most competitively played Legion

[Captain Cain]

A good question b1soul, although I have not noticed something like a rock, paper, scissors system yet.

[DuskRaider]

For wiping infantry off the board, I think Death Guard are pretty darn good. They run into issues against armor... At least their Legion-specific units do.

[Phalanx Warder]

I think that you can only play the "this legion counters that Legion" at smaller point levels and even then you have to hope that they use their legion specific rules to leverage any form of advantage your chosen legion may have, on top of that you then have to hope that they employ said list in a manner that you can exploit. I have had huge success with my Imperial Fists but they took some learning. In larger games you can forget about it, everyone has access to the same hardcore stuff and it is down to the dice gods unless..........

 

You learn the strengths on your own force and how best to employ them, every game I have lost has been my own fault for whatever reason. I have played DG, IW, WB, NL, EC and generic Legion rules representing UM,SW 1ksons and out off all of that I have not faced a Legion that was downright just better than me nor can I say that IF were any better than them. Its all about play style and playing to the mission not (as i used to do 100% of the time) just trying to table your opponent.

 

Thats my 2 blood eagles anyway

[Leif Bearclaw]

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

[depthcharge12]

Assault legions are good against Iron Hands, who only get their benefit against shooting attacks.

 

Salamanders are great for stopping Deathstar units and tooled up praetors.

 

Imperial Fists are great all rounders.

 

EC and AL are good alpha strike armies.

[Captain Cain]

I'd rather say AL are allrounders, given their :cussload of special rules o choose from.

[DuskRaider]

In all honesty, HH is not meant for competitive play. Every Legion has a strength and a weakness. The rules are incredibly balanced so no one has a clear advantage (although I do feel the more recent Legions received better rules), it all comes down to tactics and the roll of the dice.

[UltraCaptain]

I think there is a vast difference in "including and excluding" primarchs. But the two top tier IMO are Iron Hands and Alpha Legion. The bonus Alpharious has in hands down the best general army booster you can get. Preffered enemy is the best USR for general purpose, and all your infantry has it now on top of a free pick of 1 USR. As it is such a static army booster, you can equate it to the army having X points more than the enemy, as a function of the total point of the army. Which also means, that it will have less of an effect in small point cames, and become bigger in larger, until it reaches a climax where Alpharius can't relyably be on the table for one turn until he gets titan weapon destroyed.

 

So in my personal opinion

Alpha Legion // Iron Hands

Iron Warriors // Salamanders // Imperial Fists // Word Bearers

Sons of Horus // Death Guard

World Eaters // Emperors Children

 

I have a hard time judge Raven Guards and Night Lords, haven't read their rules in depth.

 

However, I do have a second theory, that the composition of a legion army matters more than the legion you picked. They are all very similar in all regards, and good and bad choices has a larger impact.

[Memento Of Prospero]

While the top of the totem pole is crowded, the bottom is a very lonely place for World Eaters. Their legion special rules are very weak and not very functional. There is no real benefit to playing them, unless your opponent is playing some kind of MSU army list, which is very discouraged due to unit initial investment costs.

[Brofist]

Well, at least they're not alone. WE and DG both didn't get much love from the rules department. Even in the 31st millennium, immunity to fear and re-rolling dangerous terrain tests in swamps is pretty

[Marshal Loss]

While I still lament some aspects of the Sons of Horus (Justaerin are still over-costed and Abaddon is terrible for his points, which is a pity because he's my favourite character), I've long since learned that while they may not have obviously huge advantages or wargear that gives eternal warrior etc, they have none of the large drawbacks that come with these. The Black Reaving is pretty nasty too. If any legions have the short end of the stick it's probably World Eaters & maybe Emperors Children, although I've seen plenty advocating the strengths of the III Legion.

 

What truly impresses me about 30k is how the rules for each Legion represent how they play. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of making a XVI army that plays according to their fluff, and as others in the thread have said I haven't gone into a game against another 30k army feeling like I'm hopelessly outclassed.

 

I think comparing the different legion rules is difficult because you should be comparing the armies that accompany such rules, rather than the rules themselves.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

 

Ah OK, so it's the Primarch, not the Legion Asrartes Rules. However, that still doesn't take away or reduce the effectiveness of the plasma Moritat in the absence of Alpharius, just makes him better if you drop 400+ (can't remember the exact number) points on a Primarch.

