Vorenus Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 If y'all haven't read the rules for the Blood Slaughterer's Impaler upgrade in the IA13 rulebook, I highly recommend a thorough read. I've read through that section about a dozen times, and re-read the Deep Strike and assault rules, and the conclusion I keep coming to is that there is now a unit in the game that can assault out of Deep Strike. Combine this with a Chaos Lord equipped with the Dimensional Key to get a more reliable Deep Strike landing and you have a golden combination for really upsetting an opponent's carefully laid plans (i.e., assaulting an artillery piece in their backfield). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaanbull Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 That does sound interesting. Can you talk a bit about how the rules interact, to include the un-initiated? :)I still can't see the dimensional key working, a turn two assault, after most of your deepstrikers have arrived already..Is it possible to assault in the second player turn? First game turn, going second and getting off a charge, which chaos lord can cross the gap the fastest? I've speculated in a dimensional key wielding Slaanesh lord on steed to unlock troops and getting off a charge to activate the artifact before he's smeared across the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Mmm interesting. It maybe better to use Karanak and Blood Crushers for Scout + 12" move + run and bounce the Blood Slaughterer off the Icon. Then again If you used a group of Seekers of Slaanesh to Outflank/Acute Senses + run you might be in a better location with only a D6" scatter That does sound interesting. Can you talk a bit about how the rules interact, to include the un-initiated? I still can't see the dimensional key working, a turn two assault, after most of your deepstrikers have arrived already..Is it possible to assault in the second player turn? First game turn, going second and getting off a charge, which chaos lord can cross the gap the fastest? I've speculated in a dimensional key wielding Slaanesh lord on steed to unlock troops and getting off a charge to activate the artifact before he's smeared across the floor. Off the top of my head the Impaler is 12" shooting attack that hits on a 4+ and drags the target at the Blood Slaughterer. I can't remember if its got a random rolled drag distance but if the target makes it into base contact with the BS, the BS counts as charging with a host of rules, I think Rampage, Rage (or +D3 or +3) and Furious Charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Unless the rules specifically say you can assault after arriving from reserves/deep strike then sadly, you are not permitted to do so. Also, it sounds like the Impaler works like the Blood Angels' Furioso Dreadnought's Magna Grapple. Even with the maximum roll, when this drags a vehicle toward the Dreadnought it stops 1" away as you can only enter base to base contact via a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Even if it's specifically about bring something into base to base? It's more about not being able to charge after DS isn't it? I tend to think this could work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I think Vorenus is right... On the Dice Abide, Adam B writes about the BLood Slaughterer: An old Forgeworld mini, but kind of an interesting choice. They have the old rules for rage, meaning they must move towards and charge the nearest enemy unit, which can be very problematic, but with Rampage and +D3 attacks the turn you charge, anything that these guys do make it into, is pretty well screwed. If you do take them, I think that the Impaler upgrade is damn near mandatory. It gives you a 12″ range krak missile that hits on a 4+, but if it causes a penetrating hit on a vehicle, or unsaved wound on a monstrous creature, it is immediately dragged 2D6″ towards your unit, and if you drag it into base-to-base, you count as having charged it. By deep striking a unit of 3 of these, you could potentially pull a unit 6D6″ into combat with you, effectively giving you a charge the turn you land. Again, not a super competitive unit, but could be fun to mix things up. The rules for the BS say: Using the Impaler counts as a shooting ttack, which hits on 4+. If the harpoon strikes a succesful Penetrating hit against a vehicle, or an unsaved wounding hit against a Monstrous Creature which survives its attack, then the deamonically empoiwered chain snaps back and the victim is abrubtlydragged toward the Blood SLaughterer. Measure target, and the target model 2d6'' towards the BS. If the target model moves into base contact with the BS, the BS then counts as having charged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I could see this being handy in a unit of Blood Slaughterers - maybe even bring 2-3 of them in a unit, each with Impalers for some dragging fun. Not sure exactly how the rules would work when multiple Impalers from the same shooting unit successfully penetrate or wound a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The game would crash, because you would have to move the same model in 2-3 different directions at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 The game would crash, because you would have to move the same model in 2-3 different directions at the same time. Pfft. It's just a case for vectors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Would you resolve each shot one at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Would you resolve each shot one at a time? That's what I would suggest as the easiest option, even if it's not strict RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 bah, just break out a protractor, the tape measure you've already got, a calculator, and some pencil & paper, and do the vector addition. I'm sure stopping games to do math problems will make you super popular! Anyway, yeah, seems pretty clear that these things can be in assault the turn they land, which is actually the one thing that makes risking unaided deep strikes near enemy lines worth it at all. Big risk, but actually a reasonable reward if you pull it off. Still wouldn't bother with the key. It's a rare game where you activate it before your second turn, and by then your slaughters will have already landed 2/3 of the time. By turn three, assaulty armies will likely have already reached melee, and since you can't shoot what's already in hand to hand, the whole harpoon tactic becomes more limited, since you may not have ideal targets to use it on. They're more risky than I like, but are certainly something to consider - along with bikes, spawn, maulers, princes, allied daemonic cav & beasts, and melee infantry in land raiders, spartans, or a dreadclaw, in a T2 assault rush list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minionboy Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Even if it's specifically about bring something into base to base? It's more about not being able to charge after DS isn't it? I tend to think this could work I'm certain it works. The reserve rules stop you from declaring a charge, it say anything to stop you from being in combat the turn you land (otherwise you couldn't get charged either!). The game would crash, because you would have to move the same model in 2-3 different directions at the same time. Nah, when effects occur simultaneously, the player who's turn it is can pick the order, so since you'd resolve up to 3 drags simultaneously, you just pick when the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGibs Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 As the blood slaughterers arent actually declaring a charge, and are themselves not charging (the whole thing takes place in the shooting phase), I don't see any argument as to why they can't pull a unit towards them on the urn they arrive. I don't get where the 6d6 charge range from stacking multiple impalers comes from though. They are resolved one at a time. Where things get particularly weird is how they interact with flyers. Can they impale a zooming/swooping flyer and hit it on a 4+? Or is the fact that they don't use their BS to hit impede them from making snapshots? I don't really understand WHY they have a specific "hits on a 4+" rule, and don't just have BS3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorenus Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 I was wondering about the flyer thing, too. Taken to extreme, the Impaler rule seems to imply that not even flyers are safe from being dragged into base to base contact with the Blood Slaughterer. I thought there was a rule about flyers automatically crashing if they were forced to move outside their normal movement, but when I looked just now I couldn't find it. I think I would probably not attempt to argue with my opponent that a Blood Slaughterer can actually assault a zooming flyer, although the rule seems to at least imply that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrack Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 It certainly would be cinematic though, a Blood Slaughterer harpooning a low flying Storm Talon and dragging it to its waiting claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jackal Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Where things get particularly weird is how they interact with flyers. Can they impale a zooming/swooping flyer and hit it on a 4+? Or is the fact that they don't use their BS to hit impede them from making snapshots? I don't really understand WHY they have a specific "hits on a 4+" rule, and don't just have BS3. Because you don't use Ballistic Skill to make the shot you can't snap shot the impaler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I don't get where the 6d6 charge range from stacking multiple impalers comes from though. They are resolved one at a time.Because moving 2D6" three times in roughly the same direction means that you've moved roughly 6D6". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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