Ranged Wolf Guard in a CoF list

[Strata]

Now obviously, in the CoF Detachment, our Wolf Guard get a bonus to their weapon skill, thats not what im wondering about at the moment however. What niche can we fit out Wolf Guard into as a ranged element to support our assault? The standard 5+combis seems well.. a standard load out. Would there ever be any benefit to taking them with bolters, over taking a grey hunter squad, aside from doing a thematic force? How about any other set ups that you more seasoned wolf lords can think of?

[Donkalleone]

Here a list for 1500pts CoF

 

Herald 190pts

 

IP TWM with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

IP TWM with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

 

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

 

5 TWC with 2 SS , Pistols and Chainswords

 

1490 pts in total

 

Under 12" each WG has "6" Shots (2 + 2 TL). Meaning a Unit with 6 has 24 Shots and then Assault killing the small Units.

While Providing Cover for ur IP and TWC.

 

Not Competetive but Fun (i think)

 

When u Drop the SS  you can even make 5 Biker Units

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Here a list for 1500pts CoF

 

Herald 190pts

 

IP TWM with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

IP TWM with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

 

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

6 WG on Bikes with Bolters , 2 SS and a Meltabomb 185pts

 

5 TWC with 2 SS , Pistols and Chainswords

 

1490 pts in total

 

Under 12" each WG has "6" Shots (2 + 2 TL). Meaning a Unit with 6 has 24 Shots and then Assault killing the small Units.

While Providing Cover for ur IP and TWC.

 

Not Competetive but Fun (i think)

 

When u Drop the SS  you can even make 5 Biker Units

 

How about dropping the SS for a biker Rune Priest? Even two if you can manage to find the points in other places.

 

Biomancy synergizes so well with Thunderwolf Cavalry, and since the Priest would be on a bike and doesn't want to disrupt fleet, you could run them alongside the Cavalry. Heck, if you draw Warp Speed, you could move the Priest into the Cavalry unit if you wanted.

 

The potential to draw Endurance is a huge boon for the Thunderwolves, and even if you don't get it the other powers are mostly useful, especially in context of this sort of list.

 

Also, Wolf Guard on bikes get jink so they need the Storm Shields less than anyone.

[skeletoro]

what do you mean by "6" shots?

I agree that the biggest drawcard for bikers is the rune priests they can bring along for the ride. And who can then lend buffs to your TWC ;)

[Donkalleone]

You are Right! Jink is a huge boost and makes the SS kinda redundant. Since all WG wont be shot and sacking 30pts per unit is big Plus for only 1-2 Units that jink.Regardless: I think to many RP are bad cause still need Bodies.

 

New List

 

Harald Deathwolf 190pts

Rune Priest Bike LvL2 105pts

Rune Priest Bike LvL2 105pts

 

IP TWM Pistol with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

IP TWM Pistol with 4 Cyberwolves 165pts

 

6 WG on Bikes with Pistol/CS  a Meltabomb 155pts

6 WG on Bikes with Pistol/CS  a Meltabomb 155pts

6 WG on Bikes with Pistol/CS  a Meltabomb 155pts

5 WG on Bikes with Pistol/CS a Meltabomb 130pts

5 WG on Bikes with Pistol/CS  a Meltabomb 130pts

 

5 TWC with Chainsword and Pistol 200pts

 

Dead on 1500pts

 

EDIT I misread the Rulez. Since only the Bike or the Rider can attack i dropped the Bolters for Pistols for +1 Attack in CC.

[skeletoro]

you can't shoot the bolters in addition to the bike's armament though, unless I am missing something.

 

and statistically, twin linked is a 33% increase in damage output for BS 4 (hit chance goes up from 6/9 to 8/9, and 8 is 1/3 more than 6)

[Frater Cornelius]

This isn't exactly a ranged list though. The greatest power still comes from melee. The only half-decent ranged WG are TDA because they can take a heavy weapon and are not hampered by rapid fire range. WG lose out big-time due to their inability to take special or heavy weapons.

The closest equivalent are Sternguard. Not nearly as awesome in melee but their increased ranged armoury and ammo make them far more shooty.

[Valerian]

What niche can we fit out Wolf Guard into as a ranged element to support our assault?

 

No reason to try to shoe-horn Wolf Guard into something they are not.  Their advantages lie in close combat (extra Attack, extra Weapon Skill if you're using CoF, access to special close combat weapons, etc.).  They do not, however, have a significant shooting advantage over alternative units, and still have to pay for their close combat advantages.  Sure, you can Alpha Strike with a handful of Wolf Guard with Combi-weapons in a Drop Pod, but that does not a 'Ranged Element' make.  Instead, I would recommend that you stick with units that are already geared toward ranged combat, and then equip them in a way that best enables them to do the job that you have in mind for them.

