Dreadnoughts: A Discussion for fielding the Ancients

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello.

 

How are people finding the arms for Dreadnoughts these days?  Anyone having significant luck with the Ven Dread that gets the FGA and BS?

 

Also, what if anything do players have in terms of feedback on my Flyer's Handbook, and what else it might need?  I am thinking about the thread these days, and I would love to get some feedback and editing in it done soon.

 

Sorry, been rather busy at work these days; as well, I might be able to get a picture of my collection soon.  I cannot paint myself, so the paint job is all commission work; however, that said, should be impressive.  Also, got a game in a while back that was a draw, and I see a great deal of generalship things I need to work on to improve my leadership on the table.

 

I have just under 8,500 points of Vlka Fenryka which is rather impressive.  I can post the list, however it will take a while to type up.

 

There are one to three models I need to get to round out my Great Company, so I need to decide on what to do overall in that regard.  If I go up to 10,000 points however I can add as I choose, however that's 1,500 points of new SW's that would need painting work done by another.

 

I'm debating what to do in this regard towards my total force...  Feedback welcome, as always.  Transporting is pretty well figured out currently.

 

I'm wondering what the moderators think of an active discuss things in general related to WH40K thread, to repurpose threads I've seen elsewhere.  Kind of a 40K watercooler or bar thread, to keep with our theme in the Fang, the meeting halls as it were.

[Lord Blackwood]

I think it really depends on yer list. Plasma Cannons are sorta amazing.  Im not much for long range fire support but I will drop Murderfang and the Void Claws behind enemy lines and go " Shoot my knights, or shoot the things that are going to knife punch you to death , THE CHOICE IS YOURS  MUWAHAHAHA "   

That being said I have like 7 dreadnoughts  2 with the axe and shield and  3 with like customization arms  Bjorn and Murderfang. 

Theres a ton of options with em but at the end of the day ,  they have to fit your role in huge games though I run all seven of em , part as the Brethern of the Fellhanded a three stack of plasma sniper dread bros is always a good laugh. 

Then I drop Murderfang and the two Axe Bros into the backfield. 

Normal and Smaller games tho , I think fielding other stuff might be more wise. 

As far as the actual construction and use of em , the arms are great , everything in the kit is easy to swap out , dont really have to do any magnetization if yah dont wanna.  The only thing yer gonna have to do is pick up some auto cannon arms and some  plasma cannon arms from the like vanilla dreadnought kit, other than that I would say the dreadnought box is one of our better boxes cause it builds  2 characters , and theres lots of combos to build nifty lookin ancients. 

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I for one would love to see a picture of 10K worth of wolves!!

 

I've been running Bjorn with a Helfrost cannon. It's not bad, but I have yet to 'frost' a single thing with it. I may be going back to the traditional standard, a plasma cannon.

 

I have also been running 2 BlizzyD's with quite a lot of success. I put them into pods and bring them both down first turn (most of the time) and as much in your face as I dare. I love them. The fluff, the model and the look on my opponents face is often times priceless!!

 

End of Line

[Frater Cornelius]

Truth be told, I find them lackluster, to put it in a nice way.

[Karack Blackstone]

Nice feedback, Brothers!

 

My Dread force is six: Bjorn, one Blizzy, and four that I can make as I like.

 

I supposedly (not confirmed) have a 40K game coming up soon, and I am debating on my four normal Dreads and Bjorn's arms loadout.  The Blizzy is glued, which is fine with me, his arms don't stay on that well normally.  The other five are all unglued and set up to swap.  The two big things I need are: do PF on Dreads swing at I 4 or I 1?  And, which is better overall: PC arms or AC arms?  I have enough PC arms already painted up to use.

[Frater Cornelius]

I4. Dreads and MC ignore unwieldy.

[Karack Blackstone]

I4. Dreads and MC ignore unwieldy.

 

Thanks for the info, Immersturm.

[Frater Cornelius]

You are welcome.

 

Nice feedback, Brothers!

 

My Dread force is six: Bjorn, one Blizzy, and four that I can make as I like.

