Transports clarification

[Submarine]

Hi, I am just getting into 40K and noticed a contradiction in the rules. If this has already been clarified elsewhere then apologies but I couldnt find it.

 

In the rulebook it states that infantry can embark on a dedicated transport as per the normal rules for number of models and bulky etc. At the end of that section it says that sometimes there are limitations placed on which types of unit can embark on the transport and this will be stated in the units own description. It gives the example of terminators that cannot embark on a rhino or razorback but can be carried in a land raider.

 

This is not the rules section on dedicated transports by the way, that is a little later on.

 

This implies to me that if, in the unit entry, you don't have the option to buy a dedicated transport for that unit, then it means you can't embark on that transport. 

 

On that basis I cannot find a single unit in the space marine codex that has the option in their unit entry of choosing a stormraven as a dedicated transport. Now I know that means that they cant buy it and get it without taking a force organisation slot. But it also means that no unit is allowed to embark on it based on the original rule that I mentioned.

 

Or to put it another way, how do I know which units can embark on a stormraven, is it all infantry units? If that is true, then the same could be said of a rhino or razorback. But the rules say that only those units that specifically say they can take it as a transport, can embark on it. 

 

Can you see the contradiction I mention?

[Grotsmasha]

Without having the Rulebook in front of me, my interpretation is that any embarkation limitations will be in the units entry, meaning if a infantry unit doesn't have any limitations it can embark normally.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Submarine]

thanks for that. problem is that all the infantry units have specified dedicated transports. A good example is a dreadnought. It specifies in the dreadnought unit that it can take a drop pod as a dedicated transport. Now according to the rules, that means that the dreadnought can only be embarked on a drop and no other transport. Whereas the stormraven rules specifically say that it can carry a dreadnought. Which is right?

[Grotsmasha]

So I just dug out my Rulebook and Codex, and standby my statement of "If there is no limitation in the Codex entry, there is no limitation to the unit"

 

Both are correct,

 

Now according to the rules, that means that the dreadnought can only be embarked on a drop and no other transport.

This assumption is where you've gone wrong, as clearly stated by yourself,

 

... the stormraven rules specifically say that it can carry a dreadnought.

 

Dedicated Transports are Transports for the purchasing unit, and can only transport that unit, and take up no Force Organisation slot.

A unit purchased separately (Landraider, Stormraven etc) that has Transport capacity can be used to transport other units.

 

e.g. 

A Command Squads (Dedicated Transport) Rhino is destroyed, you fly in your Stormraven (Fast Attack) and pick them up, they Embark following the Embarkation rules outlined in the Rulebook as if it was their Dedicated Transport.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Dam13n]

Also the dedicated transport restriction on who can embark in it only applies during deployment. After that any unit can embark any transport that is capable of holding them (subject to any restrictions listed in the transport's rules).

[Submarine]

Ok, thats what i believed to be true as well. However, I quote in the transports section of the rulebook. This is not the section on dedicated transports, this is the section on transport capacity.

 

"Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A

Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent

Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models

equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the

Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across

multiple Transports.

Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet

Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as

more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in

the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can

embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space

Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although

they can be transported by a Land Raider."

 

It is the last bit in bold that is key. It doesn't talk about deployment or anything else. It simply states that because in the units entry it states what they can embark on, the terminators cannot embark on a rhino or razorback. This is nothing to do with deployment or dedicated transports which features later on in the rules. Based on this paragraph, a tactical squad cannot be transported in a land raider, for example. 

 

I am sure you are right and thats how I intend to play it, but can you see from this quote from the rulebook, that a contradiction exists.

[Grotsmasha]

Again, that bold bit says ANY CONSTRAINTS will be listed in a units entry, not all usable transport will be listed. If there is NO CONSTRAINTS listed in a units entry then they aren't restricted to a particular transport type.

 

Cheers,

Jono

[Axagoras]

And remember that if a vehicle isn't bought as a dedicated transport anyone can start in it.

[Dam13n]

I think that part of the issue here may be a confusion between "Transports" and "Dedicated Transports".

 

- A dedicated transport can only embark the unit it was purchased with during deployment (*).

