Necron list. Supposed to be very nasty. What to take?

[spla5hmummy]

So my very experienced buddy has created the nastiest necron list he can come up with for fun and in the spirit of fun I said we should play a game with it. I don't mind losing and I certainly don't have his level of skill but he likes to be challenged so I need to come up with something that won't die in turn two.

The list is this:

+++ 2k necrons (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Necrons: Codex (2011), Necrons: Codex (2011) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment, Combined Arms Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Necrons: Codex (2011) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (160pts)

    * Destroyer Lord
        (Ever-Living, Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Everything!), Reanimation Protocols)
        Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave, Warscythe

+ Troops +

    * Necron Warriors
        * 5x Necron Warrior
            (Reanimation Protocols)
            5x Gauss Flayer
        * Night Scythe
            (Invasion Beams, Living Metal, Supersonic)
            Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Necron Warriors
        * 5x Necron Warrior
            (Reanimation Protocols)
            5x Gauss Flayer
        * Night Scythe
            (Invasion Beams, Living Metal, Supersonic)
            Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

+ Fast Attack +

    * Canoptek Wraiths
        Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight), Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight), Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)

    * Canoptek Wraiths
        Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight), Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight), Canoptek Wraith (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)
        * Canoptek Wraith
            (Fearless, Phase Attacks, Wraith Flight)
            Whip Coils (*)

+ Heavy Support +

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

Necrons: Codex (2011) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

    * Destroyer Lord
        (Ever-Living, Independent Character, Preferred Enemy (Everything!), Reanimation Protocols)
        Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave, Warscythe

+ Troops +

    * Necron Warriors
        * 5x Necron Warrior
            (Reanimation Protocols)
            5x Gauss Flayer
        * Night Scythe

            (Invasion Beams, Living Metal, Supersonic)
            Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Necron Warriors
        * 5x Necron Warrior
            (Reanimation Protocols)
            5x Gauss Flayer
        * Night Scythe
            (Invasion Beams, Living Metal, Supersonic)
            Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

+ Heavy Support +

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked Tesla Destructor (Arc)

    * Annihilation Barge
        (Living Metal, Quantum Shielding)
        Tesla Cannon, Twin-Linked

I've put together a list, but don't want to give too much to chew on right now. In short, I've taken a fair bit of las for penning the barges, autocannons for killing them once penned and for shooting wraiths, three storm talons, two tactical squads and grav cents with librarian. I use iron hands tactics.

Any thoughts?

[markham82]

You're going to need more flyers, if I remember correctly night scythes have armour 12. On top of everything he won't be afraid to jink because he's looking for 6's to hit anyway( 6's create extra hits)

 

Perhaps a few units of Lotd to deal with his barges. Normally necrons put their barges at their table edge and the wraiths want to move towards you so the the barges should be unsupported. If this is your opponents plan the lotd could make him rethink that or at least make him drop his warriors in his own deployment instead of yours. As a matter of fact I would take a few droppods filled with melta marines of your choice to try and get him to jink turn 1.

 

You want lots of S8 shots to instagib the wraiths or th/ss termies waiting at your line. I'm thinking landraider with the termies inside accompanied by a squadron of speeder typhoons.

 

Landraiders should give his list a problem. Only the warscythe can pen it so put in a techmarine to keep it alive 

 

Tell the eldar theres a big orgy and when they show and see the necron they'll throw themselves at them making your life easier.

 

Good luck

[Stickeh]

Night scythes (and doom scythes for that matter) are 11 all round, and it's a very good list - plenty of AV13 annihilation barges with tesla destructors and night scythes with min warrior squads for objective grabs.

 

The list has two weaknesses; low amount of obsec bodies and largely ineffective against AV14. He only has 20 warriors for troops (although flying around in night scythes they're fairly safe) and the onlyy things that can harm AV14 are the two DLords, the gauss flayers on the Warriors and the rending CC attacks from the wraiths. Therefore - Land Raider it up.

