Fangbanger Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hey fangs! Trying to build. 1000 point starter list and struggling to fill anti air role It seems a gunship is too expensive at this points range and long fangs offer little longevity So what are the alternatives!? Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Definitely too expensive. Seeing as SW AA is generally crap, I only ever brint make-shift AA.. well, I do that with pretty much every army. With Wolves or SM I have Prescience, which I put on LF, Centurions. I also have a Sicaran tank, which can do it quite well. With Tau I would just use markerlights to pump BS. With Eldar there are Wave Serpents and Guide. You get the idea. Dedicated AA is not worth it most of the time due to costs and lack of flexibility. There are other ways around it with positioning, twin-linked and outnumbering him on the ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I second the Sicaran... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I hear that a Hyperios is a cheap and good way to get AA but have no gaming experience with it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 A very good AA is the Stormwolf 2x Tl- Melta , 1 Tl-Lascannon and Tl-Focused Hellfrost. These are 3 Tl Str 8 ap 1 attacks and 1 TL Str 9 AP2 attack. Good but Reserve (Skyshield?) An Alternative is a Aegis-Defense-Line or Bastion with Icarus Lasc (Range 96 + Interceptor) or Quad-Gun (4x Str 7 Range 46 + Interceptor).They are not cheap but are rialable and give good cover/saves for your LongFangs and the Ancient can access the Weapon so he is not useless and splitfire anable the rest to fire at a different target. I just did the Numbers: Stormwolf with MM 235 5 Longfangs with 4 ML and a Aegis Defense Line with Quadgun (I dont know a Flying A14) cost 235. So they Cost the same. The First is in Reserve and can be bad (You come First and the other flyer destroys you or u dont come on in time) but is very strong in generall. The Second is from the beginning there has bodies and interceptor with 4 TL Str 7 AP4 shot and will only glance AP13 to death but it can take it down before it even does something . The Bad is it can be targeted from the Start,too. The Sicaran with 165 points Minimum (For Skyfire Glory) is a FW A13 Modell with a one off 6xStr 7-Rending-skyfire/interceptor-shot. He is Good and solid for the game in General but the most expensive one (moneywise) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Mortis dread, cheap mobile can be kitted with ML or Las for extra power and gains skyfire if you don't move in the previous turn. Solid choice and still useful if you don't go up against any flyers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT_Cennar Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Aegis Line with Flak. usefull for your units as cover aswell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 The Sicaran with 165 points Minimum (For Skyfire Glory) is a FW A13 Modell with a one off 6xStr 7-Rending-skyfire/interceptor-shot. He is Good and solid for the game in General but the most expensive one (moneywise) Without the skyfire glory rule, the sicaran is still pretty decent at anti-air. As far as im aware the turret is twin linked, so 6x TL S7 rending shots are still going to case 1-2 hits on average, maybe take you a couple turns to take down a flyer, but still not too bad if you are strapped for points. Dont forget the rules for the sicaran also mean it ignores jink saves, which are a massive boost against flyers. Got one on my birthday/xmas wishlist, they just sound too good to not be trying out :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Mortis dread, cheap mobile can be kitted with ML or Las for extra power and gains skyfire if you don't move in the previous turn. Solid choice and still useful if you don't go up against any flyers. Can we actually take a Mortis dread without allies? On a side note, if I'm allying in an Armoured Company (FW rules, I know), is it worth taking a Hydra Flak tank for 75 points? Seems tailored to take down fliers. The Sicaran with 165 points Minimum (For Skyfire Glory) is a FW A13 Modell with a one off 6xStr 7-Rending-skyfire/interceptor-shot. He is Good and solid for the game in General but the most expensive one (moneywise) Without the skyfire glory rule, the sicaran is still pretty decent at anti-air. As far as im aware the turret is twin linked, so 6x TL S7 rending shots are still going to case 1-2 hits on average, maybe take you a couple turns to take down a flyer, but still not too bad if you are strapped for points. Dont forget the rules for the sicaran also mean it ignores jink saves, which are a massive boost against flyers. Got one on my birthday/xmas wishlist, they just sound too good to not be trying out Seconded! It's on my Christmas list too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Can we actually take a Mortis dread without allies?Well you can replace the dreadnought's power fist with a TLAC and you can replace the MM with a TLAC. That looks pretty much like a mortis dread to me. No two lascannons or a missile launchers though. The real Mortis pattern from IA2 2nd Ed. though is Dark Angels only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Blackwood Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I dont know why but im partial to long fangs , mostly because they can shoot other stuff and start the game on the board. I