Drop Pods and Dreadnoughts

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I know it's been awhile since this thread has seen a post, but Immer... When it comes to poding Dreadnoughts... How well do you think one fairs as opposed to multiples? I've been trying to come up with the best answer to supporting GHs and BCs on the ground, and I feel like our Dreadnoughts really have a lot of potential for getting heavy hitters on the ground to distract from my troops. 2 Dreadnoughts and 3 pods of troops brings the total to 5... so 2 dreads and one full 10 man squad in your face turn one is nothing to sneeze at. Or are GHs and BCs savvy enough to where the extra support is not needed? 

I think having fast units and using them in the way you talk about in this thread could be a good answer as well... they can be in an opponents face almost just as quickly, and if a turn 1 charge is gotten off, they've accomplished more than pod'd units. 

[Jochteas]

Why not go 3 Dreds and use the formation from Champions? They would get TL in mêlée essentially, and a 5+ invul save which would really go a long way to keeping them around.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Because for the way I have my list structured it's a lot of points haha! It would be pretty beast, but I'd be forced to drop my Twolves or a unit of troops. I could possibly get away with 2 units of troops in a 2,000 pt game, but I wouldnt want to risk it, and the TWolves are just to valuable with their speed. 

[Jochteas]

With out knowing your list completely I wouldn't be able to give you more accurate advice.

[Frater Cornelius]

Pretty much. An idea might seem :cuss until you see it on paper. Right away I can say that I am not an advocate of most things with an AV, but I have seen them being used with some success. As I said though, get us a list and some general idea what you like to accomplish with them. Then we can talk.

 

On a side note, I think this could be a separate threat on it's own because not many people will be looking here due to the thread length, especially since we are having a, sort of, change of subject.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

It's changed a bit after reading this thread.

The base line list was

Wolf Lord: TWM, SS, TH, Armor of Russ, x2 FW

Murderfang: Pod

Dreadnought: MM, CCW, HF, Pod

GH-1: x10 GH, x10 CCW, PA, x2 PG, Pod

GH-2: x8 GH, MG, PF, Pod

BC-1: x10 BC, PF

TWC: 3 man unit, SS, TH

After that I was trying to figure out if I wanted to fit in a Stormwolf and 2 units of Long Fangs (x2 LC, x2 ML & x3 PC, x2 HB)

Or one unit of LFs and 2 Vindicators.

_______________________________________________________________________________

After reading this thread and a few others I wrote this list

Wolflord: TWM, SS, TH, AoR, TH, x2 FW

Ulrik

TDAWG: 3 man unit, x3 CP

Arjac

GH-1 (same as above)

GH-2: x7 GH, WGPLTDA, PF, CM, MG, Pod

BC-:1 x10, MG, PF

Fenrisian Wolves: x10

TWC: 4 man unit, x2 SS, PF

Heavy Support for this is I'm considering is one Stormwolf and 2 Vindis or LFs and 2 Vindis.... Also trying to figure out if it would be better to go with 2 dreadnoughts for support instead of the TDAs and Arjac... 

The idea for either list turn one is to have the 2 dreadnoughts come down and support wither BC-1 or GH-2

For the second list, Ulrik goes poding with GH-2

[Frater Cornelius]

Hmm, first Stormwolf is Fast Attack, heavy is Stormfang. You do not want a Stormfang.

 

Dreads only work when there is target saturation. When they get into melee with smaller units they shine. Their shooting isn't anything to write home about.

 

When you drop 3 pods with 2 infantry units and 1 dread, this can potentially work. Save a second dread for turn 2. Alternatively you have great frontal pressure with TWC and drop a few dread behind him, that will work.

Dropping a single dread and that's it will fail.

 

The key is to take out anti-tank guns with the drop. Alternatively they can serve as a target sponge for anti-tank so your TWC will live. They need some finesse to work with, but they are far from useless.

 

I like AsC + HF, MM + HF setups for drop dreads. Cheap-ish, decent ranged and melee combat.

 

Alternatively, BlizzDreads can work as a great distraction, but they are expensive as hell. One at most.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Hmm, first Stormwolf is Fast Attack, heavy is Stormfang. You do not want a Stormfang.

 

Dreads only work when there is target saturation. When they get into melee with smaller units they shine. Their shooting isn't anything to write home about.

 

When you drop 3 pods with 2 infantry units and 1 dread, this can potentially work. Save a second dread for turn 2. Alternatively you have great frontal pressure with TWC and drop a few dread behind him, that will work.

Dropping a single dread and that's it will fail.

 

The key is to take out anti-tank guns with the drop. Alternatively they can serve as a target sponge for anti-tank so your TWC will live. They need some finesse to work with, but they are far from useless.

 

I like AsC + HF, MM + HF setups for drop dreads. Cheap-ish, decent ranged and melee combat.

 

Alternatively, BlizzDreads can work as a great distraction, but they are expensive as hell. One at most.

Ya, I know the stormwolf is FA by unit, but I would be using it as more of a heavy support role.

 

What do you think the issue is with dropping 2 dreads and one unit of troops? Is it the two will just be killed too quickly?

 

I really want to make Arjac and Ulrik work together, but I don't know if I can fit them in this list...

 

Taking your position Immerstrum, I'm really trying to get away from the same ole' formula that have been popular for space wolves, part of that is getting away from filling my HS slots with Long Fangs, which I was so resistant to as a new player, but now I've gotten so used to their overwatch and long range fire support and I have a hard time putting them on the bench. Pretty sure the Stormwolf can function well in their place. I am a BIG fan of the Vindicator, and in my only game of 7th edition they worked very well for me against Necrons. What are everyone's thoughts on how Vindis and Drop Pod assaults work together? 