 

As an IH player you should have plenty of armour, and only AV13 and up is going to be any use here, even then the huge amount of tesla destructors he's fielding are gonna glance your AV13 to death fairly quickly. I'm not sure the talons are a great idea, outside of a decent amount of coordination for taking down the quantum shielding on the barges, they're going to be easy pickings for the twin linked destructors.

[spla5hmummy]

I sometimes use a FW IG armoured group as allies. Basically three Leman russes. They're av14 aren't they? Not sure the battle cannons would be effective here though.

 

The talons are my only hope of taking out 4 flyers. Any better ideas for that? I don't have a stalker.

[Stickeh]

Leman russes are AV14 front armour only, which is handy provided you can keep the opponent at arms length. Everything in your opponents arsenal is 24" range, with only the night scythes having the mobility to significantly impact that.

 

Battle cannons are pretty good vs wraiths, every failed 3++ is a dead wraith, but he'll likely have the 2+ DLords at the front of each unit to soak any AP3 shooting. Consider a paskisher, executioner or demolisher instead of the standard LRBT. If you're allowing FW consider using a Contemptor Mortis dread for your anti air; an AV13 dread with 5++ that gains skyfire if it stands still the preceding turn. A pair of Kheres assault cannons with the cyclone missile launcher is an expensive unit, and given the amount of S7 your opponent is fielding you'll have to offer up some juicy alternative targets or play a clever target denial game, but it'll destroy scythes with contemptuous (excuse the pun) ease and put a fair amount of wounds on wraith units through volume of fire and rending if none of the scythes are on the table.

 

Worth noting that the DLords don't have access to an Inv save, although the wraiths do. Lascannon shots would be a great way to force your opponent to make some tough decisions - take the AP2 on the DLord or risk losing a 2W wraith to each shot. If you're taking an IG CAD, a 30-40 man blabbed platoon with attached divination Psyker (take your pick, IG have cheap ones) and Lascannons HWT's should score a few wounds per turn and the right attached character can turn the unit into a fairly good anvil. Necrons can't really offer up any resistance in the psychic phase barring the occasional lucky dispel so it's safe to assume at least prescience will go off with a modicum of reliability.

[Ishagu]

Run 3 Talons, Aegis Line with Quad, Grav Centurions

[Prot]

Run 3 Talons, Aegis Line with Quad, Grav Centurions

 

Normally I really like your ideas, but I have to kindly disagree with this one.

 

I play necrons and backed off of flyer heavy lists because there's really only one thing that threatens them... this may come as a surprise but it's those bloody Flying Hive Tyrants with Devourers. Sickeningly effective against all aircraft.

 

Normal air wing doesn't bother me and you really can't win the air game against most cron lists. The Anni Barge + the Flyers will all Jink like crazy and still hit the throne out of you next turn.

 

I would give up on air entirely unless you want to take AV12 but 11 is just too bloody easy for them.

 

That list is nasty but it's like all necron lists... extremely specialized. That is to say that even if you take the right tools to the game, it will be in your use of them that gives you a chance. IE: assault the shooty stuff, shoot the assaulty stuff. Mass crappy firepower on Wraiths is key. Just get him rolling dice, but don't waste a single lascannon, plasma gun, nor meltagun on them. Just lots of crap.

 

Assault those barges. The number one limiting factor of Necrons is range. Deadly at 24". Use your range on those units first, ignore the wraiths until you can throw massed junk at them. 

 

It's a tough fight for sure. MSS are still nasty in 7th, and if you get into it with the Wraiths on their terms it might be game over. 

 

Make sure to annihilate a unit at a time (not counting wraiths) to rob him of the re-animation protocols (I know it kills me when people do it to me.)

 

As far as loyalist units to use, I'm sure other people can give you much better advice than me, but I still think the secret sauce is in looking for the missmatches on those specialist Necron units. 

 

Also, look for the Pen on the Barges, then anything goes through. The Necron vehicles are so ironic that way in where you will have a lot of problems penn'ing, but if you get a pen, they blow fast because the av is down to 11.

