Help Me Design My Orders Fluff

[ElectricPaladin]

I'd like to add some things to my Sisters of Battle models, like fluff and an Order. I'm hoping that the veteran sisters and ecclesiarchs of this forum could lend a hand.

 

Pictures of the models to come.

 

But first, a question: what is the relationship between the less famous Orders and the famous Orders? Do lesser Orders bud off the bigger Orders? If they have such a relationship, does the "child" Order use any of the symbolism or heraldry of the "parent" Order? In other words, would it be reasonable for me to use the custom waterslide transfers I created back when I was going to paint the Order of the Argent shroud for my self-invented Order?

 

I'll start brainstorming names for the Order when I post pictures.

[*Furyou Miko]

Yes, minor orders are offshoots of the major orders - usually they are originally a mission whose posting ended up being permanent. In honour of their new job, they adopt relevant heraldry and alter their colour scheme. The senior officer takes the title of Canoness, if she doesn't already hold it, and the Order becomes semi-independent. I say semi because the Orders are a lot more strictly controlled than the Astartes chapters - they all answer to the Abbesses Prioris and Sanctorum.

 

Heraldry often harkens back to the parent Order, although not always. It's considered polite, and it's rare for a Sister to actively choose to discard their Previous Order's patron saint simply because the habit is hard to break, although any new recruits will be raised in a more unique order tradition, probably with its own patron saint in addition to its parent's.

[Jacinda]

Not all Minor Orders will be derived from a Major Order but they will follow the teachings of at least one of the original Daughters of the Emperor who went before the Golden Throne. These original Saints are also the basis of the Major Orders so there will always be some sort of connection even if a Minor order was not directly created from a Major order. In Space Marine terms ... it is not so much because they are successor chapters, but because they share the same Primarch. So the closer a Minor Order is to being a direct offshoot the more likely they will have similar heraldry as the Major Order they are derived from.

 

 

Anyway, this is how it would usually work. There are enough saints, non-combat orders and massive cathedrals throughout the Imperium to give you the chance to build almost any Order.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

This is also why I want to make my own order so I can have closer ties with Black Templars, the thing that makes me wonder though is just how much can you tie an otder to another force without compromising it as a single force?

 

Any headway yet with the lore mate?

[ElectricPaladin]

I'm at the point where I want to brainstorm based on what the models look like, so I need to get my test model based and sealed, and then I'll post it and we can go to town.

[ValourousHeart]

I don't know if this helps you but I developed the back story for my sisters after the 13th black crusade world campaign.

A lot of that has been retconed at this point, but my theme remains the same.

 

Sister are not only tasked with manning the militant orders, but they also run the orphanages and hospitals.

One of the sister novels, Faith and Fire I believe, provided some validation for my back story.

 

So my order, The Order of the Gossamer Shroud, is a hospital order, they were stationed on the prison planet of the Cadian system. Yes the planet that was blown up by Creed during the crusade. So the Canoness of the order has a brother in the Inquisition that commandeered a ship to extract the order and what prison guards they could.

 

So each squad has a hospitalor model as part of the theme, the only shame is that the model is just for show with no in game effect.

But that is one of my favorite parts of this hobby... doing things for the rule of cool, and not to crush my enemies before me.

 

Maybe when the sisters get an update we'll be able to showcase more aspects of the sisters.

If this long wait gives us not just cool looking new models, but also a rich and colorful expanded understanding and expression, it will all have been worth it.

[Eddie Orlock]

... So the Canoness of the order has a brother in the Inquisition that commandeered a ship to extract the order and what prison guards they could. ...

This relative in the inquisition bit feels non-sequitur-esq to me. What, with the whole raised in the Orphanarium bit the Sororita has going on. The Schola has a whole kill-your-brother-so-you-can-graduate thing going on according to the Militarum Tempestus book.

 

Perhaps, not a brother, but an Inquisitor who figured it'd be useful to have an order with a massive honour debt to him. Might create more potential for character development with the order's command staff being internally conflicted about making good on their promises and the possibly dubious deeds the Inquisitor demands?

[ElectricPaladin]

Alternately, what's the other place where schola kids often end up? The commissariat...

[ElectricPaladin]

Finally, pictures as promised!

