Baulder Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 So as the title says I've recently had this dilemma regarding the of pods to support a mobile assault based SW army. I understand that the FA slot has now opened up a lot of possibilities for allies (particularly grav cents) but if we 'keep it in the family' what options do we have? Normally, I run a combo of a WG bikes squad paired with TWC. Then add in an IP, Lord and finally a stormwolf to provide AA/anti tank support. From there I usually fill in the gaps a bit with BC/GH or other troops choices to provide obsec and back field objective cover. This core leaves me with a gap in terms of alpha strike and I wanted to bring this to the rout to try and get some better ideas of how I can get the most of my (currently 3) pods. So here are some of the key options as I see them: 1. WG combi bomb (5 combis), a staggering 175pts. With the recent price hikes on combis for PAWG I've found this option lacking somewhat. By dropping small 5man units into enemy infested areas you're essentially limiting yourself to 1 shooting phase to try and make a good return on the spend. In lower points games this loss hurts a lot more than you'd expect and it just seems a waste to knowingly throw away the units. It doesn't take much sustained fire from the enemy to clear these up quickly without an issue. 2. 10 GH (with/without PL and combi), 185-225pts (or higher) depending on what you take. This unit has the utility of being able to turn their bolters on to infantry if there are no good high priority targets. But again suffering from all the AP3 or high volume attacks available to the enemy I find that unless you drop two full squads, in a harder to reach area there is a chance they can still be wiped out quickly. That said they have the added bonus of sustained fire for the main special weapons which can start to add pressure to the enemies back field while the TWC crash into their forward ranks. 3. Ven Dead (MM/PF), 155-165pts. This unit got a lot more reasonable and dropping an AV12 unit with venerable really make people think twice. If you chuck in the extra armour you've got a higher probability that you'll keep on trucking and if you manage to hang on a turn without your arms getting destroyed you can easily wreak havoc melting/squishing high armour/priority targets back field. However, the main drawback from this unit's alpha ability is that it is a one shot wonder. Venerable really help to try and make that shot count but it is still if you're facing anything with jink then you may be wasting your time. Still the added durability and lower cost do mean it may still be there after T1 and if it isn't it hasn't broken the bank as much. 4. WGTDA, 134 base for 3 but can push to 250pts with combis and CML. Ouch this one hits the bank balance hard but if you look at getting 4 with combis for 187 that isn't so bad. A bit more pricey than the 5man PAWG at packs a little bit less of a punch but can be considerably more durable if you chuck shields into the mix. Another option I see with this one is to also possible get a RP in there with them to try and provide some divination goodness (that said I guess you could do the same with the PAWG (though I think putting a RP with them just adds to the loss when the enemy retaliate). Given the small unit size and often high volume of fire power from some armies I think even this unit isn't as durable as we'd like, there are only so many 2+ saves you can make and with a small unit every fail hurts. If anyone can think of any other options available to us then please let me know I've been racking my brains but can't seem to think outside the box. For now I'm leaning toward the ven dread possibly supported by GH or a WGTDA unit and ulrik or RP to try and mitigate some of the early failed shooting and add a little more staying power. Just given the investment and chance of poor returns it is seeming to me that this may not be the way to get the most out of the pods for us. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 When the codex came out, I spent weeks thinking of the same thing, it is tough very tough to try and make pods work in the current game i feel. 1 Pod like you suggested with melta's yes can be devastating but with the new damage chart the chance of doing something has become more and more difficult. Then the other issue is what ever you drop has the smallest chance of surviving and with units being more expensive across the table... i cannot bring my self to sacrifice a unit of 10 GH or 5 wg ect..ect.. I seeked alternative uses for pods!! and it clicked! Why not drop pods with guns.Now this sorts out 2 issues. First issue what to do with all those pods i no longer use!! and 2nd, i generally dont take long fangs any more so what to do with my heavy support slots! Deathstorm drop pods. it is a standard drop pod with whirlwind missile launcher for 75 points. Land it close to or ontop of an objective on there side of the table and if you are lucky it will hit! and now u have something scoring and shooting. The turn it arrives all units friendly as well ! will take D3 whirlwind hits! (yes 3 large blasts). Alternatively you can pay for assault cannons and that's now D3 assault cannon shots so up to 12! in each unit. Now the way i practiced this was by taking a minimum of 3 pods. 2 Deathstorm pods, and 1 standard space wolf drop pod wasting a fast attack slot but i never take 3 FA. Allowing me to have 2 deathstorm pods down in the first turn. I Also gave the drop pod with the assault cannons drop site massacre so it did not scatter. Landed it with in the enemy lines with in 3 inch's of my opponents objective and got d3 assault cannons shots on many units!. Dont have the book with me now so i cannot add this up but the 2 deathstorm pods + upgrades on one of them 200 points. Your opponent is going to be forced to shoot these as they will be laying fire every turn. Now they might not be giving you the objective as he might have objective secure! but you can be sure to get line breaker, or just keep shooting the unit next to you till they die or run!. I have recently stopped using this due to the fact i am currently testing out other army lists. However its a pain to deal with!. Shoot a pod which has no value? but will shoot you in the back? Providing line breaker, and a possible objective? or do you shoot the hordes of TWC running at you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Very good idea I'd never really considered it tbh but that seems to give much better returns for your buck. In addition to the 2 pods at T1 it may even be worth taking the third pod with a GH flamer unit for clearing/holding objectives later in the game. Must admit more and more my pods are falling into the role of distraction units rather than proper alpha strikes so I I'll have to test this out. The only really problem with this is the lack of early melta in the case of high priority long range tanks that need to be removed quickly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Never