New Dark Eldar

[Darkmagi]

by my calculations your libby should only cost 135

[calvin the wraithlord]

by my calculations your libby should only cost 135

bare bone libby (110) points

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I gotta wonder how often you even see a dark eldar army or just skimmed a book. 

 

Haven't played the new book. I do have regular DE opponents in my area though. I'm speaking from the perspective of an opponent and what would worry me more in the matchup. I'm sure DE take other stuff for dealing with other armies. 

Alpha strike and blasters/born dont go together.

 

It does if you get first turn. DE going second basically forces them to Reserve, as they cannot afford to lose anything to enemy fire before its even committed to a target. I've been on the receiving end of Blasterborn, they're a pain. AV10 might be paper mache to most anti-tank but when you're dealing with Jink it's still gonna absorb more firepower than some Scourges (who melt to any kind of anti-infantry, ghostplate might as well not be there). 

Scourges have DS and move 12" and fire then they're cheaper, 

 

Enjoy getting Intercepted, you don't have Pod protection or Terminator defences to keep you alive. 12" move pales in comparison to Venom speeds. Suicide haywire against high AV annoyances like Knight-Titans is what Scourges are good for. 

Lance warriors are crap. They will struggle for LoS and far overpay for a single lance shot when you could simply buy another boat or something dedicated AT.

 

So? What other specials or heavy would you take? Shredders are meh and the splinter cannon gets the awful new Salvo treatment, so they're out. You are paying a bit but its still not Marine prices to spam lance. I don't see you getting the critical mass of lance without taking it on your min Warriors (you need them to unlock the much better dedicated Raiders, and leave FA slots open for Reavers or whatever). Warriors are awful by themselves, their poison guns rarely do much in a firefight and they melt like Guardsmen to return fire. 

New reavers are miles ahead of the former due to hitting vehicles and rending 

 

Yeah which is great but heat lance doesn't scare Dreadknights anywhere near as much as blasters. Also, you're only getting 1 special per 3 with Reavers, which is less than Scourges or Blasterborn. I dunno why you'd say they're better, if they're in melee they are likely to die unless its a tank. At least before you could turbo-fun over people for auto-hits. With that gone they're basically just tank-hunters that are faster than most others. Knights don't take vehicles so I'm not concerned seeing Reavers. Even Strikes can kill them in melee. 

beasts owned many large events long past when the other stars faltered, all the way up until gw crushed the build. It was designed to beat seerstar btw.. the premiere star until much cheaper much larger less gimicky beast star came along to dominate realestate.

 

Yeah it was good, I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm just saying its a build that's dead and buried. 

Id say your in the minority of non dark eldar players with an opinion on an army you obviously know little about. Which is probably why your lance warrior packing opponents aren't doing so hot. 

 

Lance spam has been the trend up until now. They're tried other Warrior specials and they just don't do anything. At one point people weren't even taking Warriors, just Wracks for objective camping and spamming Raiders that way. Now of course Wracks are for Haemo lists only, so its back to Warriors (shrug) I don't play DE but I've played a bunch of games against them through multiple editions. Lances are the single biggest answer they have to 90% of problems. MC's, any kind of mech or artillery, Marines/Terminators etc etc...the one thing it doesn't answer is of course horde lists, which DE have always suffered against. 

Quad guns really? Whens the last time you saw one honestly or tried to field one against DE? So thats list tailoring and it sacrifices your reserve manipulation not that DE even break a sweat removing a couple meq wounds. Meanwhile have you ever seen what full disintegrator spam does to meq/teq? Its like incins but with 36" range removing 40 pt models. DE are a spoiler army. If they want to beat you and feel like tailoring they will do it. 

 

Quad guns still crop up from time to time. Plus you have things like MissileSides that replicate the same thing (S7 AP4 spam Interception). Quad-gun kills DE Flyers pretty reliably, so its not that big a deal. Comms Array is nice but some lists don't need Reserve aids, they need counters. Also, new Vengeance Batteries pack quad Icarus lascannon, and they can be 2 per Fortification slot. They deal with Vendettas, Helturkeys, FMC's etc. You should expect anti-air Interception in at least some matchups, Tau have it natively. 

 

DE can spoil elite low model count (disintegrator spam is the bane of us and other Marines), but they give up lance firepower to do so, which means you're out of luck against mech lists (which AM still do) or high AV (like Knight-Titans, or AV13 wall Necrons etc). 

