Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 If you use Sicaran to kill high AV targets in cover, then you are using it wrong. Sicaran is garbage to kill high AV and Lascannons are garbage in general. Sicaran is there to tackle skimmers and flyers. High AV need to be killed by IP, drop meltas and grav allies and Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 I would prefer to keep it pure wolf for now I think but this has definitely thrown up some interesting ideas. Long fangs work out quite expensive. But they could quite happily hunker down providing support from the back field as well as AA. 2 x las and 2 x flack maybe? Failing that to keep things cheap maybe a razor back with Lascanons? I know it's not anti air but it can provide other rolls and if it hits an airborne target, it's going to do the damage I want to build a list around TWC so that's already going to be big points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Not if you run naked TWC. Flakk missiles are bad. Single :cuss with S7 AP4 is not worth the points of admission. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Flakk missiles are too high a point cost imho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 tbh if you are going to be playing 1000 point games on a regular basis. Don't bother fighting a fight you cannot win. If you oppenant wants air dominance let him have it. You focus on dominating the ground war. Your best bet is either have ground units that can soak the threat from the air ( TWC ) and if you have units that cannot soak the threat increase there survivability by either transporting them (rhino's) or sticking objectives in something like ruins which provides a 4+cover save regardless of the 25% being covered rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Dat 3++ tho.... Oh...and at least one fist! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Trust me, your TWC will die because they failed armour saves, not invul saves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Besides, if your units do what they're supposed to do and get into CC, what's the flier going to shoot at? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Also, look at it this may. TWC will cross the field by T2. Flyers need to move at least 18" or go hover mode. When they are restricted in their movement, they will not catch fast units like TWC. If they do hover, they will die to melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Well this is all great stuff for a new wolf player...thanks guys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 /flex That is what we do! :D *looks at his Eldar army* ... *goes back into his kennel* :( :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 And the Tau one... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Nah, selling that one. I am tired of gun metal grey and machines. I notice that I was stuck with that theme for far too long and that it isn't something I like. It is too grim and dark. You know what I like? High fantasy. Colours. D&D. A human with sword and board, an elven mage and an axe wielding dwarf punching orks and riding/slaying dragons. This is why I started Eldar. They are as high fantasy as you can get. I am not sure how I want to proceed but I will probably poop on any established fluff, say an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor group and an Eldar world magically grew some common sense and banded together to create the highest of high fantasy and to have some fun. Life is grim enough to have even more grimness on you table. I want wobbly majicks and colours. Anyway, too far off topic :D Open another thread or pm me if you want me to continue with my rant xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I like it. But in the grim darkness of the future... there is Eldar D&D. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 New catch phrase. In the grim darkness of the grim dark future there is only... D&D. It cuts to a Squat, Human and Eldar off-duty rolling D20 to kill that damn Bloodthirster :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Need an Ork in there! Can't have D&D without Orks! Not if you run naked TWC. Flakk missiles are bad. Single with S7 AP4 is not worth the points of admission. You need to model naked TWC... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 He's late for the party. Forgot his Kustom Supa D18.5 dice of Ekstreme Randomness and +5 on chick magnet :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 I would prefer to keep it pure wolf for now I think but this has definitely thrown up some interesting ideas. Long fangs work out quite expensive. But they could quite happily hunker down providing support from the back field as well as AA. 2 x las and 2 x flack maybe? Failing that to keep things cheap maybe a razor back with Lascanons? I know it's not anti air but it can provide other rolls and if it hits an airborne target, it's going to do the damage I want to build a list around TWC so that's already going to be big points If you want to keep it pure wolf, consider that the Space Wolves Legion used the tanks during the Great Crusades and the Horus Heresy. :p Another option, though not cheap in any way, is the Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought. Its Av 13-12-11, 5+/6+ invulnerable and Gains Skyfire/Interceptor if it hasn't moved the same turn it shoots. With the Option for 2 Kheres Assault Cannons which are 6 rending shots each, that a lot of Dakka. You also get 2 TL Lascannons or 2 TL Autocannons. It is, however base 155 points. The fact that it has integrated Skyfire/Interceptor means that you don't have to use the CT for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can we actually take a Mortis dread without allies?Well you can replace the dreadnought's power fist with a TLAC and you can replace the MM with a TLAC. That looks pretty much like a mortis dread to me. No two lascannons or a missile launchers though. The real Mortis pattern from IA2 2nd Ed. though is Dark Angels only. I may have misunderstood this but from listening to the frontline gaming podcast a few weeks back Reecius said that every chapter can take 1 mortis pattern dread. However, DA can take multiple. If true then 105pts for a dual TL-ML dread that when it stands still gets skyfire and interceptors is fantastic hybrid AA for its price. The upgrade to TL-LCs make it even better too. I'll do some more reading around and try and find out if this extends to space wolves, or if it is just for the other marine chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Can we actually take a Mortis dread without allies?Well you can replace the dreadnought's power fist with a TLAC and you can replace the MM with a TLAC. That looks pretty much like a mortis dread to me. No two lascannons or a missile launchers though. The real Mortis pattern from IA2 2nd Ed. though is Dark Angels only. I may have misunderstood this but from listening to the frontline gaming podcast a few weeks back Reecius said that every chapter can take 1 mortis pattern dread. However, DA can take multiple. If true then 105pts for a dual TL-ML dread that when it stands still gets skyfire and interceptors is fantastic hybrid AA for its price. The upgrade to TL-LCs make it even better too. I'll do some more reading around and try and find out if this extends to space wolves, or if it is just for the other marine chapters. Stick with dual AC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Neither in the normal book nor in the Errata its said a SW can take a Mortis pattern, be it regular or compentor. Some care to explain how we can take one then (no allies) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 We can not. We can only take a Contemptor as per Apoc13 book. Mortis and Contemptor Mortis are SM and DA exclusive IIRC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 fair dos. Big shame since it it much better than the twin auto cannon model we have available since it can gain skyfire and interceptor and much better anti AA weapons (e.g. 115pts for us with the str 7 shots that only snap and 105pts for the str 8 shots that skyfire). It would have been a no brainer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisWolf Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Yep. For some reason, our chapter, which it is said is the master of the orbital drop pod assault, doesn't really know how to look up and shoot at things flying above us well. Stupid GW... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I guess that is just a part of the stupidity of changing the skyfire and interceptor rules from 6th to 7th edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/298931-aa-at-low-points/page/2/#findComment-3855926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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