Another Gender Question (Actually Attempting Relevancy)

[ElectricPaladin]

 

Feminine decisions? What does that even mean?

 

If instead of Primarch Genghis Khan, Primarch King Arthur, Primarch Spartacus, etc we had Primarch Ann Bonny, Primarch Joan of Arc, Primarch Atalanta, etc I don't think we'd see overmuch change vis-a-vis family feuds and burning galaxies.

 

Anything guided by the feminine self, really. More passive, more sensitive, more nurturing. That isn't to say astartes haven't displayed those traits, but like men, more masculine attributes tend to come to the forefront of thinking, which is kind of my point.

 

Science has yet to speak conclusively on whether or not these traits are inherent in women or imposed by cultural factors, so tread carefully.

[Relict]

Let me lay out what I'm asking here so that this thread does not devolve into the classic "can/should/will GW ever let" women as Space Marines happen. And I mean Space Marines as in Astartes. Not Sisters of Silence, not Sister of Battle. Astartes. So, to my specific question:

 

Could a female undergo the same enhancements undergone by individuals like Kor Phaeron, circa the Age of Darkness?

 

Since this enhancement does not involve geneseed or the troubling trope that the organ "only works with male chromosomes," could a woman undergo the same mixture of cybernetics and muscle-enhancers that make the pseudo-Astartes? I honestly think that it could work, given that nothing about what I have read in the novels invalidates a woman serving in that capacity. Yes, I know that the Space Marines would look at her askew and have trouble accepting her but that's what makes this concept interesting to me. Just for an example, Angron has been vocal about his respect for all his fellow slaves, no matter their gender. So purely hypothetically, if any of the women of his band of rebels survived, wouldn't he have said "set 'em up?" 

 

I dunno guys. I really like this. If I'm totally off-base, let me down easy. 

 

In Angron's case, had he defied the Spartacus trope and actually triumphed over the High-Riders by the time E-Money showed up in orbit above Nuceria, chances are that his surviving companions (male or female) would have at least been given the chance at partial augmentation, just like Kor Phaeron did. In Betrayer, Angron explicitly bemoaned the fact that the Emperor never gave his fellow gladiators the honor he showed the mortal companions of other Primarchs. 

 

On the broader subject, the Imperium is not lacking human bodies. Why would they waste resources on converting women into Astartes (even with an alternative method not involving gene-seeding) when they have perfectly good men to use instead? It's about the amount of resources invested in exchange for returns. Why expend extra effort when the returns will be the same at best? 

 

The Great Crusade was a vast effort of unimaginable scale. It was Humanity's war machine fighting at its zenith. Remember that. 

[KBA]

Feminine decisions? What does that even mean?

If instead of Primarch Genghis Khan, Primarch King Arthur, Primarch Spartacus, etc we had Primarch Ann Bonny, Primarch Joan of Arc, Primarch Atalanta, etc I don't think we'd see overmuch change vis-a-vis family feuds and burning galaxies.

Anything guided by the feminine self, really. More passive, more sensitive, more nurturing. That isn't to say astartes haven't displayed those traits, but like men, more masculine attributes tend to come to the forefront of thinking, which is kind of my point.

Science has yet to speak conclusively on whether or not these traits are inherent in women or imposed by cultural factors, so tread carefully.

Biology vs Environment is a fascinating topic, but fair enough, not here to offend anyone

EDIT: And what about men? Haha. I'm kidding, just looking over your response, it looks like you jumped to defend women, when if anything, my point potentially marginalizes men just as much.

[GhostMalone]

Could it be also that for a stratus in particular women mature at a younger rate then males of the same age, think of a 13 year old girl and a 13 year old boy.

 

The male is still runtish whilst the female grows in stature then by 16 the male has outgrown in height and muscle mass compared to the female maybe the genetic template for males makes it easier for enhancements to take place

[Kol Saresk]

Except we're talking "normal" cybernetic and biological enhancements performed on adults, not gene-seed implantation performed on pubescent teenagers.

[Son of Carnelian]

THIS. IS. NOT. WHAT. I. WANTED.

 

To those of you that have answered the question sincerely and succinctly, thank you. I really did not wanna jump into this debate, because I have not studied enough on the perceptions of gender/sex/biology/nature vs nurture (I only took one 100 level course) and my policy on talking about things I don't know enough about is is to not really talk about them. That being said, I will note that Marshal2 Crusader's comment strikes me as completely out of line since it assumes the intentions of the other posters and I'm really upset that this topic has devolved to that.

 

I kinda wanted Miko and the other women of the board to chime in, but at this point, I doubt we can glean anything more constructive from this discuss. I would hereby request that a moderator close this topic. 

[Hyaenidae]

Yeah. This is getting locked for further review, and some clean up. I'll debate reopening it.

 

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