And then you didn't even take into account what WWPs and open topped skimmers bring to units like scytheguard and firedragons. 

 

Interceptor and Coteaz both deal with WWP very effectively. WWP lists haven't been viable for that exact reason for quite some time. Eldar already have Serpents for delivering those units (and not melee Wraithguard, you take the D flamer ones, much better), which would they take much more fragile Raiders? 

What happens when he flips your alpha and just bunkers some grots up in a corner then drops ap2 ID templates melta and disi cannons all over the next turn? 

 

What are you referring to? DE+Eldar? Yeah its strong, no question. But its more because Eldar are amazing, rather than DE being powerful. 

 Lets be real here its one mid tier dex against the other and it will be bloody. Its not a walk over like what was portrayed initially in this thread by some. But, if were going 'that' direction with this thing then emos can step this to levels marines just can't.   

 

No argument. Even with 'Sanctuary' up you need multiple DK's to ensure even one makes it into their lines alive. Terminators (our core) also get punished by all the AP2 ranged DE can bring, plus Incubi carve them up in melee. Our support units are all in PA, again similar issue as Terminators. It'll be bloody but we have the tools to take out the problem units (Ravagers being the key target) early. After that its down to who rolls better really. 

[Brom MKIV]

Haven't played the new book. I do have regular DE opponents in my area though. I'm speaking from the perspective of an opponent and what would worry me more in the matchup. I'm sure DE take other stuff for dealing with other armies.

 

Fair enough, I can see much of this as coming from the perspective of a close up aggressive player/army. I would bet your opponents have adjusted to deal with your army, maybe your local environment in general.

 

What other specials or heavy would you take?

 

On warriors I take nothing. Sometimes not even a ride since I can get unrestricted rides in FA allowing more flexibility in deployment etc.

Yeah which is great but heat lance doesn't scare Dreadknights anywhere near as much as blasters. Also, you're only getting 1 special per 3 with Reavers, which is less than Scourges or Blasterborn. I dunno why you'd say they're better, if they're in melee they are likely to die unless its a tank. At least before you could turbo-fun over people for auto-hits. With that gone they're basically just tank-hunters that are faster than most others. Knights don't take vehicles so I'm not concerned seeing Reavers. Even Strikes can kill them in melee.

 

GKs are very well equipped to deal with reavers, at least until they get FNP to mitigate templates somewhat. Most armies are nowhere near that well off though, which is why I like GKs. Also they can take blasters fwiw. Its a 58 pt relentless blaster (vs the warrior variety at 55 just for comparison and again consider empty transports). The HoW looks meh especially on units of 3.. but consider they can combo assault, absorb overwatch like say lone koptas etc. Not many units can get smacked with 4-5 D6 S6 rending hits at init 10 and have much left to retaliate. Then regular HoW then init 5 attacks. Then hit and run. I complained at first but trust me they're straight better.

 

Interceptor I rarely see btw. In fact I see it from tau thats it. 7th pretty much killed peoples desire for skyfiring forts around here. Good call on coteaz though I had forgotten what a pain in the arse (or friend) he can be.

What are you referring to? DE+Eldar? Yeah its strong, no question. But its more because Eldar are amazing, rather than DE being powerful.

 

Yes although not necessary, but adding eldar makes everything stronger. Im referring to cheap durable units that can survive a full alpha strike by denial and flip it back with a beta strike. Much more difficult to design without DPA/NSF etc but its completely doable and sometimes necessary if your friends start running alpha strike lists against you like mine have.

 

 

 

Calvin- I think your list looks balanced and friendly with only 1 NDK, but not weak since you didnt overspend on your HQs. You have 30 meq/teq bodies which is solid at 1.5k.

 

Im still doubting the raven but a lot depends on his army and choices too. One wrong move and the purifiers can deliver a deathblow to that army. However I will say that a full squad + bird is a lot to have off the table without reserve control especially against a shooty army. Can you beat him playing down 1/3 of your force for an unknown length of time? If so the benefits are probably worth it. If not you should change it.

My only other suggestion would then be to find room for ml 3 and liber daemonica on the libby. Getting cleansing flame on turn 1 is that good.

