none of the greatest warriors of the astartes were able to kill a primarch.  even now only the greatest of the grey knights are able to even banish a daemon primarch.  that said, i wouldnt be so certain that space marines can truly kill a full primarch.

 

 

For the Talon of Horus:

 

 

Abaddon kills a favorless clone of Horus.

 

 

But I would suggest reading it, instead of opening up that tag if you haven't.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

 

 

 

Primarchs can kill Space Marines, in Armor, with a single punch. Abaddon's marks aren't going to do anything to protect Horus from simply knocking his head clean off, MK style.

 

Ehhh, I don't know. It depends largely on the Space Marine, I know humans can kick a Space Marines arse with absurd training, i'm certain the same is true for Space Marines and Primarchs. 

 

I agree Horus would win, but that hardly makes it an easy fight.

 

 

even with incredible training and experience, none of the greatest warriors of the astartes were able to kill a primarch.  even now only the greatest of the grey knights are able to even banish a daemon primarch.  that said, i wouldnt be so certain that space marines can truly kill a full primarch.

 

 

For the Talon of Horus:

 

 

Abaddon kills a favorless clone of Horus.

 

 

But I would suggest reading it, instead of opening up that tag if you haven't.

 

 

well yes i am aware of that occurrence, but it definitely seemed like the clone was premature (for lack of a better word) in comparison to Horus.  and we are talking about Abaddon vs the true Horus.  plus the clone was "favorless' and thus lacked the later gifts of chaos that Horus gained.

[Loesh]

 

 

 

well yes i am aware of that occurrence, but it definitely seemed like the clone was premature (for lack of a better word) in comparison to Horus.  and we are talking about Abaddon vs the true Horus.  plus the clone was "favorless' and thus lacked the later gifts of chaos that Horus gained.

 

 

Well yes the Clone had no favor, but that discounts the idea that a Primarch can't be slain by a Space Marine, unless you do believe it's premature ...which I don't, nothing in those passages indicated it wasn't just Horus at the end there, save perhaps that Horus was a bit younger.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

 

 

 

 

well yes i am aware of that occurrence, but it definitely seemed like the clone was premature (for lack of a better word) in comparison to Horus.  and we are talking about Abaddon vs the true Horus.  plus the clone was "favorless' and thus lacked the later gifts of chaos that Horus gained.

 

 

Well yes the Clone had no favor, but that discounts the idea that a Primarch can't be slain by a Space Marine, unless you do believe it's premature ...which I don't, nothing in those passages indicated it wasn't just Horus at the end there, save perhaps that Horus was a bit younger.

 

 

yes but a younger Horus would make a different despite a primarch's fast development. plus, if i remember correctly, the clone was created by fabius (or simply the EC), and given their history in experimentation, i think it is very possible that the clones of Horus were not quite exact clones, but were modified (even slightly) by the EC.  any such deviation from the make up of true Horus would make a difference of some kind in the confrontation.

[Strazhakov]

Abbadons's stats have always been wrong. He's much more than a WS7 S4 T5 Warlord. Too bad for balance but he should be closer to Primarch stats than any other. In every description he's mentioned as being huge, even for a Terminator. He's Horus's clone son and should be way more powerful than your average Chaos Lord.

 

But I'm pretty sure he'll be a LoW come the next codex. We can only hope he gets some well deserved buffs. I remeber Drach`nyen to be way more potent than it is in the rules right now.

[Loesh]

 

 

 

 

 

well yes i am aware of that occurrence, but it definitely seemed like the clone was premature (for lack of a better word) in comparison to Horus.  and we are talking about Abaddon vs the true Horus.  plus the clone was "favorless' and thus lacked the later gifts of chaos that Horus gained.

 

 

Well yes the Clone had no favor, but that discounts the idea that a Primarch can't be slain by a Space Marine, unless you do believe it's premature ...which I don't, nothing in those passages indicated it wasn't just Horus at the end there, save perhaps that Horus was a bit younger.

 

 

yes but a younger Horus would make a different despite a primarch's fast development. plus, if i remember correctly, the clone was created by fabius (or simply the EC), and given their history in experimentation, i think it is very possible that the clones of Horus were not quite exact clones, but were modified (even slightly) by the EC.  any such deviation from the make up of true Horus would make a difference of some kind in the confrontation.

 

 

Ignoring that I didn't see much augmentation on that clone, I think Fabius doesn't hype himself up for no reason. If such a thing were applied to a Primarch, it would probably make him better.