 

I supposedly (not confirmed) have a 40K game coming up soon, and I am debating on my four normal Dreads and Bjorn's arms loadout.  The Blizzy is glued, which is fine with me, his arms don't stay on that well normally.  The other five are all unglued and set up to swap.  The two big things I need are: do PF on Dreads swing at I 4 or I 1?  And, which is better overall: PC arms or AC arms?  I have enough PC arms already painted up to use.

 

I would prefer the dual-AC version aka Rifleman. PC suffers a lot from the one-shot-syndrome.

[Karack Blackstone]

You are welcome.

 

Nice feedback, Brothers!

 

My Dread force is six: Bjorn, one Blizzy, and four that I can make as I like.

 

I supposedly (not confirmed) have a 40K game coming up soon, and I am debating on my four normal Dreads and Bjorn's arms loadout.  The Blizzy is glued, which is fine with me, his arms don't stay on that well normally.  The other five are all unglued and set up to swap.  The two big things I need are: do PF on Dreads swing at I 4 or I 1?  And, which is better overall: PC arms or AC arms?  I have enough PC arms already painted up to use.

 

I would prefer the dual-AC version aka Rifleman. PC suffers a lot from the one-shot-syndrome.

 

Hm, I'll have to check my supply of Dread arms for this before proceeding here.

 

My tactical thinking is that since I only have conventional tread head vehicles, my formation and Great Company are thus:

 

Wolf Guard Kingsguard

 

Logan

Arjac

6 TH / SS WG TDA Pack

LRC w/ EA

 

8 Dual WC WG TDA Pack

LRC w/ EA

 

Great Company (6th Ed Apoc Book)

WL w/ dual WC, TDA

WGBL w/ dual WC, TDA

3 WG TDA w/ TH / SS

LR w/ EA

 

Bjorn

Five Dreads, 1 FGA / BS, 1 TLLC / PF, 3 (Right arm free to discuss) / PF; all have EA

 

10 Wolf Scouts with Sniper Rifles

 

6 Grey Hunter Packs

Each pack is:

1 RP w/ Psychic Hood

1 WGPL w/ PF / SS

8 GH's with PW (Sword), MG

Rhino w/ EA

 

2 BC Packs

Each has:

1 WP

1 WGPL w/ PF / BP

14 BC's w/ PW (Sword)

Stormwolf with TLMM side sponsons

 

2 Skyclaw packs

Each with:

1 WP w/ JP

1 WGPL w/ JP, PW (sword)

9 Skyclaws

 

2 Vindi's with Siege Shields and EA

 

1 Predator Annihilator with TLLC, LC sponsons, EA

 

4 Long Fangs Packs

2 with: 5 ML

1 with 5 LC

1 with 5 PC

 

2 Plazorbacks assigned to LF Packs

 

(I might have more, gotta review my list before the game, and update here if I find I've forgotten anything.)

[Frater Cornelius]

Rifleman covers SW (and most other marine) weaknesses:

1) Opening transports at long range

2) high frequency high strength shooting

3) can function as AA but is not useless when no air is present

[skeletoro]

from memory, dread ccws don't have unwieldy anyway, so there's two reasons theyre i4. Not that it matters, one reason is sufficient ;)

[Karack Blackstone]

from memory, dread ccws don't have unwieldy anyway, so there's two reasons theyre i4. Not that it matters, one reason is sufficient

All DCCW's are now listed as Power Fists in the Codex. Food for thought.

[Reichfaust]

I have been a big fan of the Venerable Dreadnoughts w/FGA & Shield from the second I laid eyes on them--I had five Dreads already counting Bjorn, but I bought a new box and kit-bashed two more sets of arms, so I now have one with the Great Axe & Shield, one with a Great Sword & Shield and one with a Hammer & Shield just for variety's sake, and also to give them a bit of character and for easy identification. (Will post a pic once they're painted up!)

 

I ran all three in a tournament at the start of November, and I had a lot of fun with them. Between the "Venerable" rule and that mighty 3++ invuln. save they're incredibly durable--in 5 games I only suffered Dreadnought casualties on two occasions; a single Dread due to a Broadside missile volley that whittled me down in one game, and all 3 in one turn thanks to a Transcendant C'Tan in another (needless to say that was not a very enjoyable game).