 

I will be interested to hear what he brought and how your list performed. Good luck.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Fair enough, I can see much of this as coming from the perspective of a close up aggressive player/army. I would bet your opponents have adjusted to deal with your army, maybe your local environment in general.

 

They're not super meta focused really. They've just all found lances more useful than other special weapons. One of them takes triple Talos still, I dunno if that's still the case with their 7th edition book now out (my guess would be no). 

GKs are very well equipped to deal with reavers, at least until they get FNP to mitigate templates somewhat. Most armies are nowhere near that well off though, which is why I like GKs. Also they can take blasters fwiw. Its a 58 pt relentless blaster (vs the warrior variety at 55 just for comparison and again consider empty transports). The HoW looks meh especially on units of 3.. but consider they can combo assault, absorb overwatch like say lone koptas etc. Not many units can get smacked with 4-5 D6 S6 rending hits at init 10 and have much left to retaliate. Then regular HoW then init 5 attacks. Then hit and run. I complained at first but trust me they're straight better.

 

Between their fragility at range (FNP can't be taken against our weapons as they cause ID to T3), Overwatch...I don't see it man. Not against Knights at least. Against mech I can see Reavers causing havok, but you charge them into anything that can absorb that initial hit (anything MeQ or better), and you face a real risk of being bogged down in melee, if not ripped apart. Also, as I recall, they don't have frags? 

Agree to disagree I guess.

Interceptor I rarely see btw. In fact I see it from tau thats it. 7th pretty much killed peoples desire for skyfiring forts around here. Good call on coteaz though I had forgotten what a pain in the arse (or friend) he can be.

 

Oh, another Tau build that's doing the round is triple Skyray. People are taking it to counter enemy FMC and Flyer spam. Seeker missiles do better against those targets than missile pod, and tagging air targets with networked markerlights is pretty nasty (as Tau can boost Snap Shots ie break the game rules entirely). YYMV but I still see Fortifications taken by lists that can't get good Skyfire. Vengeance Batteries are popular in 40k and 30k for that reason. 

Yes although not necessary, but adding eldar makes everything stronger. Im referring to cheap durable units that can survive a full alpha strike by denial and flip it back with a beta strike. Much more difficult to design without DPA/NSF etc but its completely doable and sometimes necessary if your friends start running alpha strike lists against you like mine have.

 

Eldar don't do durable, unless you mean their mech or Wraith units. DE are kinda in an awkward spot as Eldar don't really want or need their help anymore. Eldar are kinda stronger going pure or Allying Tau these days (shrug) the 7th edition codex is a downgrade in some aspects. 

 

 

HQ

Librarian (110)

Psyker (Mastery Level 2); ; Nemesis Force Halberd; terminator armour; frag grenades; krak grenades; psyk-out grenades; psychic hood

 

Troops

4 Terminator Squad (205) x2

4× two Nemesis falchions; 3× storm bolter; psycannon; frag

grenades; krak grenades; psyk-out grenades

+ 1 Terminator Justicar two Nemesis falchions

 

Elites

9 Purifier Squad (300)

5× two Nemesis falchions; storm bolter; 4×

incinerator; frag grenades; krak grenades; psyk-out grenades

+ 1 Knight Of The Flame Nemesis Demon Hammer

 

Fast attack

Stormraven Gunship (201)

twin-linked assault cannon; twin-linked heavy bolter; searchlight; four

stormstrike missiles; ceramite plating

 

9 Interceptor squad (264)

7× Nemesis force sword; storm bolter; 2x incinerator; frag grenades; krak grenades; psyk-out grenades; personal teleporters

+1 Justicar two Nemesis falchions

 

Heavy support

Nemesis dreadknight (215)

heavy incinerator; heavy psycannon;  personal teleporter

1500 pts

 

Your biggest problem is you're investing too heavily into MeQ. DE will rip MeQ units apart no problem at range. One DK is just going to die Turn 1 to focused fire, you need at least two. Raven+Purifiers is a combo that's better at higher point levels, 2k ideally. As Brom points out thats a lot of points off-table, in which time they could easily wipe out your ground forces. 