 

Good luck!

[Axagoras]

well, if i had to fight this I would run something like this...

Iron hands, and Clan raukaan 2k

Iron hands CAD

Chapter master on a bike with shield eternal, artificers armor, thunder hammer-250

 

Master of the forge with a combi grav and a bike-120

 

5 tactical marine squads with melta gun and combi melta in a rhino-125

 

8 space marine bikes with combi grav and 2 grav guns-210

 

3x sicarin battle tanks (two with lascannons and one with the mars and another with sarosh legacies  of glory from IA2v2)-540

 

 

Clan raukaan CAD
 

Master of the forge with a combi grav-100

2x 5 tactical marine squads with melta gun and combi melta in a rhino-125(250)

 

3x sicarin battle tanks-135(405)

So yea... there ya go, a smashkill and some guys to ride with him, 3 rhino squads of marines, and 3 of the deadliest marine battle tanks to see the light of day. PRAISE THE OMNISSIAH

[markham82]

How about

 

Iron Hands

 

Hq

 

master of the forge

 

Troop

 

2 5 man tacs in t/linked lascannons razorbacks

 

elites

 

5 ss/th termies in redeemer( dozer blade&multimelta)

 

2 contemptor mortis dreads(assault cannon & missiles)

 

Fast attack

 

2 skyhammer talons

 

1 lascannon talon

 

Heavy support

 

2 annihilator preds(las)

 

Hang back and shoot the wraiths and lords first after that I think he'll be in trouble.

[GreyCrow]

In terms of tactics, the way I see it is that he has a very aggressive army and will probably work that way :

- Destroyer lords with the Wraiths, throwing both at you as a distraction and making sure they're your priority targets

- Barges providing nasty supporting fire

- Scythes dropping Necron Warriors to capture and reinforce objectives in the end

Hanging back might not be the most effective tactic, because he'll expect that. On the other hand, having a fast moving army that will force him to alter his attack pattern might gain you a turn or two before the assaults.

In terms of analysis, his list has great firepower but is mainly composed of elite models and a relatively low model count. More importantly, the barges have one great weakness : it's that they have hull mounted weapons, and Immobilized results really kill their efficiency if you are able to reposition.

I feel he will also have trouble dealing with A13-14 vehicles, especially if they're in cover.

What I would have would be a healthy amount of lascannons to hope to destroy either the Barges as well as the Wraiths thanks to Instant Death, as well as a healthy amount of fast moving meltas either in Landspeeders or attack bikes. I could definitely see 2 TriLas Predators stuck in cover working there !

In addition, I would also have a Terminator Assault Squad either with Thunder Hammers or Lightning Claws stuck in a Land Raider with Lascannons as a defending unit to counter attack the Wraiths. Use smart positionning to charge them where the models with Whip Coils will have less models in base contact.

Regarding the HQ, I would have 2 : one beatstick on bikes and a Chaplain in Terminator armour, Hatred+Shred on the Claws is awesome as well as Hatred+Thunder Hammers !

Next, I would most definitely have a squad of Devastator Centurions with Grav Cannons and omniscope, just for the ability to put so many AP2 shots wounding on 3+. In addition, getting just a single immobilized result on an Annihiliation Barge will cripple their efficiency by severely limiting what they can fire at, and the Omniscope will allow you to fire at two of them, potentially immobilizing more than one a turn (quite honestly, you'll immobilize more than one a turn on average).

Next, a simple biker squadron with 2 Grav Guns to accompany you beatstick Captain/Chapter Master, that way you'll be able to immobilize the barges more.

I don't think going with bikes as Troops choices would be that great, because the Barges' firepower will wound them on 2+ anyways. Rather, Tactical squads in Rhinos plopped in cover ready to pounce and wipe out the Necron Warriors would be awesome and cheaper I'd recommend a healthy amount of Tacticals as well, around 4 squads and I think you can fit them in 2000 points with all of the above.