 

I bucked the conventional logic of putting them in pods and chose to footslog them, running them as a screen in front of my double Vindicators as they charged towards the enemy. That posed my enemies with a serious dilemma--aim anti-tank weapons at the Dreadnoughts and try to get through AV12/Venerable and the Invulnerable save, or aim at the Vindicators and try to get through AV13 and a cover save? This strategy worked really well, and combined with air support in the form of two Stormwolves and a TWC squad acting as a second pinsir I was able to table four out of my five opponents, except in the final game in which I got tabled myself (seriously, that Transcendant C'Tan wiped out my entire army almost singlehandedly).

 

With WS5, four attacks on the charge, master-crafted AND Hammer of Wrath these things don't get bogged down by squads in close combat the way standard Dreadnoughts do. I charged squads that would normally tar-pit a regular Dread for a whole game and managed to clear them out in a couple of rounds of combat. Granted they are not a straight-up troop blender in the way the Murderfang is; but I rate the survivability of 3++ save and Venerable MUCH higher than IWND. 

 

Needless to say after the runaway success that was their performance in this tournament I will definitely be running these guys a lot more in future, footslogging or otherwise. I genuinely think Shield Dreadnoughts are possibly the most potent unit in our codex right now.

 

Next time I think I will team all three up led by Bjorn just for flavour. The Ancients march to war!

[Karack Blackstone]

I have been a big fan of the Venerable Dreadnoughts w/FGA & Shield from the second I laid eyes on them--I had five Dreads already counting Bjorn, but I bought a new box and kit-bashed two more sets of arms, so I now have one with the Great Axe & Shield, one with a Great Sword & Shield and one with a Hammer & Shield just for variety's sake, and also to give them a bit of character and for easy identification. (Will post a pic once they're painted up!)

 

I ran all three in a tournament at the start of November, and I had a lot of fun with them. Between the "Venerable" rule and that mighty 3++ invuln. save they're incredibly durable--in 5 games I only suffered Dreadnought casualties on two occasions; a single Dread due to a Broadside missile volley that whittled me down in one game, and all 3 in one turn thanks to a Transcendant C'Tan in another (needless to say that was not a very enjoyable game).

 

I bucked the conventional logic of putting them in pods and chose to footslog them, running them as a screen in front of my double Vindicators as they charged towards the enemy. That posed my enemies with a serious dilemma--aim anti-tank weapons at the Dreadnoughts and try to get through AV12/Venerable and the Invulnerable save, or aim at the Vindicators and try to get through AV13 and a cover save? This strategy worked really well, and combined with air support in the form of two Stormwolves and a TWC squad acting as a second pinsir I was able to table four out of my five opponents, except in the final game in which I got tabled myself (seriously, that Transcendant C'Tan wiped out my entire army almost singlehandedly).

 

With WS5, four attacks on the charge, master-crafted AND Hammer of Wrath these things don't get bogged down by squads in close combat the way standard Dreadnoughts do. I charged squads that would normally tar-pit a regular Dread for a whole game and managed to clear them out in a couple of rounds of combat. Granted they are not a straight-up troop blender in the way the Murderfang is; but I rate the survivability of 3++ save and Venerable MUCH higher than IWND. 

 

Needless to say after the runaway success that was their performance in this tournament I will definitely be running these guys a lot more in future, footslogging or otherwise. I genuinely think Shield Dreadnoughts are possibly the most potent unit in our codex right now.

 

Next time I think I will team all three up led by Bjorn just for flavour. The Ancients march to war!

 

I have one Blizzard Ven Dread built, now I have to debate getting more!  Wow, that's pretty impressive.

 

Considering my plan for my upcoming game is to run four dreads at the enemy each leading a Rhino with RP and GH's inside in my force above in posts towards the enemy...  It's kinda sad that the only unit I realistically think can make it across the battlefield of the Tau gunline I may (he has quite a few army options) face.  My friend has the option of just about any army he wants to run, so planning seems like a very difficult thing to do at the moment, as I won't know what army I am up against, or more than one, until possible game day.