 

I'd honestly go Nemesis Strikeforce

 

HQ:

 

Librarian w/stave+combi-plasma

(120 points)

 

Troops:

 

(2) Justicar w/sword, 2x Terminators w/psycannon, 7x Terminators w/sword

(370 points each)

 

Justicar w/sword, Terminator w/incinerator, 3x Terminators w/swords

(170 points)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(2) Dreadknight w/hammer+heavy psycannon, teleporter

(200 points each)

 

Fortifications:

 

Aegis Line w/Comms Relay

(70 points)

 

Total: 1500 points on the dot

[calvin the wraithlord]

In an ideal world id have another DK, but i only own one and im not one for proxying, oddly enough in my collection i have over 50 suits of term armor and less than 25 power armor marines, i recon your right that im relying heavily on MEQs but at the same time i have faith, i think that as long as i play it smart ill be able to decimate him, ill upload a wee battle report once its been played

[Reclusiarch Darius]

If you can't bring additional DK's just bring more Terminators. They're not as good but they cost about the same for a combat squad with hammer and psycannon upgrade.

[jeffersonian000]

I'd advise Interceptors with Incinerators, spammed, in Combat Squads, attacking open topped transports with DEs embarked. The GKT can camp objectives while the Shunt units roast the Xeno scum.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd advise Interceptors with Incinerators, spammed, in Combat Squads, attacking open topped transports with DEs embarked. The GKT can camp objectives while the Shunt units roast the Xeno scum.

 

The thing is, you can do the same with DK's for close to the same price. Interceptors kinda melt to everything DE have, whereas DK demand lance attention or they just keep killing things. Also, heavy incinerator being Torrent is a huge deal for DK's, it lets you position your shots much more reliably even if you Shunt into a bad position. Interceptors kinda have to land perfectly next to their target. Admittedly 30" Shunt gives you a lot of wriggle room, but I've messed up Shunts before due to clever enemy deployment. 

[jeffersonian000]

 

I'd advise Interceptors with Incinerators, spammed, in Combat Squads, attacking open topped transports with DEs embarked. The GKT can camp objectives while the Shunt units roast the Xeno scum.

 

The thing is, you can do the same with DK's for close to the same price. Interceptors kinda melt to everything DE have, whereas DK demand lance attention or they just keep killing things. Also, heavy incinerator being Torrent is a huge deal for DK's, it lets you position your shots much more reliably even if you Shunt into a bad position. Interceptors kinda have to land perfectly next to their target. Admittedly 30" Shunt gives you a lot of wriggle room, but I've messed up Shunts before due to clever enemy deployment.

I meant, in addition to Heavy choice NDKs, I'd advise taking Fast choice Interceptors. Duh.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I meant, in addition to Heavy choice NDKs, I'd advise taking Fast choice Interceptors. Duh.

 

;) Mah battle-brother. 

 

On the subject of DE what Allies do people favour? I'm thinking IG, they bring lots of cheap autocannon spam they can Ignore Cover with using Orders. 

[calvin the wraithlord]

Apology's for the massive delay had internet issues that have stopped me posting, the battle went, questionably, the DE went first and therefore there alpha strike was hard as hell, taking the NDK down to one wound and utterly destroying the interceptors, oddly enough it was more the massed fire than the AP2 that hurt me, raiders and splinter racks anyway, turn two the libby came in with his terms, and the Raven with the purifiers, due to the DE moving so far forward so fast i was able to drop the purifiers and cleanse the buggers, in one turn they took out two raiders and the interred squads while the raven destroyed a venom with blaster born, the NDK shunted and hit another venom pretty hard. on the next DE turn the DK fell, lost afew purifiers, due to the raven being in hover it took a wound, but other than that, yeah wasent so bad, was just mop up, lost afew more men but in the end i crunched them down and won, they are defiantly a glass cannon maybe even a paper one, i think if the player i was against had more exp vs GKs it would of been a much harder game but oddly enough my, ehm lets say...Beta strike? was decimating, Purifiers simply proving why they are the single best unit in out codex by one million billion miles yet again, i recon like RD said more DKs in the future( bought one last night :P ) as the one i had just didnt get to live long enough to bring the pain and the interceptors were a waste, even if it was a smaller AV2 squad of terms i had instead of them they would of probley held up better, but yeah, all in all not to bad, although i do still think they could be a hard one for us in the future

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Haha nice one man. Yeah 'Cleansing Flame' is so insane against DE, it melts every unit they have bar Grotesques or Talos, and they have zero psychic defense to stop it. 

[calvin the wraithlord]

Haha thanks man, yeah its brutal vs that T3