 

V

[Z00Z]

Here's a very situational application that I could see would work, however it is situational. 

 

Take the thunderstrike formation from CoF. Equip 10x WG PA with combi-plasmas. Equip the termies how you prefer, personally i'm leaning towards 4xSS+SB (free @ 33pts), 1XSS+AC plus an accompanying RP TDA ML2.

 

Total pts is a bit hefty,  315+185+110

 

but...you get 20 plasma's twin-linked on the turn they arrive + 8 SB + 4 AC, all TL. 

The RP is there to roll on divination, trying to get forewarning,or perfect timing. If not the others in the tree are also useful. 

 

shoot plasma, shoot termies, TL's will save you from gets hot, on run for cover behind termies after. 

 

Its gimicky but thats a substantial amount of firepower and defence ability, it will take your opponents a few turns to dislodge and hopefully, the true CC can arrive with less focus

[Oz of the North]

When I run CoF Thunderstrike I like to run with 10 wgpa in drop pod with 5-10 combi plas and with the wgtda I like to use 5, 4 w/ combi-plas and storm shield and 1 with th/ss and cyclone, so can benefit from 1st turn twin-linked. Always a good way to evaporate a unit, but biggest issue is this is quite a few points and if not coming in on time can really ruin your day.

[Z00Z]

This is my issue with the formation too. I know there has been discussion on it in the past, but are 100% sure that if it is your only drop pod or 1 of 3 they both dont come in automatically turn 1? I've tried to dissolve the specific rule for the formation, it says roll on reserves they both come in together, but what if you dont have to roll due to turn 1 drop pod rule? Also, if we saying no due to not rolling, surely that will invalidate the formation's entry? i.e. as a whole formation?

[Jochteas]

If I was going to use the thunderstrike formation (and it certainly has its uses) I would try to shoehorn in a group of void claw formation as well, giving the reroll for reserves would be huge.

[skeletoro]

I have been wondering about combo flamers, misfortune and tgunderstrike. Reroll to wound rending template weapons. Unfortunately you have to get misfortune for it to work.

[Valerian]

Unfortunately you have to get misfortune for it to work.

 

And there's the rub.  With the advent of random tables, vice pay-as-you-go, you can no longer count on strategies like these to actually be available when you need them.

 

v

[skeletoro]

That's what has stopped me trying it. That said, you could spam a few rune priests with divination and have a good chance of getting it for one of them. And even if you didn't, div is still good and rune priests aren't expensive.

[Frater Cornelius]

And that ia not counting improved DtW rolls some units get against maledictions.

[skeletoro]

Most armies won't be able to stop you from casting it if you want to.

[Frater Cornelius]

But the most played ones will.

[skeletoro]

Not buying it man, elaborate perhaps?

[Frater Cornelius]

Many Imperial factions bring INQ as Warp Charge battery. GK allies bring plenty Warp Charges. Eldar stop smaller powers right in their tracks if they need it. Same with Daemons. Only Tau and Necrons do not have anything as of yet to stop it reliably.

 

Obviously, this won't always happen. You can bait their deny charges with other powers or cast it with around 4-5 charges yourself, but that would be a waste.

[skeletoro]

Though I agree that many opponents will have a decent number of warp charges, those examples aren't what I'd call hard counters. When up against that kind of opponent you'd need to spend more warp charges to get the power off with acceptable reliability, which would make it more costly to use.

In some contexts though, it would still be well worth it. Dropping half a dozen flamer templates on a unit of terminators, with rerolling wounds and rending, would be quite hilarious. But between random powers, the once off nature of combis, the fact that there might not be any appropriate targets to use it on, and, as you say, the practicalities of getting a power off, I haven't been able to convince myself that it's worth bothering with.

But it's a fun exercise to think about. It may be that there are ways to do a similar thing (template shred rending) with more reliability. Guardians plus the eldar reroll wounds blessing would be much easier to do, but we're SW Salamander allied sternguard wouldn't require the formation (but you'd need an allied detachment instead).

TWC with wolf claws (or even preferred enemy, to some extent) get this out of the box, but seeing as they often will be wounding on a 2+ anyway, shred actually won't raise the chance of a rend very much

Anyway, [/sidetrack]

[Frater Cornelius]

It is a decent option and it can be devastating, no doubt. But it is extremely situational and requires too many components to call it a reliable strategy. That is my point.

[skeletoro]

yeah its one of those things that for me is a 'watch this space' sort of thing. The synergy is great in principle but the hoops you need to jump through are currently too numerous.