I'm not sure I'd recommend any flier either, because Barges and Nightscythes love snap shooting with their twin linked weapons : any snap shot they make yield 2 additional auto hits, so they care a lot less that they're jinking or shooting at fliers. I'd rather up your body count with 40 Tactical Marines that will provide you with lots of staying power, immobilize his Barges and aim to instakill the Wraiths.

To quote Sun Tzu (I'm sure Guilliman plagiarized some of his works when writing the Codex Astartes) : First, you have to make yourself immune to defeat, then you must exploit an error the enemy has made. I'm not sure my suggestions achieve that, but I think that's a great advice to keep in mind when tactically positionning your models on the board.

[spla5hmummy]

I don't have a lot of the units you guys have suggested, but how about this?

+++ anti necron (1985pts) +++

+++ 2000pt Space Marines: Supplement - Clan Raukaan (2013), Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) Roster (Combined Arms Detachment, Combined Arms Detachment)) +++

 

Selections:

 

Space Marines: Supplement - Clan Raukaan (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

 

+ No Force Org Slot + (150pts)

 

* Techmarine (75pts) (Codex: Space Marines p92)

* Servo-harness (25pts)

Flamer, Plasma Cutter, 2x Servo-arm

 

 

* Techmarine (75pts) (Codex: Space Marines p92)

* Servo-harness (25pts)

Flamer, Plasma Cutter, 2x Servo-arm

 

 

+ HQ + (160pts)

 

* Librarian (70pts) (Codex: Space Marines p80)

Auspex (5pts), Codicier (Psyker Mastery Level 1), Force Sword, HQ, Psychic Hood

* Power Armour

Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

 

 

* Master of the Forge (90pts) (Codex: Space Marines p92)

Warlord (*)

* Servo-harness

Flamer, Plasma Cutter, 2x Servo-arm

 

 

+ Elites + (465pts)

 

* Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought (FW) (200pts) (Imperial Armour II 2nd Ed p179)

2x Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon (25pts), Atomantic Shielding, Helical Targeting Array, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

 

 

* Dreadnought (120pts) (Codex: Space Marines p91)

Dreadnought, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Autocannon (5pts), Twin-Linked Autocannon (15pts)

 

 

* Mark V Mortis Pattern Dreadnought (FW) (145pts) (Imperial Armour II 2nd Ed p171)

2x Twin-Linked Lascannon (30pts), Helical Targeting Array, Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

 

 

+ Troops + (150pts)

 

* Tactical Squad (80pts) (Codex: Space Marines )

* Sergeant

Bolter, Chainsword, Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades

* 3x Space Marine (42pts)

3x Bolt Pistol, 3x Bolter, 3x Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades

* Space Marine w/ Heavy Bolter (24pts)

Bolt Pistol, Heavy Bolter, Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades

 

 

* Tactical Squad (70pts) (Codex: Space Marines )

* Sergeant

Bolter, Chainsword, Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades

* 4x Space Marine (56pts)

4x Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolter, 4x Power Armour, Frag & Krak Grenades

 

 

+ Heavy Support + (960pts)

 

* Centurion Devastator Squad (540pts) (Codex: Space Marines p94)

* 2x Centurion (180pts)

2x Centurion Warsuit, 2x Grav-cannon with Grav-amp (40pts), 2x Missile Launcher (20pts)

* Centurion Sergeant (40pts)

Centurion Warsuit, Grav-cannon with Grav-amp (20pts), Missile Launcher (10pts), Omniscope (10pts) (Night Vision, Split Fire)

* Land Raider (250pts) (Codex: Space Marines p103)

(Assault Vehicle, Power of the Machine Spirit)

Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter, 2x Twin-Linked Lascannon

 

 

* Land Raider Helios (FW) (280pts) (Imperial Armour II 2nd Ed p56)

Hyperios Air Defence Missile Launcher (20pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, 2x Sponson-mounted Twin-linked Lascannons

 

 

* Predator (140pts) (Codex: Space Marines p101)

2x Lascannons (40pts), Searchlight, Smoke Launchers, Twin-linked Lascannon (25pts)

 

 

Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) Selections:

 

+ Fortification + (100pts)

 

* Aegis Defense Line (100pts) (Stronghold Assault p0)

Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun (50pts)

 

 

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Kilofix]

Just a quick reminder - remember that Skyfire (like Quad, Stalker, Hunter, etc.) can hit Skimmers at full BS.

