Rasclomalum Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Do you find them useful? I perosnally find that frost weapons suffer from being slated between power weapons and specialist weapons in terms of cost and power. Unfortunately, all this means in terms of crunch is that they lack a niche to fill. If you want cheap and cheerful, and retain that bolt pistol extra attack, just go with a power weapon. If you want beatstick power, go with a specialist weapon. I mean, you save five points by giving your Thunderlord a frost axe instead of a power fist, and given the latter's ability to threaten the heaviest of tanks, instakill pretty much all MEQ characters without EW and wound more or less anything on 2's... no sense going cheap there. Wolf Claws were better than Frost Swords in previous editions and now that they're brought up to strength parity with the frost swords you kinda see where this is going. I think one possible solution is to make frost weapons specialist weapons. Yeah, you lose the extra attack if you pair it with a bolt pistol or plasma pistol, but that's something you'll never really do anyway – if you're going for cheapness, you want a power weapon. If you're going to spend more than that you just go for a TH/SS or something. So what I propose is that the frost axe would be another thunder hammer/chainfist variant (a power fist with a USR). A frost sword would be a wolf claw with that same USR in lieu of Shred. But then comes the problem, what USR? Helfrost? Possibly too OP. There is also, I think, nothing in the fluff that says frost weapons are particularly cold (despite their name). Master-crafted? Makes fluff sense but would make the frost sword encroach on the Wolf Claw's territory. Rage? Rampage? Or even Poison (just call it Krakenfang sharpness and make up some fluff about Iron Priests making these weapons really sharp and retain the Poison rule). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 A TDAWG with power sword and frost axe ia 48 points - the same cost as a dual WC model. Personally I think i'd actually lean towards the frost axe guy. But I agree that it's often hard to justify using them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3851764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 A TDAWG with power sword and frost axe is 48 points Away from Codex, but can you even do that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3851768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 A TDAWG with power sword and frost axe is 48 points Away from Codex, but can you even do that? See the FAQ, you can now equip a couple more things than listed in the codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3851781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 A TDAWG with power sword and frost axe ia 48 points - the same cost as a dual WC model. Personally I think i'd actually lean towards the frost axe guy. But I agree that it's often hard to justify using them. That seems like it'd be a great build for a Terminator Pack Leader, due to the potential to ID T3 multi-wound characters and hurt big MCs. For standard infantry killing the Wolf Claws are nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3852574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 wolf claws are definitely better vs standard meq infantry (shred means they wound slightly more than the axe, and at higher initiative) but the ps plus fa loadout is still very good there. Vs TDA, light to middling AV or high toughness MCs, the frost axe really comes to the fore. Especially vs terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3852580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Frost Weapons suffer from being the middle child between Fists and Power Weapons. For 5 points more you can get superior strength, albeit one less attack, while a PW saves you points. The only use for Frost Weapons in my eyes are those awkward moments where you have only 20 points left and no way to shave off another 5 points for a fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3852735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 My point exactly. Hence, go the full hog and use them as a special weapon USR delivery system. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3852833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Frost Weapons suffer from being the middle child between Fists and Power Weapons. For 5 points more you can get superior strength, albeit one less attack, while a PW saves you points. The only use for Frost Weapons in my eyes are those awkward moments where you have only 20 points left and no way to shave off another 5 points for a fist. Or you want some variety in your models. I am sorely tempted to re-configure some 2nd hand Tartaros Termies with Shields and a mix of axes/hammers after the FAQ dropped. Whereas 'just another Hammernator unit' leaves me cold. Variety being the spice of life and all that jazz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3852853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Rules-wise, shield plus frost axe is bad because it is strictly inferior to TH+SS at the same price. PW +SS is 5 points cheaper but packs much less punch. However, in a unit of TH+SS it might be smart to mix in at least a couple combi+shield or power sword+shield models. You're likely to take a casualty before your i1 step and having a model with an i4 attack to sacrifice may be advantageous (he won't be alive to swing a hammer so the extra s and AP is irrelevant). Even still, it would be power, not frost I would go with here. Only contexts I can think of are dual wield terminators and maaaybe a frost axe + bp on a TWC (i'd lean away from it. I would favour naked, fist, and shield, but frost axe plus bolt pistol is not bad, and I might take one simply for variety if I felt like something different). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Rules-wise, shield plus frost axe is bad because it is strictly inferior to TH+SS at the same price. [...] Unless you talking TWC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 yeah, true. I meant for TDAWG. I'd argue FA plus shield is not good for TWC though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 yeah, true. I meant for TDAWG. I'd argue FA plus shield is not good for TWC though. Only if if has access to furious charge in some manner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander_Moustache Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I will say that while frost axes arent really worth it, except on wolf guard unit champions, frost blades are a better option. Its nice to have the +1S without losing the intiative penalty, even if it is only ap3, while still keeping the +1 attack from 2 close combat weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasclomalum Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 The crunch verdict is always that claws are better, despite the loss of one attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 you don't lose an attack if you're talking about a pair. Also technically the sword is better against most infantry (on a thunderwolf if the sword gets an extra attack over the claw), if you are wounding on twos and have preferred enemy. Without preferred enemy it is very close. axe vs claw is a bit tougher to compare. Apples and oranges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298803-frost-weapons/#findComment-3853341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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