[Volt]

 

Primarchs can kill Space Marines, in Armor, with a single punch. Abaddon's marks aren't going to do anything to protect Horus from simply knocking his head clean off, MK style.

 

Ehhh, I don't know. It depends largely on the Space Marine, I know humans can kick a Space Marines arse with absurd training, i'm certain the same is true for Space Marines and Primarchs. 

 

I agree Horus would win, but that hardly makes it an easy fight.

 

No, it doesn't matter how good the Astartes is. Primarchs are faster, stronger, and tougher. It's like pitting a normal human against 616 Captain America. All it takes for a Primarch to kill an Astartes is a single punch, and he doesn't even need armor to do that.

[Kol Saresk]

When it comes to saying ""Horus could just punch Abaddon's head off", I want to ask a question. Remember Temba? The guy corrupted by Nurgle? Who could fight on even ground with Horus long enough to wound him? And that wasn't even a mark, just a small piece of power from one God.

 

Now imagine a full Mark. Now imagine four of them. Now imagine the will that combined the four individual Marks into one single Mark.

 

And there's Horus, the Eugan Temba the Gods used to fatally wound the Emperor so He would be where they wanted Him to be.

 

So who would really win? The man who would become Emperor? Or the Warmaster who would be the sacrificial bullet?

[Volt]

When it comes to saying ""Horus could just punch Abaddon's head off", I want to ask a question. Remember Temba? The guy corrupted by Nurgle? Who could fight on even ground with Horus long enough to wound him? And that wasn't even a mark, just a small piece of power from one God.

 

Now imagine a full Mark. Now imagine four of them. Now imagine the will that combined the four individual Marks into one single Mark.

 

And there's Horus, the Eugan Temba the Gods used to fatally wound the Emperor so He would be where they wanted Him to be.

 

So who would really win? The man who would become Emperor? Or the Warmaster who would be the sacrificial bullet?

 

Tembra wounded Horus thanks to the sword he wielded, which was the Anathame- looted from the Interex by Erebus. The blade that's so powerful it can permanently kill perpetuals.

 

However, for ordinary weapons, Primarch flesh is stronger then the very terminator armor that Abaddon wears. A single punch from the actual Primarch should fell him instantly.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

just to clarify the anathame is not the fulgurite...

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

 

 

 

 

 

 

well yes i am aware of that occurrence, but it definitely seemed like the clone was premature (for lack of a better word) in comparison to Horus.  and we are talking about Abaddon vs the true Horus.  plus the clone was "favorless' and thus lacked the later gifts of chaos that Horus gained.

 

 

Well yes the Clone had no favor, but that discounts the idea that a Primarch can't be slain by a Space Marine, unless you do believe it's premature ...which I don't, nothing in those passages indicated it wasn't just Horus at the end there, save perhaps that Horus was a bit younger.

 

 

yes but a younger Horus would make a different despite a primarch's fast development. plus, if i remember correctly, the clone was created by fabius (or simply the EC), and given their history in experimentation, i think it is very possible that the clones of Horus were not quite exact clones, but were modified (even slightly) by the EC.  any such deviation from the make up of true Horus would make a difference of some kind in the confrontation.

 

 

Ignoring that I didn't see much augmentation on that clone, I think Fabius doesn't hype himself up for no reason. If such a thing were applied to a Primarch, it would probably make him better.

 

 

not necessarily, just like any mutation or augmentation, there are advantages and disadvantages and thats simply assuming that such an modification was a "success"

 

also, if anything is true about 40k literature, its that often some of the most important information is that which is not written.

[Loesh]

 

 

Primarchs can kill Space Marines, in Armor, with a single punch. Abaddon's marks aren't going to do anything to protect Horus from simply knocking his head clean off, MK style.

 

Ehhh, I don't know. It depends largely on the Space Marine, I know humans can kick a Space Marines arse with absurd training, i'm certain the same is true for Space Marines and Primarchs. 

 

I agree Horus would win, but that hardly makes it an easy fight.

 

No, it doesn't matter how good the Astartes is. Primarchs are faster, stronger, and tougher. It's like pitting a normal human against 616 Captain America. All it takes for a Primarch to kill an Astartes is a single punch, and he doesn't even need armor to do that.

 

 

Primarchs aren't *that* good, they can down lesser warriors yes, but just because of their genetic enhancement it doesn't mean they automatically puts arses in seats. When it comes down to it, a Primarch is still just an individual just as Abaddon is an individual.