 

http://38.media.tumblr.com/e910569df00dd5f26b0c4fd46e4f1428/tumblr_nfaqv3fSMu1rgb5qno1_1280.jpg

 

http://38.media.tumblr.com/7c507ed70c1a20b706848c13b05a76ac/tumblr_nfaqv3fSMu1rgb5qno2_1280.jpg

[KiwiBen]

Looking cool man.

 

Given the weathered look of the armour, and the battle damage on the tank - perhaps the girls are on some sort of penitent crusade?  Rather than being stationed to some cushy "Shrine World Garrison" job, they're out on some long campaign - kicking butt and taking names in an attempt to atone for some failure? (e.g the shrine world they were supposed to be garrisoning ended up getting overrun by [insert bad guys here], or maybe some Chaos warlord managed to steal a sacred relic, and now they're hunting him down?)

 

I think something like that, which ties in with the gritty look, would be cool...  The girls have to just make do with temporary field repairs, they're not able to replenish losses, etc, and it gives you a good excuse to incorporate plenty of priests as well (they're keeping an eye on the girls, and making sure they're truly repentant).

 

I dunno, that's my 2c anyway...

[Lysimachus]

Test mini looks nice, the verdigris on the bronze is fantastic.

 

My only crit would be that perhaps the red is too similar in tone to the bronze, maybe another colour might make for a nice contrast?

 

I'd be inclined to either go for something dark (black being the obvious choice, but maybe just make the red more of a burgundy?) or alternatively darken the bronze with a few washes and do the tabards in a light colour such as white?

 

Edit: Penitent crusade theme is a genius idea btw!

[ElectricPaladin]

Ok, how about this...

The order - to be named soon, hopefully - was a militant order descended from the Order of the Argent shroud. They were founded by a fiery and independent young sister superior, known to disobey and willfully misunderstand orders to lead her followers into battle... and yet, the hand of the Emperor seemed to be upon her, because she survived many battles and was victorious, even when sound tactical analysis declared that her brash actions should by all rights have proven disastrous. She was beatified several decades after her eventual death in combat against the forces of Chaos, and her closest allies gathered and formed into the heart of a new Order, dedicated to her aggressive tactics and a willingness to bring the fight to the enemy. Rather than many other Orders Militant, this Order was given the mandate to pursue Mankind's foes, in much the same manner as a crusading chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. To aid them, a small fleet of the Imperial Navy was ceded to the Order, and a writ established allowing them to demand supplies, crew, and even new void ships (circumstances permitting) from loyal Navy commanders.

Unfortunately, tragedy awaited the young Order. After a series of disastrous engagements, the third canoness fell prey to doubt and fear and was seduced by the whispers of Chaos. Although she convinced herself that she was accepting the Daemon's gifts so that she could turn them against Chaos, she was truthfully afraid to face her failures. The Daemon put its fell "blessing" upon her power sword, causing it to steal the strength of anyone she killed in hand-to-hand combat. With its canoness bloated with stolen power, the Order's fortunes began to change.

However, sin will be exposed, and the Order attracted the attention of the Inquisition. The Canoness began to slowly panic, and found herself drawn deeper into deception and corruption. She was eventually driven to the point that she arranged for the death of one of the Inquisitor's servants who got too close. The Daemon came to taunt her, hoping to drive her to murder the Inquisitor himself and give herself fully to Chaos.

The canoness surprised the Daemon by suddenly repenting her sin. Instead of giving herself to Chaos, she struck the Daemon with the sword. The Daemon was caught entirely unprepared and did not have time to withdraw his corrupt blessing; as a result, the Daemon was trapped within the sword, turning it into a new daemonblade. The canoness then wrote out a lengthy confession and turned the blade upon herself, sealing her soul within the sword alongside the Daemon that had ruined her - a fit punishment, she reasoned, for both of them.

When the rest of the Order discovered what had happened, they decided to follow her example. They turned the letter and the new daemonblade over to the Inquisitor, then placed the Order on the path of penitence. They painted their armor in colors of corrosion and swore that they would not wear golden armor again until the stain of their corruption was washed away in the blood of Mankind's enemies.

The daemonblade containing daemon and the canoness's soul remains with the Inquisition (which gives me a cool idea with how to paint my Inquisitor's daemonblade... making for some very dramatic narratives when I attach my Inquisitorial warband to my Sisters army... ).

What do you think?

[*Furyou Miko]

I don't know if this helps you but I developed the back story for my sisters after the 13th black crusade world campaign.

