starting my Imperial Fists collection

[Dusktiger]

so i'm trying to make up an initial list here of what i want to build up to for my Fists. I'm planning to use the 2 breacher squads as the core of any list i build, in case i want to make use of the RoW. which means i'll likely have to drop the master of signals whenever i do so since my 2nd consul choice can only be a champion when its in use.

i like the idea of Alexis, so i want to keep him in most lists as well when i can afford him. Same with the Sicaran Venator, as i like the look of that tank so much.

the terminator squad i threw in there because its something interesting and different from the usual variety of 40k storm shield terminators, but im not hung up on them enough to make them stay in the list if there's something better to take. i'm thinking of getting a dual fist IF Contemptor when they're available and taking either flamers or plasma blasters in them. so maybe that will replace them.

i think the list is fairly straight forward and simplistic in what its trying to do, but im just not sure if everything i've chosen synergizes well enough. for example, i have no idea what squad the MoS should walk with, though im guessing a breacher unit is as good as anything else. and im thinking that alex should probably walk with either the terminators or the templars. if not using their RoW, im thinking the templars, and then give the terminators the free deep strike ability to bring them in close, try and weather any shots, and then assault. though i get the feeling the squad is probably a point sink and i should take something else.

the warders and templar i want to try and keep in the list whenever possible since i feel they are important parts of the legion's character and should be there to represent that. which is also why i have the breachers, since this is a legion known for specializing in void combat. the templar are being taken basically how the warhammerfest preview pics display the squad, as its one of the few units i can throw a solarite gauntlet on and not feel like im wasting it. and the phalanx are the only ones i get to put plasma guns on, so i wanted to do that to make them further stand out. i also felt that they seem alot like vanguard veterans in how i should be sparing on how many power axes i toss into the unit before making it all overpriced and losing out on the legion's BS5 bolter ability.

anyways, here's what i have in my head so far. I'm open to suggestions on things to change around; i think i should probably put more importance in better equipping sergeants for challenges, but i get the feeling that if i let someone assault my breachers, i probably did something wrong. so it might be a waste of points to better prepare them if this is the case. let me know what you guys think; so far i only own 5 breachers and the models i plan to create my MoS, PM, and Alexis with so far, so im willing to hear any advice.

finally, my opponents all focus on infantry heavy armies for the most part, with a couple contemptors for color. none of them use flyers and have any intention of getting any, save for one, who wants to buy a caestus at some point, but that's been on the 'to do' list for almost 2 years now and he's terrible with finicky FW flyer assembly, so i dont see it happening anytime soon unless he asks me to build it for him.

2000 Pts - Legiones: Imperial Fists Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1960

Alexis Polux
Master of Signal


4 Terminator Squad, + Lightning Claw x4 + Vigil Storm Shield x4
1 Terminator Sergeant, + Lightning Claw + Vigil Storm Shield

4 Templar Brethren, + Combat Shield x4 + Legion Vexilla
1 Chapter Champion, + Combat Shield + Solarite Power Gauntlet

9 Breacher Siege Squad, + Volkite Charger x2 + Legion Vexilla
1 Apothecary, + Volkite Charger
1 Veteran Sergeant

9 Breacher Siege Squad, + Volkite Charger x2 + Legion Vexilla
1 Apothecary, + Volkite Charger
1 Veteran Sergeant


1 Primus Medicae
9 Phalanx Warder Squad, + Power Axe x2 + Plasma gun x2 + Legion Vexilla

1 Veteran Sergeant, + Power Axe


Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer

[Slips]

Due to the Amount of Shields you got, I'd pretty much consider taking the RoW all the time. You're right in that the Master of Signal feels out of place. If you ever grow the list and add dedicated Shooting units, then yeah, hes totally worth it. Especially if you want to have some BS7 Shenanigans with Seekers or other BS5 Base units. You could always cut him from the Current list, take the RoW and add more bodies to the squads.

 

My only real problem is the Mobility of the Templar. Unlike the Breachers and Phalanx Warders, their shooting only comes from Bolt Pistols and I'd never give them a Rhino. You probably have ideas on how to deal with this already so I wont go any further into it. If you ever expand the list to 2.5k - 3k range, give them a Land Raider Phobos and max them out at 8 men so you can shift the Primus Medicae here for a real hammer unit.

 

Luckily for you, you said there wont be any flyers around so you're free from having to take Contemptor-Mortis or other Anti-Air Solutions (I don't have that luxury since our NL player is all about Storm Eagles and Fire Raptors. He even has a Thunderhawk.). So, you're plan for the Contemptor is all fair and good. If you ever make a ZM list with units from this list, give the Contemptor Grav Guns. The rest, flamers and maybe a melta or two for any doors / Dreadnoughts.

 

Oh, almost forgot. Armored Ceramite on the Venator. Unless you know your opponent(s) wont be aiming melta at it, take it.

 

....S'all I've got... 

[Dusktiger]

Agreed on the Templars, that's one thing I've been thinking over as well. Apart from forming all shield models up and marching EVERYTHING up the board at once, they really need a land raider. I'm thinking in the end they'll be in the collection for ZM games.