 

An individual who is empowered by four chaos gods and wielding a sword that rips holes in reality.

[Loesh]

 

 

 

not necessarily, just like any mutation or augmentation, there are advantages and disadvantages and thats simply assuming that such an modification was a "success"

 

also, if anything is true about 40k literature, its that often some of the most important information is that which is not written.

 

 

Those things are, however, implied. Just being a product of Fabius Bile isn't enough to imply to me that he was equipped with genetically deficient organs, it's far too specific.

 

I need more evidence to come to such a conclusion, and to my eyes it least, it seemed like it was just plain old Horus.

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

When it comes to saying ""Horus could just punch Abaddon's head off", I want to ask a question. Remember Temba? The guy corrupted by Nurgle? Who could fight on even ground with Horus long enough to wound him? And that wasn't even a mark, just a small piece of power from one God.

 

Now imagine a full Mark. Now imagine four of them. Now imagine the will that combined the four individual Marks into one single Mark.

 

And there's Horus, the Eugan Temba the Gods used to fatally wound the Emperor so He would be where they wanted Him to be.

 

So who would really win? The man who would become Emperor? Or the Warmaster who would be the sacrificial bullet?

Tembra wounded Horus thanks to the sword he wielded, which was the Anathame- looted from the Interex by Erebus. The blade that's so powerful it can permanently kill perpetuals.

 

However, for ordinary weapons, Primarch flesh is stronger then the very terminator armor that Abaddon wears. A single punch from the actual Primarch should fell him instantly.

just to clarify the anathame is not the fulgurite...

^Pretty much.

 

That and we saw Eugan Temba move with reflexes a normal human was not able to move with.

 

So the point still stands about proportional power. A primarch might be able to punch Abaddon's head off. But that blow has to connect first.

[Volt]

 

 

 

Primarchs can kill Space Marines, in Armor, with a single punch. Abaddon's marks aren't going to do anything to protect Horus from simply knocking his head clean off, MK style.

 

Ehhh, I don't know. It depends largely on the Space Marine, I know humans can kick a Space Marines arse with absurd training, i'm certain the same is true for Space Marines and Primarchs. 

 

I agree Horus would win, but that hardly makes it an easy fight.

 

No, it doesn't matter how good the Astartes is. Primarchs are faster, stronger, and tougher. It's like pitting a normal human against 616 Captain America. All it takes for a Primarch to kill an Astartes is a single punch, and he doesn't even need armor to do that.

 

 

Primarchs aren't *that* good, they can down lesser warriors yes, but just because of their genetic enhancement it doesn't mean they automatically puts arses in seats. When it comes down to it, a Primarch is still just an individual just as Abaddon is an individual.

 

An individual who is empowered by four chaos gods and wielding a sword that rips holes in reality.

 

 

I distinctly remember Lorgar getting shot in the face with a Titan Plasma Blaster and walking it off. And Corax shrugging off lascannons like they were nothing. And Angron being burried under a thousand tonnes of rocks and just punching his way through the rubble. And the Lion punching Nemiel's head clean off with a single strike. And Fulgrim tanking blows that would shatter Terminator armor yet failed to bruise his flesh. And I'm pretty sure the old Index Astartes Articles mentioned stuff like Primarchs being able to level mountains.

 

Either way, get back to me when Abaddon tanks a shot from a Titan's plasma blaster or survives a thunderhammer swing to his bare face and just walks it off like it's nothing.

[Loesh]

 

 

 

I distinctly remember Lorgar getting shot in the face with a Titan Plasma Blaster and walking it off. And Corax shrugging off lascannons like they were nothing. And Angron being burried under a thousand tonnes of rocks and just punching his way through the rubble. And the Lion punching Nemiel's head clean off with a single strike. And Fulgrim tanking blows that would shatter Terminator armor yet failed to bruise his flesh. And I'm pretty sure the old Index Astartes Articles mentioned stuff like Primarchs being able to level mountains.

 

Either way, get back to me when Abaddon tanks a shot from a Titan's plasma blaster or survives a thunderhammer swing to his bare face and just walks it off like it's nothing.

 

 

 

Didn't Lorgar have a shield over his face at the time? I know there are such defenses even when the helms off. Regardless, Konrad was still killed by M'shen even if he wanted to die, to say they can't be harmed by mortal weapons seems ridiculous to me, in no small part because it conjures the image of her sawing at his head for an hour while he complains about her not going faster.