A lot of that has been retconed at this point, but my theme remains the same.

Sister are not only tasked with manning the militant orders, but they also run the orphanages and hospitals.

One of the sister novels, Faith and Fire I believe, provided some validation for my back story.

So my order, The Order of the Gossamer Shroud, is a hospital order, they were stationed on the prison planet of the Cadian system. Yes the planet that was blown up by Creed during the crusade. So the Canoness of the order has a brother in the Inquisition that commandeered a ship to extract the order and what prison guards they could.

So each squad has a hospitalor model as part of the theme, the only shame is that the model is just for show with no in game effect.

But that is one of my favorite parts of this hobby... doing things for the rule of cool, and not to crush my enemies before me.

Maybe when the sisters get an update we'll be able to showcase more aspects of the sisters.

If this long wait gives us not just cool looking new models, but also a rich and colorful expanded understanding and expression, it will all have been worth it.

The Hospitaller is one of the nicest models GW has produced, I approve. The Inquisitorial brother is a little iffy, but I've considered similar links to Commissars in my fiction-balling, so I can't really call it out.

This is also why I want to make my own order so I can have closer ties with Black Templars, the thing that makes me wonder though is just how much can you tie an otder to another force without compromising it as a single force?

Any headway yet with the lore mate?

Perhaps your Order are a custodial one who failed in their task - they hunt a heretic or chaos marine who has stolen a holy relic. The Templars happen to be hunting the same heretic, and so to get around the lack of Ecclesiarchical naval vessels, the Order supplicated the Templars for an alliance.

Ok, how about this...

The order - to be named soon, hopefully - was a militant order descended from the Order of the Argent shroud. They were founded by a fiery and independent young sister superior, known to disobey and willfully misunderstand orders to lead her followers into battle... and yet, the hand of the Emperor seemed to be upon her, because she survived many battles and was victorious, even when sound tactical analysis declared that her brash actions should by all rights have proven disastrous. She was beatified several decades after her eventual death in combat against the forces of Chaos, and her closest allies gathered and formed into the heart of a new Order, dedicated to her aggressive tactics and a willingness to bring the fight to the enemy. Rather than many other Orders Militant, this Order was given the mandate to pursue Mankind's foes, in much the same manner as a crusading chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. To aid them, a small fleet of the Imperial Navy was ceded to the Order, and a writ established allowing them to demand supplies, crew, and even new void ships (circumstances permitting) from loyal Navy commanders.

I think that such a fiery young Sister is far more likely to have been given to the Bloody Rose than the Argent Shroud - she fits their style a lot better, and she's far more likely to have found enough allies amongst those hotheads for a splinter Order to have been formed in her honour.

Unfortunately, tragedy awaited the young Order. After a series of disastrous engagements, the third canoness fell prey to doubt and fear and was seduced by the whispers of Chaos. Although she convinced herself that she was accepting the Daemon's gifts so that she could turn them against Chaos, she was truthfully afraid to face her failures. The Daemon put its fell "blessing" upon her power sword, causing it to steal the strength of anyone she killed in hand-to-hand combat. With its canoness bloated with stolen power, the Order's fortunes began to change.

I think it would be less fluff-breaking if the Canoness was in denial about the whole thing. Sisters don't fall. They don't accept the gifts of daemons, even to turn them against chaos - they're not Inquisitors, they aren't trained with the same kind of 'ends justify the means' mindset. If the Canoness took up a daemon blade unknowingly, however - for example, if they rescued a holy sword from a reliquary that filled her with the 'blessings of the Emperor' - and it started to get its hooks into her magically speaking, mutating her subtly, it feels a lot more plausible than "one day, the holy warrior who saw bad luck as a divine test that must be risen above got depressed and turned evil".

However, sin will be exposed, and the Order attracted the attention of the Inquisition. The Canoness began to slowly panic, and found herself drawn deeper into deception and corruption. She was eventually driven to the point that she arranged for the death of one of the Inquisitor's servants who got too close. The Daemon came to taunt her, hoping to drive her to murder the Inquisitor himself and give herself fully to Chaos.

Again, it works if the Daemon's influence is more subtle - she doesn't know why the Inquisition is investigating her. She gets paranoid. She starts to think that it's the Inquisitor who has gone radical - that happens all the time - but eventually she figures it out, possibly because of something the acolyte she killed said.