run 4 - 5 of em in most of my list and they cost a bit of points but when they arent shooting at flyers they are shooting at armor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Guys. You are talking about 1k points. All that talk about StormGrrr, kitted out fangs and mortis is too expensive. A naked Sicaran with dozer is what I would take or an allied Stormtalon with Skyhammer. That is it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3854953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatSmasher Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Solutions outside the codex and the rule book aren't that helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Solutions outside the codex and the rule book aren't that helpful. There are no solution in the rule book actually :P If you do not want to play allies or Forge World, that is up to you. But I would not speak for others that casually. They might find it helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
viddar Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I dont know how much I'd worry about anti-air at 1000 pts. Id concentrate more on the strengths of your list and try to play around them. If you know you'll need AA then maybe a dread with two tl autocannons, at a 1000 points are options leave a lot to be desired, and with the nerf to fangs I wouldn't suggest a agesis line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Aegis Line with Flak. usefull for your units as cover aswell. At under 1000 points, Quad Gun with Aegis is indeed the answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 What worked for me once was after a Crimson Hunter arrived from reserves, I moved a nearby Grey Hunters pack on to an objective and revealed the mysterious objective that confers skyfire. Subsequently blew it out of the sky with bolt and plasma guns. Guess that isn't a reliable tactic though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Good thing i got a Sicaran "cheap" . But Still they money wise Cheapest and Fastest solution would Aegis with Flakk like i said above (With LF) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatGrinder Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Quad and Aegis is the way to go, if you don't want it, flakk missiles, while not the best buy, may be your solution. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think the ADL is rubbish since 7th. It is an absolute anathema to the mobility that is required in 7th with its static nature. And it is useless against most ground targets. I would take units that perform well on the ground but can serve as AA. Best examples are grav cents and wave serpents. Serpents ignore cover with their S7 and have twin-linked with 1+D6 shots. Great against ground and can kill air. Grav cents have plenty of shots, and if you prescience them they will hit a flyer. Grav immobilized and forces flyers to take a grounding check. If they fail they crash and burn. Cents can also get skyfire if you use then red hunters chapter tactic. You get the idea. Nothing dedicated but rather multipurpose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 The sicarian is heavy 6 rending, no twinlinkige. But 6 autocannon shots and two laz cannon shots should have 1-2 hits. And tye no jink from the autocannon shots is quite nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Sicaran is twinlinked im pretty sure Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 The sicarian is heavy 6 rending, no twinlinkige. But 6 autocannon shots and two laz cannon shots should have 1-2 hits. And tye no jink from the autocannon shots is quite nice. Sicaran is twin-linked. LC is a waste for 40 points. You want it cheap. 135 is cheap. 175 is not. 135 for 6 rending TLAC shots that ignore jink on a 13/12/12 (check the FAQ) 4HP fast tank is a bargain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hmmm. I guess I need to reread the fw books I have. And I would beg to differ on the laz cannons. 40 points is roughly on average for two laz cannons. And for me, the sicarian needs those ext tee a shots to tear up those peaky high armor enemies in heavy cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I think the ADL is rubbish since 7th. It is an absolute anathema to the mobility that is required in 7th with its static nature. And it is useless against most ground targets. I would take units that perform well on the ground but can serve as AA. Best examples are grav cents and wave serpents. Serpents ignore cover with their S7 and have twin-linked with 1+D6 shots. Great against ground and can kill air. Grav cents have plenty of shots, and if you prescience them they will hit a flyer. Grav immobilized and forces flyers to take a grounding check. If they fail they crash and burn. Cents can also get skyfire if you use then red hunters chapter tactic. You get the idea. Nothing dedicated but rather multipurpose. If you give them the chapter tactic they gain Skyfire. But then they only hit ground targets on a 6. Can you turn on a tactic only for a turn? Otherwise, you're just making another specialist AA unit. Granted a very very powerful one. As far as the LC sponsons on the Sicaran, it depends on if you want a true multipurpose tank or a cheap, effective one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/#findComment-3855315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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