 

Not sure about SM, but for AM, I'd just give the Unit manning the Quad the 'Ignores Cover' Orders.

[Ishagu]

Necrons are not particularly strong, though their outdated codex gives them some strange advantages that don't fit with the way the game is played.

 

Quantum shields were great in 5th, but that was before jink. Av13 on a cheap jinking platform doesn't really fit into 40k currently.

 

Twin Linked Tesla weapons on average score as many hits when a vehicle has jinked as when it hasn't. Necron flyers and barges are not currently penalised for jinking.

 

Looking at the buff vehicles have received, and how anti vehicle cheap units are becoming rare (DE Wyches all lost haywire for example) it's crazy to have basic cheap troops that can glance Knight Titans and Landraiders to death.

 

Mindshackle Scarabs are broken. A 350 point deamon prince (ld9) will almost always fail a leadership roll on 3d6 and kill himself after a challenge from a cheap Necron Lord a third of his points. Basically Mindshackle Scarabs are an overpowered hard counter to expensive character Monstrous creatures that have no choice but to accept a challenge. Within the current rules this is broken.

 

Next codex we can all be sure that most if not all of these things will be addressed or changed. Necrons need to be brought into line with the rest of 40k codecies.

[Axagoras]

well I did trash 2 necron players in the final 2 rounds of a tournament i went to, but they were really tough fights, and one went down to the wire while the other one ended badly for the necron player after i seized, and he lost both D lords in 1 round of combat (careful positioning and challenging let me only take 1 mindshackle test on a chapter master, who passed and then the 2 ruined them) and they didnt come back. I was able to deal with the barges by assaulting them with my scouts and such, but it was a tough fight.

[markham82]

Theres a nice Ultramarine vs Necron batrep on striking scorpion for some inspiration.

[Sheesh Mode]

Drive your landraiders down his spooky metal face.

[Gideon999]

I am surprised (or maybe skimming too fast to see when someone did this) nobody recommended drop pods!

 

5 barges is nasty, but it is basically a gun line.   Sure its a skimmer gunline, but he still doesnt want you going near them.   Try grav cents in allied SW drop pod with an allied rune priest in the pod for prescience.   That squad will more than likely kill or immobilize 2 barges the turn it drops and force him to divert a substantial amount of firepower to kill them.   (you will need to ensure that you drop so that you gain cover from the barges you kill though to make sure the other barges dont just instagib you).

 

But that squad, with another MSU of 5 marines with melta and combimelta will likely put enough pressure on the barges to either deal with them or at least remove their support to his wraiths.   

 

As far as the wraiths, massed fire can torrent them down but the humble missile launcher is awesome against them.   Devastators with missiles or lascannons, typhoon speeders and maybe even grav bikers (though these would have to get VERY close to work) can all kill wraiths pretty well.

 

The scythes are really the least of your problems.   They, alone, will struggle to kill enough marines to shift you off objectives, and his MSU warriors are actually pretty easy to kill as well since with so few bodies they will die fast enough that they cant get back up. 

 

The real wildcard is the lord of course as he WILL eat anything he likes.

[Axagoras]

so your feeding him marines, d lords love marines

[Gideon999]

Oh yes, they do at that.   Especially destroyer versions who like to move fast.     Still, against an army like this I find that some casualties are going to be needed to keep them occupied while you dismantle the other threats.   The lords can eat lots of marines, but they can eat anything else as well.   Tough situation to be sure, and of course YMMV.