 

[Frater Cornelius]

Hmmmm. 2 Dreads can work. You can drop Arjac + Ulrik + 5 PAWG with combi weapons. Have TWC advance. Turn 2, come down with 2 more infantry units. You still have the flexibility to drop 3 infantry turn 1 if the enemy has excessive amount of AT.

5 pods is strong.

 

Edit:

To elaborate, LF are no auto-includes anymore. The cost has been normalized. I never liked them. They are way too static for my taste. Stormwolf will do a very good job at tank-busting instead.

I am split on vindicators. On the one hand, they are great terror units, on the other hand they only make 1 shot per turn. I never had much success with them. YMMV.

As for using them along pods. You do not place templates next to your units. If you do, you have no right to complain. Play smart and avoid that.

 

Verdict is that even 2 dread turn 1 can work. Pods are flexible. You can drop infantry first to kill AT. If he has more AI, you drop dreads and see him panic.

 

Only against Serpent Spam and Wraithknight will this get iffy because like all marines they are plagued by lack of ignoring cover and ignoring toughness respectively.

[Amornar]

Hi Immersturm and company. I have been reading this thread and the assault meta killer thread over the past few days while I have been mulling over a list concept I have had. Sadly I don't get many games in due to my geographical location but I am a big theorycrafter and have put together a lot of the thoughts here, elsewhere, and the scariest ones, those from my own head to make a null deployment style list.

 

Great Wolf Detachment

 

Harald

 

Iron Priest w/ mount and 4 cyber wolves

 

5 Wolf Guard in Pod w/ 5 CM

5 Wolf Guard in Pod w/ 5 CM

 

5 TDA Wolf Guard- SS/CP, SS/CP, TH/SS, PS/CP, PA/AsC

5 TDA Wolf Guard- SS/CP, SS/CP, TH/SS, PS/CP, PA/AsC

 

10 Grey Hunters in Pod w/ 2 Meltsguns and Pack Leader w/ CM

 

4 Thunderwolves w/ 2 SS

 

Drop pod

Drop pod

 

Formation!

 

5 Voidclaws

 

1850 Exactly

 

The general goal is to have a null deployment list with hard alpha potential and strong counter attack. Can drop any combo of three units from two melta wolf guard, two plasma TDC, and melta hunters depending on what you are facing plus the void claws. The claws allow the other two to drop plus herald and the thunderwolves to come in via outflanking. I know everyone hates outflanking but I think it's a solid tool here. If you feel you don't need to because of what you are facing by all means just deploy to cover. Goal of this list is to want to go second, waste your opponents turn one shooting then allow for the last turn scramble (hopefully splitting apart thunderwolves). Great Wolf detachment allows the boosted WS all over the place which makes for a surprisingly capable counter attack following up alpha strike retort.

 

Pretty much my two cents, curious to see what others think!

[Valerian]

++Splitting this new discussion out into its own thread.++

[Frater Cornelius]

++Splitting this new discussion out into its own thread.++

Cheers.

 

Aight, more on the drop dreads. Don't bother with them against Necrons, Tau and Eldar. They do fine against the rest. When you use Ironclad or anything else that is AV13, it becomes usable against Tau and Necrons, but rather tough, still useless against Eldar (due to Wraithknights). They are awesome against others.

Drop Dreads are awesome at smaller point games.

Blizz Dread does fine against most, but is still very vulnerable to rear armour shots and damn expensive.

 

@ Amor - The list looks solid. However, I would give one PAWG unit combi-plasmas. I would also drop the Iron Priest for Ulrick and stick him with the Plasma guys. That way 2 pods will have PE from Ulricks bubble and if he lives, the TWC will benefit from it as well. But that depends on taste. IP is awesome on his own and for TWC. Personally, I prefer the IP but Ulrick has merits.

 

However, doing null deployment is the wrong way to play with TWC. They need to charge ASAP. This happens T2, sometimes T1. When they outflank, they are at the mercy of reserves and will charge T3 at best. This is too late to have an impact.

If you truly want null deployment, get 2 more pods and Ulrick instead of the Harald, IP and TWC. Better yet, get a 3rd pod in FA and get an UM allied detachment with Tigurius + Scouts + Grav Cents.

 

That would be the list:

 

 

Primary - CotGW:

Ulrik

5 Wolf Guard in Pod w/ 5 CP

5 Wolf Guard in Pod w/ 4 CM

 

5 TDA Wolf Guard w/ SS/SB, SS/SB, PA/SB, PA/SB, PA/AsC

 

10 Grey Hunters in Pod w/ 2 Melta

 

Drop Pod

Drop Pod

 

Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter and Typhoon ML

 

Allied Detachment

Tigurius

 

5 Scouts w/ Bolters in Land Speeder Storm w/ Heavy Bolter

 

Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter and Typhoon ML

 

3 Dev-Centurions w/ Grav-Cannons and Omniscope

Formation

5 Voidclaws

 

1850

 

Tiggy and Cents go into the Pod. Let tiggy roll on divinaton for 4++ and ignore cover. Ulrik lands T1 with Tiggy and 2 squads, depending on which one you need. Here you can even do complete null deployment because Speeder can stay in reserve without much trouble. With Tiggy you also get to re-roll UM reserves, so 2/3 reserve speeders are guaranteed to arrive.