though of that LOL :p stick 5 of my gh into the 3rd pod to clear an area out! opse. Also to convert these deathstorm pods is fairly straight forward and cheap. In regards to the melta, i guess it comes down to personal preference. Some players prefer the drop pod melta where as some prefer to charge the tanks! or try to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I am seriously tempted to buy the Lucius Pattern Dreadnaught Drop pod. With Murderfang in it, thats going to terrify our enemies. Because you will be able to get him into combat on turn 1, you can pretty much be assured he will do some damage before being cut down. Either put him next to a squad of nasty enemy elites or a large squad of infantry, to ensure he gets his rampage bonus. Or put him next to enemy warlord, try to get that warlord kill early on to mess up your enemies game plan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I am seriously tempted to buy the Lucius Pattern Dreadnaught Drop pod. With Murderfang in it, thats going to terrify our enemies. Because you will be able to get him into combat on turn 1, you can pretty much be assured he will do some damage before being cut down. Either put him next to a squad of nasty enemy elites or a large squad of infantry, to ensure he gets his rampage bonus. Or put him next to enemy warlord, try to get that warlord kill early on to mess up your enemies game plan. You cannot assault the same turn u arrive! that has been changed. However if you stay on some part of the drop pod you gain shrouded. So if you really wnat to bring murdafang down turn 1 i recommend you roll for night fighting so you get stealth and shrouding. So now you have a 4+ cover save so ensure he can make it into combat turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 LOL I remember being corrected on this a few months ago. Selective memory I guess. D'Oh Still, If you drop a few pods turn 1, including this one, I guess he stands a better chance too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Done a little bit of reading about the deathstorm and it sounds promising though does come with some downsides. BS2 so the assault cannot variant may still struggle somewhat esp. with a bad D3 roll when you land. I think that the whirlwind variant should manage with the poor BS a bit better and it follows normal weapon ranges thereafter so you have a much bigger potential kill zone. The other thing I noticed is the required +25pts upgrade to get drop pod assault so that pushes them up a bit but otherwise I think I'll need to test these out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Main thing to remember is to not rely on these units. They are only here for one reason and one reason only to distract, and divert fire power. There is nothing more fun than bringing these down turn 1 killing enough to cause leadership test. As its turn 1 fairly close to own edge! make em run off!! MUHAHAAHAHAHAA! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Done a little bit of reading about the deathstorm and it sounds promising though does come with some downsides. BS2 so the assault cannot variant may still struggle somewhat esp. with a bad D3 roll when you land. I think that the whirlwind variant should manage with the poor BS a bit better and it follows normal weapon ranges thereafter so you have a much bigger potential kill zone. The other thing I noticed is the required +25pts upgrade to get drop pod assault so that pushes them up a bit but otherwise I think I'll need to test these out. There is also a huge contrdiction. First you shoot evrything withing 12" and then your minimum range is 12". and Spending another 20points for assault on BS2 is kinda wasted and if u want to have 2 on turn 1 u need to spend another 25 (50) points for that. Not a fan of that. While there a is a use for it and that being the uneven Droppod to u bring down 2 regular Droppods round one. SInce he doesnt have the DPA Rule he still counts for the orthers listed. It might be a little bending the rules but i just checked our DPA Rules only state "any droppod". SO bringing it down turn 2-3 , it can devaste the back line and then use his ignore cover and high range to focus on the spreadout units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail187 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Ye not really the most point efficient use of a drop pod however can be funny :). Pods for allies for me is currently doing wonders, Centurions in a pod with dropsite massacre has been burning my enemies! Stick something in side the drop pod that is not meant to be in normally works!. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baulder Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Actually I don't think there is a contradiction. It clearly states that for the first shooting phase it targets every unit with 12 indiscriminately. Then further down the page it states that in subsequent phases you can target units at the weapons normal range which for whirlwinds is 12-48" barrage/ordinance right? So you're spending 100pts and getting a hell of a lot of horde killing for a turn then a stationary bs2 whirlwind. But if it has earned it's back in T1 you're quids in. Like Sohail says though, fun factor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Most of the time I would prefer GH because they have lower PPM and more boots. But this is me speaking from a perspective of having Centurions and thus being saturated with AP2. If you lack AP2 or Special Weapons in general, then PAWG are worth a look. I would not go for TDA since they cost a FA slot and because they cost 10 PPM more when equipped with combis and compared to PAWG with combis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletoro Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 clarification on Lucius. You can stay embarked turn 1. And then the pod has shrouded, av12 and 3 hull points to protect the dread with. It is open topped so the dread can still shoot if it has weapons, and then assault out of the pod the following turn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkalleone Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 clarification on Lucius. You can stay embarked turn 1. And then the pod has shrouded, av12 and 3 hull points to protect the dread with. It is open topped so the dread can still shoot if it has weapons, and then assault out of the pod the following turn Yup he is Great dor Murderfang. Only downside is u have to be carefull not being surrounded when you stay inside. Cause then you cant disembark when its blown up. My Question now: Lets say u get surrounded and cant really disembark but the Pod stays intact. Can u charge without disembarking? Cause then the 1" rule is not relevant and u can fight from the pod itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299174-to-pod-or-not-to-pod-that-is-the-question/#findComment-3860745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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