Stormraven or Land Raider Redeemer?

[Helias_Tancred]

Hi brothers.

Kinda stuck deciding between either a Stormraven or a Redeemer for my DC transport. Here is my starter blood angel army so far:

10 man tactical company- flamer, missile, meltabomb, riding in a Rhino APC

10 man assault company- jetpacks, 2 meltas

Baal Predator- twin linked assault cannon, heavy bolters

Furioso Dreadnought- 2 blood claws, flamer, melta, drop pod

10 man death company- bolters, powerfistx1, powerswordx1, infernus pistolx2

Captain Tycho

Brother Corbulo

Tycho and Corbulo will be with my DC. For transport for this group I'm deciding between a Stormraven gunship or a Land Raider Redeemer?

Which of those transports would have better synergy with the rest of my force?

Thanks

[ElectricPaladin]

So, I've got to tell you... personally, I've never been terribly impressed with the land raider redeemer. I've always preferred the crusader. On a non-fast vehicle with lots of guns, dakka (especially twin-linked dakka) > template. You can move and fire two of your three weapon systems at full BS and still snap fire the remaining gun, but because it's twin-linked, you stand a decent chance of getting some hits. For Blood Angels and their doctrine of ceaseless advance, that's pretty good! Compare to the redeemer, which, if it moves, has to use two of its full BS shots to fire its BS-ignoring template guns. That annoys me. Also, unlike other Marine 'dexes, Blood Angels can get flamestorm cannons on Baals, who are fast and cheaper.

 

tl;dr, if the choice is between LRR and SR, go with the SR... but consider a crusader.

[Red-beard]

I prefer to run my DC in a LR versus a SR for two reasons:

1) The possibility of a turn two assault exists with the LR (SR is turn three at the earliest)

2) I've had my DC-filled SR shot out of the sky only to watch all the DC perish in an awful crash....painful memory. 

 

 

Of all the LR options, I prefer the Redeemer. Crusader is nice too, but it depends on what types of armies you face. I face a lot of Eldar/DE in my local meta and Eldar/DE love their cover saves. Redeemer flamestorm canons are a fabulous ignore-cover option. You can get bolt guns elsewhere in your list, so I don't miss the hurricane bolters on the crusader. On the other hand, S6 AP3 templates are extremely rare. You can put one on a Baal Predator, but you don't want a Baal and its AV11 side armor getting up close and personal.

[Shaezus]

^^^ Ditto this exactly.

 

All things considered, land raiders are destroyed just as easily as stormravens but with the LR you don't end up lamenting the loss of your entire death company in the same instant.

 

Stick with the redeemer.

[Midnightmare]

Don't forget that for the same price as a Crusader, the Redeemer can have the Multimelta which is the winner for me. I usually don't get to use the Redeemer template more than twice a game though, but it is worth it's weight in gold when I do.

[Xenith]

Also, unlike other Marine 'dexes, Blood Angels can get flamestorm cannons on Baals, who are fast and cheaper.

And it's hard for marines to find bolters to match the sponsons on the crusader?

 

Also unsure what you mean. If the LRC moves 12" it only gets the Asscan at full BS (best option aside from mm) and then snap fires the bolters. The redeemer gets a template, then to snap fire the asscan or MM.

 

The crusader was awesome when it came out, as it could hold 8 termies or 12 guys, and has an asscan. The bolters had always been lacklustre apart from against nids. And the rest of the army can find plenty of S4AP5 shooting. The redeemer has the potential to wipe entire squads of MEQ, for which I think it it worth it.

[Helias_Tancred]

Good food for thought. Thank you :)

[Remtek]

Stormraven will be superior in most cases, but it can get iffy if you don't have reserve manipulation. Drop Pods coming in turn 1 work's better with transports starting on the table. I'm pretty convinced that Land Raiders are generally subpar now, but i guess it depends on meta. I loved them in 6th, but the last 10 games they have underperformed. I have put mine on the shelf for the time being except for more fluffy games.

 

Stormraven is imo currently one of the best units our codex has to offer though it needs some synergi with the rest of the army. In hover mode with jink and ceramite plating it's comparable to the LRR in terms of survivability and in terms of offensive power it is much stronger. 

 

Your pretty screwed if it get's shot down. If your planning on using SR to transport DC i'd take 8+hq's so you can buy a drop pod for them. That way you have the option of dropping them vs lists with alot of anti air + an empty obsec pod is generally always useful even if your not transporting anything. 

[Red-beard]

I loved them in 6th, but the last 10 games they have underperformed.

 

It's been my experience that LRs are better in 7E than they were in 6E. The updated damage table really helps avoid the one-shot explosion. 

[Praefectus Invictus]

1. get a lad raider crusader. more dakka and better transport capacity and longer range is so much better.

2. don't run corbulo with the DC. they already have furious charge and feel no pain, so he is not needed there. if you have him there for the benefits he gives to tycho, instead use tycho as the DC version. not saying dont run corbulo, just find somewhere he can be alot more useful. 

[InquisitorBlack]

I think land raider is definitely superior to a stormraven for troops delivery. Stormraven have good dakka and can already be a priority target. Throw 200 points+ worth of models in there that will die if it gets shot down... Now you have an obvious target that will cripple you if it dies. Storm ravens also aren't garaunteed to come down on turn 2.

 

For DC delivery, I'd go a crusader or a pod. 10 dc with bolters coming down in a pod provide some shooting on the turn they come down and are a huge backfield threat that need to be dealt with for only 235 points (or more if you throw in a fist).

 

Given you want a squad with Corbs and Tycho, go with the Raider. In which case you might as well get a second (or some vindis) to add redundancy.

[Midnightmare]

1. get a lad raider crusader. more dakka and better transport capacity and longer range is so much better.

2. don't run corbulo with the DC. they already have furious charge and feel no pain, so he is not needed there. if you have him there for the benefits he gives to tycho, instead use tycho as the DC version. not saying dont run corbulo, just find somewhere he can be alot more useful.

#2 Corbs makes an excellent tanker in this situation for small arms fire so I could see why he would be used with these guys, though haven't tried it myself. DC Psycho can't join them unfortunately with lack of IC rule - laaaaaame :(

[appiah4]

Go for the LRR.

[Remtek]

 

I loved them in 6th, but the last 10 games they have underperformed.

 

It's been my experience that LRs are better in 7E than they were in 6E. The updated damage table really helps avoid the one-shot explosion. 

 

 

This is of course meta dependant, but AP1/melta/haywire is much more popular in 7th due to new dmg table and lists having Imperial Knight counters which directly affects the LRR due to AV 14 all around and being very expensive it becomes the ideal target for all anti-tank. In my experience opponents are getting twice as many pens now on Land Raiders. Though for AV 13 the new dmg table has helped alot. Vs Tau i love the Land Raider, but for TAC they just die to quick.

 

I still think the LRR will have better synergi with that list, but the Storm Raven is a better unit making it close (Better dmg and better assault positioning, but higher risk). I'd pick whatever appeals to you the most.