[Balthamal]

If you added Konrad Curze to a Night Lords army using the RoW (although admittedly at 3k+ Points) then they become pretty damn formidable. Curze himself is a monster, easily one of the best 3/4 Primarchs who have rules at this time

[Sevatar]

Eh. I dont think so. Based on rules so far Ferrus, Vulkan, Horus, Fulgrim etc all beat him quite easily, while having larger force multiplier effects too.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

 

I don't think he is allowed any buffs per the Lone Killer rule. It is meant that he can't be buffed in any way shape or form.

[Captain Cain]

Lone killer only denies them to join, therefore they cannot gain unit wide rules. Army wide rules are no problem.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

I don't think he is allowed any buffs per the Lone Killer rule. It is meant that he can't be buffed in any way shape or form.

It prevents psychic blessing powers from being used on him but it does not restrict army wide special rules from working on him.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Eh. I dont think so. Based on rules so far Ferrus, Vulkan, Horus, Fulgrim etc all beat him quite easily, while having larger force multiplier effects too.

Interestingly enough Curze is actually able to beat Most Primarchs when you factor in the charge bonus from hit and run and the shooting attack he gets every other round of combat. Angron and Horus still paste him though.

[depthcharge12]

 

 

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

I don't think he is allowed any buffs per the Lone Killer rule. It is meant that he can't be buffed in any way shape or form.

It prevents psychic blessing powers from being used on him but it does not restrict army wide special rules from working on him.

Look up the FAQ on forgeworld:

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_v.2.pdf

 

It says he may not benefit from ANY beneficial special rules from other friendly characters or any buffs provided from a rite of war.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

 

 

 

 

 

I'd put Alpha Legion at number 1. They get a lot of powerful options and they are the only ones with plasma spam Moritats anymore.

Um how? What changed in the red books? I assume 'plasma spam' Moritats means packing a pair of plasma pistols, which was a universal option of all Moritats. Plus I don't remember the AL getting any buffs to Moritats from their Legion rules.

Alpharius grants the entire army Preffered Enemy: All, which allows rerolls of to hits and to wound rolls of 1. The Moritat is BS5. This grants him on average 70 plasma pistol hits per turn. Gotta love them 2+ rerollables.

I don't think he is allowed any buffs per the Lone Killer rule. It is meant that he can't be buffed in any way shape or form.

It prevents psychic blessing powers from being used on him but it does not restrict army wide special rules from working on him.

Look up the FAQ on forgeworld:

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/Betrayal_FAQ_Errata_v.2.pdf

 

It says he may not benefit from ANY beneficial special rules from other friendly characters or any buffs provided from a rite of war.

i must have missed that.

[Balthamal]

Eh. I dont think so. Based on rules so far Ferrus, Vulkan, Horus, Fulgrim etc all beat him quite easily, while having larger force multiplier effects too.

 

He has high WS/I/A and get's the benefits of his Lightning Claws plus Hit and Run which is massive. Free turn of the potentially inv ignoring shooting attacks? Yes please.

 

Horus and Angron are the only 2 who'll beat him hands down at the moment, the rest? Plenty of them will get spanked by him. I'd expect Sanguinius, Khan and the Lion to put a beatdown on him when the time comes too but that's another story.

 

As has been mentioned before however, if you're looking at a purely competitive environment, you're looking in the wrong place. I've yet to meet/speak to anyone who wanted to take the WAAC/Power gaming approach to the HH

[Captain Cain]

@Balthamal: Well, you can take everything as a competition, especially when there are tournaments in your area. But you are right about the HH rules being primary for story telling.

[Memento Of Prospero]

I have yet to find a problem that couldn't solve with enough landraider/spartan twin-linked lascannon goodness.

[Brofist]

HH is really nice in that, by and large, everything is pretty balanced. The goal was internal balance, but it translates pretty well into 40k as well. The gamers rock too, since most people aren’t looking to min max the same few lists over and over again.

 

That doesn’t mean everything is level though and some units/legions have an easier time of it than others. There are a number of things that just aren’t useful in the books too.