- A non-dedicated transport can embark any unit at any time subject to that transports individual transport rules (ie no Bulky models may embark in a Rhino).

- Any unit may embark in any transport from turn 1 onwards subject to that transports individual transport rules.

 

The paragraph you highlighted in no way tells us that a Tactical Squad cannot embark into a Land Raider.  The Land Raider has no constraints in it's individual transport rules.  If the Land Raider is purchased as the Dedicated Transport of a Terminator squad then the only constraint levied is that only that Terminator Squad (*) may begin the game embarked in it (however any unit may embark upon it later, so long as no other unit is actually embarked in it at the time).

 

* Along with any Independent Character that may join that unit, and meet the individual transport rules of the Dedicated Transport.

[Submarine]

I think that part of the issue here may be a confusion between "Transports" and "Dedicated Transports".

 

- A dedicated transport can only embark the unit it was purchased with during deployment (*).

- A non-dedicated transport can embark any unit at any time subject to that transports individual transport rules (ie no Bulky models may embark in a Rhino).

- Any unit may embark in any transport from turn 1 onwards subject to that transports individual transport rules.

 

The paragraph you highlighted in no way tells us that a Tactical Squad cannot embark into a Land Raider.  The Land Raider has no constraints in it's individual transport rules.  If the Land Raider is purchased as the Dedicated Transport of a Terminator squad then the only constraint levied is that only that Terminator Squad (*) may begin the game embarked in it (however any unit may embark upon it later, so long as no other unit is actually embarked in it at the time).

 

* Along with any Independent Character that may join that unit, and meet the individual transport rules of the Dedicated Transport.

Where is the second statement written, I couldn't find it in the rules. Can you explain why the rules say that a terminator unit cannot embark a rhino?

[Quixus]

It's in the rules for TDA. For example

Terminators count as two models for the purposes of transport capacity, and cannot embark Rhinos or Razorbacks.

[Submarine]

Thanks. That's very helpful. Terminators don't have that rule though in the new space marine codex. So why wouldn't they be able to board a rhino?

[Quixus]

The Rhinos and Razorbacks in C:SM cannot carry units with the bulky or very bulky special rules. SM TDA is bulky.

[Submarine]

Ah yes. You're right. Thanks so much. I'm new to the game and some of the rules are dotted in different places. I found out the terminators are bulky because it's under the terminator armour rules rather than the terminators themselves! Appreciate the patience everyone is showing!

[markham82]

A practical example to show that tacticals can ride in a land raider, is that crusader squads can take a land raider crusader as a dedicated transport.

[Acebaur]

 

I think that part of the issue here may be a confusion between "Transports" and "Dedicated Transports".

 

- A dedicated transport can only embark the unit it was purchased with during deployment (*).

- A non-dedicated transport can embark any unit at any time subject to that transports individual transport rules (ie no Bulky models may embark in a Rhino).

- Any unit may embark in any transport from turn 1 onwards subject to that transports individual transport rules.

 

The paragraph you highlighted in no way tells us that a Tactical Squad cannot embark into a Land Raider.  The Land Raider has no constraints in it's individual transport rules.  If the Land Raider is purchased as the Dedicated Transport of a Terminator squad then the only constraint levied is that only that Terminator Squad (*) may begin the game embarked in it (however any unit may embark upon it later, so long as no other unit is actually embarked in it at the time).

 

* Along with any Independent Character that may join that unit, and meet the individual transport rules of the Dedicated Transport.

Where is the second statement written, I couldn't find it in the rules. Can you explain why the rules say that a terminator unit cannot embark a rhino?

 

 

I think part of your problem is you are thinking that if a transport is listed as a dedicated transport for that unit it can't ride in anything else. It being an option for dedicated simple means that you can buy a transport outside of the FOC for that unit. That unit isn't restricted to ride only in that transport. I can ride anywhere it is allowed by the rules in under the transport itself. In some cases buying a dedicated unit is the only way to access that unit in a battleforged army, like Rhino's Razorbakcs or Drop Pods(except for SW, but that's a different story)