 

Dropping both them and the terminators means I have more freedom in basic games for other units, such as culverin support squads and maybe some more tanks; I kinda like the look of the body lines the legion medusa and vindicator have. But would they fit with the army? It sometimes feels like I'm riding between an IF and IW army when I look at these things

[Dono1979]

In 2K games I feel that the Templars fit in with the Stone Gauntlet very well. You are often spending a lot of points on infantry due to the nature of the list and requirements and end up with very few points for assault vehicles. Tempalrs dont like to walk, anyone seeing them walking up the field will poor firepower on them and kill them dead very quickly.

 

I would drop the Master of Signal, he doesnt seem to be fitting in there at all and you already have a second HQ in the Primus Medicae. Along with the MAster of Signals I would drop the Templars, while I love the unit, they really need to have a list build around them or be slotted into a very mobile assaulty list.

 

This makes every infantry model in the list capable of benefitting from the Stone Gauntlet +1 Toughess bonus, so I would take that RoW. Even though you lose one of the good benefits from Alexis (his Teleporting), he is well and truly geared to be in a Stone Gauntlet list and is a perfect pal for the terminators, giving them an AP2 at Initiative striker for Challanges.

 

With the points you have shaved off the list, throw in a few Melta Bombs on the Sergeants for anti armour and then take stock.

 

You could add a small recon unit or Heavy Support unit (to take advantage of Tank Huner or just BS5 Heavy Bolters!). Bulk your terminators out, they are pretty low on head counts and will lose the Row benefit after a few wounds.

 

Or, something that rarely gets seen, is take some fortifications. An Aegis line for the stubborn.

[Slips]

I wouldn't worry about Basilisks and Medusa's, really, since every legion had them. It just so happens that the Iron Warriors had More.

 

Also, due to our special rules, we've got more of a Penchant for Marine-Portable anti-armor/fortification solutions over Vehiclular Bombardment like the Iron Warriors. Doesn't mean we never rained Phosphex Shells on some non-compliant / traitor scum!

 

Removing the Templar and Terminators, I'd figure out what you're most likely to face and how to counter it or fluff out the force (look, I'm a power gamer at heart so the lines between fluff and WAAC get quite blurred for me :p ).

 

Now, I'm assuming you'll just be facing Power Armor Armies, right?

 

If thats the case, consider the following (assuming that the freed up points are enough):

 

•Tactical Support Squad. 10 men, either Plasma Guns or Volkite Calivers. Plasma Guns will cot a LOT more than the Calivers (100 points to be exact :x) but let you deal with a Heavy infantry more efficiently. I'd give them a rhino in either case...

 

•Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (talon). You can take 1-3 and since theres no Flyer threat, gear them out to fulfill specific roles. You can give one a Heavy Conversion Beamer if the tables you play on are long enough though I'd probably stick with either Culverins, Plasma Cannons (you can take 2 of these on the same dread. Former and latter), Kheres Assault Cannon (you can take 2 of them too, but ehh on it since its not a Mortis :p ) or DCCW with your choice of in-hand gun. Plasma Blasters for a 2+ hunter, Heavy Flamers for Horde Killer, Graviton Guns for Armor Hunting (haywire) / Zone Mortalis or the Bolter to keep it cheap. I'd never take a melta gun in 30k due to the proliferation of Armored Ceramite.

 

•Legion Rapier Battery. Take 3. Heavy Bolters for Dakka, Lasdestroyers are iffy since Graviton Cannons can deal with Armor more efficiently due to Haywire or Quad Mortar for LOTS of pie plate goodness. If you take rapiers, your MoS might just have a role :D

 

•Veteran Tactical Support Squad. 10 Marines, 2 Heavy Bolters on Suspensor Webs (half range assault HBs if you need it to be). Give them Sniper for hilarity when you shoot 8 bolters + 6 Heavy Bolter Shots into a squad. Give them a Rhino Too. Can be given outflank if needed or Fearless to have a reliable objective holder.

 

•Legion Jetbike Squadron.(9)10 Men, EXPENSIVE!, but have a 2+ save, T5 and the ones with Heavy Bolters have BS5. 1 in 3 can take either a Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta or a Volkite Culverin. You can also give the Primus Medicae a Jetbike to ride with them. Great Hammer unit. Very Mobile and due to the Special Weapons options, tailored to specific roles. Now, you might think that "This doesn't seem Imperial Fists to me" but, I think it does. Also, JETBIKES!!

 

•Legion Whirlwind Scorpius. Kitwulfen made a pretty comprehensive post on why this tank is worth it. Look it up.

 

•Legion Heavy Support Squad. 10 men, Sarge with Augury Scanner. Volkite Culverins, Heavy Bolters (due to IF), Volkite Culverins and Autocannons are all solid Choices. Not. Cheap.

 

...you could also take a Land Raider Achilles or Spartan. But that would be mean.