[Volt]

 

 

 

 

I distinctly remember Lorgar getting shot in the face with a Titan Plasma Blaster and walking it off. And Corax shrugging off lascannons like they were nothing. And Angron being burried under a thousand tonnes of rocks and just punching his way through the rubble. And the Lion punching Nemiel's head clean off with a single strike. And Fulgrim tanking blows that would shatter Terminator armor yet failed to bruise his flesh. And I'm pretty sure the old Index Astartes Articles mentioned stuff like Primarchs being able to level mountains.

 

Either way, get back to me when Abaddon tanks a shot from a Titan's plasma blaster or survives a thunderhammer swing to his bare face and just walks it off like it's nothing.

 

 

 

Didn't Lorgar have a shield over his face at the time? I know there are such defenses even when the helms off. Regardless, Konrad was still killed by M'shen even if he wanted to die, to say they can't be harmed by mortal weapons seems ridiculous to me, in no small part because it conjures the image of her sawing at his head for an hour while he complains about her not going faster.

 

He got killed by what was most like a Necron Phase Weapon. IE something that completely ignores durability of everything and can cut through anything by phasing through it.

[Loesh]

 

He got killed by what was most like a Necron Phase Weapon. IE something that completely ignores durability of everything and can cut through anything by phasing through it.

 

 

 

 

And Abaddon has a sword that cuts through reality itself, I think that's equal....at least.

[Kol Saresk]

Lorgar was not shot in the face. He held up a psychic shield. And he did not walk it off either. His armor was melted to his skin. He had to use Enuncia to accelerate his healing factor and even then, he still looked like crap and still had third degree burns until after the Armatura campaign.

 

Oh hey, does anyone remember the Lion? And how Luther, who is still alive beneath the Rock, put him in a coma? Fun stuff.

[Wade Garrett]

All I'm going to say is that there's an incident where Abby, four marks, Drach'yen, the whole shebang, took a whipping from and was forced to retreat by Eldrad.

 

Eldrad.

 

This guy, who was put on the run by Eldrad, can defeat a circa M31 Horus Lupercal or the Emperor.

 

This is a thing which has been said unironically.

[Loesh]

All I'm going to say is that there's an incident where Abby, four marks, Drach'yen, the whole shebang, took a whipping from and was forced to retreat by Eldrad.

 

Eldrad.

 

This guy, who was put on the run by Eldrad, can defeat a circa M31 Horus Lupercal or the Emperor.

 

This is a thing which has been said unironically.

 

Well to be fair, Eldrad is a dick.

[Lord Marshal Ragnrok]

Lorgar was not shot in the face. He held up a psychic shield. And he did not walk it off either. His armor was melted to his skin. He had to use Enuncia to accelerate his healing factor and even then, he still looked like crap and still had third degree burns until after the Armatura campaign.

 

Oh hey, does anyone remember the Lion? And how Luther, who is still alive beneath the Rock, put him in a coma? Fun stuff.

 

well i always interpreted it as the Lion went into coma after he was taken by the Watchers, not directly Luther's fault.  i have always agreed though, that Luther had a sever psychological effect on the Lion before he went comatose.

[Kol Saresk]

There's also the point that Luther survived the fight.

[Gree]

Horus almost killed the Emperor.

 

Eldrad almost killed Abaddon.

 

I'll let others do the math on that one.

 

As for Abaddon's hatred of Horus, I find that to be rather amusing considering he's accomplished so much less over ten thousand years, than Horus did in seven years. His accusations of Horus being a fool and a failure ring a bit hollow there. Then again, Abaddon appearantly isn't allowed to truly and meaningfully win by the Chaos Gods who like to yank his chain.

[Kol Saresk]

And what exactly has Horus achieved? Lorgar built the framework and the infrastructure of the Heresy. All Horus did was lead it. And from what we've seen so far, that control was minimal considering we already have Traitors trying to kill each other and going on their own rampages.

 

Meanwhile, you get Abaddon. The warlord who built the empire in hell from the ground up. The warlord who controls that empire with an iron fist. And not to mention that in the twelve times he's been to battle with the Imperium, they've only driven back three of those times. And one of those successful crusades reached from the Eye of Terror to the Maelstrom and back. Not to mention that according to the most recent sourcebook to be published concerning Chaos(Imperial Armour 13: Warmachines of the Lost and the Damned), he's breached the Cadian Gate and is on his way to Terra with the Imperium throwing everything it can in his way and only stemming the tide.