The canoness surprised the Daemon by suddenly repenting her sin. Instead of giving herself to Chaos, she struck the Daemon with the sword. The Daemon was caught entirely unprepared and did not have time to withdraw his corrupt blessing; as a result, the Daemon was trapped within the sword, turning it into a new daemonblade. The canoness then wrote out a lengthy confession and turned the blade upon herself, sealing her soul within the sword alongside the Daemon that had ruined her - a fit punishment, she reasoned, for both of them.

Poetic. I love it. "She sealed herself into the blade, forever to battle with the daemon and curtail its powers".

When the rest of the Order discovered what had happened, they decided to follow her example. They turned the letter and the new daemonblade over to the Inquisitor, then placed the Order on the path of penitence. They painted their armor in colors of corrosion and swore that they would not wear golden armor again until the stain of their corruption was washed away in the blood of Mankind's enemies.

Follow her example makes it sound like they all suicided on the spot.

The daemonblade containing daemon and the canoness's soul remains with the Inquisition (which gives me a cool idea with how to paint my Inquisitor's daemonblade... making for some very dramatic narratives when I attach my Inquisitorial warband to my Sisters army... ).

What do you think?

It has potential!

[ElectricPaladin]

Perfect! Thank you.

I absolutely agree with you that the corruption story would work better if the daemon were a little subtler. So, she found the sword in what appeared to be an untouched shrine on a world overrun by Chaos, and the canoness took it, reasoning that if the blade was blessed to the point that kept the shrine pure, it would have some power against Chaos. She chose to ignore the warning signs because she didn't want to believe that the blade was actually cursed because she ignored the power it gave her.

I also love the idea that she doesn't really know what's going on until she kills the Inquisitor's acolyte. She's getting more and more paranoid, in part because the Inquisition really is investigating her and in part because the cognitive dissonance of trying really really hard not to realize that something is up and it's her fault is wearing on her. So, she kills this acolyte, and... maybe the acolyte does something weird... like seem unusually terrified of the thought of being killed by that sword - because of course, he knows what it's going to do to him. She she grills him - and he responds, because he's playing for time - and gets an idea of what the Inquisitor's after. And then he throws himself off a bridge or into the battleship's plasma engine or something.

And no. I hadn't intended for the entire Order to kill themselves. Or alternately, I didn't mention that I was planning on using the Necron rules to reflect an order of undead Sisters of Battle? Try putting these dames in the fridge!

I do like, though, that the daemon made its bid to fully corrupt her by getting her to consciously choose Chaos shortly after she killed the acolyte, because that gives me the confrontation moment I need for my big finish.

Thanks for your help. I like where this is going...

[*Furyou Miko]

You're welcome.

To be honest, helping people figure out the story they want to tell is one of my favourite things to do, so... hehe.

[ValourousHeart]

Well like I said this back story was written long ago... and GW has added a lot to the background in that time.

And let's not forget that the hunger games came out between the time I wrote this and GW wrote tht AT book... that could have colored thier creativity.

 

And those 2 characters in my list are based on real people. And considering their past I can easily imagin, had these 2 been born in the 40k universe and been in the care of the primary orphanage, that they would have ended up in the respective ordos that I have identified. And then with the younger one going into the Inqusition, it probably wouldn't have been to hard to track her down.

 

Afterall while the sisterhood is likely to be secritive on certain topics, the whereabouts of their members is not likely to be the topic they are secritive about. Especally if she came up via the Hospitaler route.

 

The inquisition hiding a training facility... you bet. The sisters hiding a hospital... you're kidding right?

 

*edit* spell check

[ElectricPaladin]

So... what remains is to name my Order. Any suggestions?

[*Furyou Miko]

And those 2 characters in my list are based on real people. And considering their past I can easily imagin, had these 2 been born in the 40k universe and been in the care of the primary orphanage, that they would have ended up in the respective ordos that I have identified. And then with the younger one going into the Inqusition, it probably wouldn't have been to hard to track her down.

It's not that the Inquisitor couldn't have tracked his sister down, it's the sheer improbability of them ended up in those roles, and of him remembering that he has a sister, given the regular mindwipes and such.

 

 

So... what remains is to name my Order. Any suggestions?

Order of the Crimson Amber. Red robes, gold armour, gold/amber similarity, plus the mythological link between amber and electricity...