[jerrys]

Considering my plan for my upcoming game is to run four dreads at the enemy each leading a Rhino with RP and GH's inside in my force above in posts towards the enemy...

Doesn't it mean that your transports will be moving 6" per turn instead of 18"? It seems like a significant drawback, right?

[Karack Blackstone]

 

Considering my plan for my upcoming game is to run four dreads at the enemy each leading a Rhino with RP and GH's inside in my force above in posts towards the enemy...

Doesn't it mean that your transports will be moving 6" per turn instead of 18"? It seems like a significant drawback, right?

 

 

18" and nothing else to shoot at in my experience against this player means dead transport and then dead occupants as the Tau gunline removes the GH's inside at will.

 

Therefore, maybe using 6" moves and Dreads in front to shield might get them there.  At the very least a 1 won't glance a Dread; it can actually eat several hits and it's not a move I've tried before.

 

Edit: http://imgur.com/a/oLcy3#0

[Valerian]

Who painted your army for you?  I've used a variety of commission artists over the years.  Looks good - you've got a nice respectable force there.

 

V

[Karack Blackstone]

Who painted your army for you?  I've used a variety of commission artists over the years.  Looks good - you've got a nice respectable force there.

 

V

 

On Facebook, Fast Attack Painting, Mason was the artist.  And he did an amazing job on my army, that's for sure.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I built a bunch of Rifleman dreads back in 5th edition, and they've done journeyman work ever since.  They were particularly useful in 6th, when the meta shifted away from long range firepower.  They frequently went entire games without taking any fire, since nothing could reach far enough to tag them.

 

The emergence of Imperial Knights has definitely brought lascannons back onto the table, which are a solid threat to dreadnoughts, but that's really about it.  I'm still unimpressed with the helfrost and plasma cannon options and I maintain that the only dreadnoughts that should ever be in assault are AV13.

[grouj]

http://southoftheeyeofterror.blogspot.com/2014/10/list-space-wolves-champions-of-fenris.html

 

That is actually the list that I am planning on using with a few tweaks, it really depends on what I find out about Vindicare Assassins to be honest. If the Assassin allows me to allocate the wounds as I see fit then he is going in to take out the enemy, if not then I think I may find the points for air support from a stormfang or wolf. I am also considering going double auto cannons instead of plasma cannons since, as Immer said, transports are the devil.

[Donkalleone]

Does a Smokelauncher in a Blitz make sense? Cazse i Saw some builds with it

[jerrys]

Please pardon my irrelevant question. I didn't want to start a thread over it, but this has been confusing me for a while and it is the closest thread I can find :) ...

If Bjorn has a plasma cannon...

He rolls scatter dice. He doesn't get to re-roll the scatter, but he subtracts 6" from the distance roll. He then rolls a d6 for the "gets hot". If it's a 1, he can reroll it. If the reroll is another 1, then you roll 1d6 and on a 1-3 he takes a glancing hit. I guess he can also try his invulnerable save against this glancing hit? If he did get the snake eyes on his "gets hot", then the shot doesn't go off, even if the scatter dice said it was a hit.

Is that all correct? I am just trying to make sure I have it down, as the rules are all over the place.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Frater Cornelius]

Yes. Subtract 6" on a non-hit. Re-roll a 1 on Gets Hot once because of BS6. Snake eyes means no shooting and he will lose a hull-point unless you roll a 4+ on a subsequent D6. Everything seems to be in order.

[Lord Blackwood]

which makes sense  because if youve ever read battle of the fang you know Bjorn  put in some serious work with a plasma cannon

[jerrys]

which makes sense  because if youve ever read battle of the fang you know Bjorn  put in some serious work with a plasma cannon

That was in fact the point at which I started trying to figure it out.

 

I guess I have a reluctance to play the heroes, preferring to keep my guys semi-anonymous. As they do not seem to have a great life expectancy. Do you guys work around this psychological hurdle in some way (e.g. "counts as")? Or should I just get over it, it's warhammer?

 

Though, the Chaos guy recently mentioned that he was going to convert his marines into Thousand Suns. If that happens, the gloves are coming off and I am going to fill 6 HQ slots with the champions of Fenris.