 

•Legion Seeker Squad. 10 men, All Combi-Weapons (plasma preferably). They shoot Special Issue Ammunition at BS6 and if you want BS7 stuff the Master of Signal Here. If your in ZM with these guys or against a Horde army and they're within 9" of these guys, Rapid Fire Tempest Bolts and watch your opponent cringe hard when you place 20 nigh-unscattered blast markers over the squad. Think of them as a different kind of Sternguard.

 

Well, these are the best suggestions I've got on how to fill your list up with keeping them competitive. I would have said Destroyers but, while we do have a Shoulder Badge for them, they don't feel fluffy enough and to make them competitive is a LARGE points sink and potentially needs a reworking of the list.

 

All the Suggestions I've made were on a basis of they will be supporting elements to your Breachers and Warders. The only ones here that will be the Hammer of your List if taken are the Contemptors and Jetbikes. Everything else is an Anvil unit (as far as I see it).

 

I also tried to keep them as 'Imperial Fists' as I could but things like the Legion Basilisk and Medusa are still options to consider. They're just not my style :p

[Dusktiger]

In 2K games I feel that the Templars fit in with the Stone Gauntlet very well. You are often spending a lot of points on infantry due to the nature of the list and requirements and end up with very few points for assault vehicles. Templars dont like to walk, anyone seeing them walking up the field will pour firepower on them and kill them dead very quickly.

fair point, like i said, they feel more like they'll be there for display, and only see use in either bigger games with a LR, or a ZM game.

I would drop the Master of Signal, he doesnt seem to be fitting in there at all and you already have a second HQ in the Primus Medicae. Along with the Master of Signals I would drop the Templars, while I love the unit, they really need to have a list build around them or be slotted into a very mobile assaulty list.

This makes every infantry model in the list capable of benefitting from the Stone Gauntlet +1 Toughess bonus, so I would take that RoW. Even though you lose one of the good benefits from Alexis (his Teleporting), he is well and truly geared to be in a Stone Gauntlet list and is a perfect pal for the terminators, giving them an AP2 at Initiative striker for Challanges.

With the points you have shaved off the list, throw in a few Melta Bombs on the Sergeants for anti armour and then take stock.

You could add a small recon unit or Heavy Support unit (to take advantage of Tank Huner or just BS5 Heavy Bolters!). Bulk your terminators out, they are pretty low on head counts and will lose the Row benefit after a few wounds.

i'm also planning on expanding the terminators in time as well, as it was clear only 5 wouldnt cut it. enough bolter shots tossed at them, and 5 will drop fast. especially with any sizable tactical squads on the table in range. for now i just own the 5, along with another 5 in cataphractii that all have power swords and a plasma blaster in their squad. I would've given the shields to cataphractii to save points, but those tartarus shields were just too nice not to place them on the tartarus suits to match everything. sometimes the OCD makes the final choice on what models i build and how. pain in the butt some times, since i keep wanting to mix and match body parts in my red scorpions like the photos of the ultramarines 2nd company, but always wind up making each squad is one pure suit style each.

Or, something that rarely gets seen, is take some fortifications. An Aegis line for the stubborn.

something i've been debating a few times now as well. my hesitation in doing it is that every marine player here i play against uses them all. the. time. its gotten to the point im sick of seeing the terrain on the table unless its a part of a big army complex layout design for the table.

Removing the Templar and Terminators, I'd figure out what you're most likely to face and how to counter it or fluff out the force (look, I'm a power gamer at heart so the lines between fluff and WAAC get quite blurred for me ).

cant fault ya for that, haha. i'm kind of in between; i like the aesthetics of a themed list when its displayed on the table, but i also like to be able to win at least half of the games i play. im just not that focused on the wins that i need all my armies to be auto-win buttons cause then that's just boring to play and you stop thinking and just go through the motions.

Now, I'm assuming you'll just be facing Power Armor Armies, right?

yes, those that are playing 30k here all play power armour, and pretty well all of us took a look at the previews for book 4 and said "...don't need it."

If thats the case, consider the following (assuming that the freed up points are enough):

•Tactical Support Squad. 10 men, either Plasma Guns or Volkite Calivers. Plasma Guns will cot a LOT more than the Calivers (100 points to be exact :x) but let you deal with a Heavy infantry more efficiently. I'd give them a rhino in either case...

i've been debating making this very thing too. i had bought a pack of 10 calivers that i was going to use as the chargers on my breachers cause they look nicer than the charger's stubby looking appearance. but maybe i'll keep them for the support squad instead.

•Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (talon). You can take 1-3 and since there's no Flyer threat, gear them out to fulfill specific roles. You can give one a Heavy Conversion Beamer if the tables you play on are long enough though I'd probably stick with either Culverins, Plasma Cannons (you can take 2 of these on the same dread. Former and latter), Kheres Assault Cannon (you can take 2 of them too, but ehh on it since its not a Mortis ) or DCCW with your choice of in-hand gun. Plasma Blasters for a 2+ hunter, Heavy Flamers for Horde Killer, Graviton Guns for Armor Hunting (haywire) / Zone Mortalis or the Bolter to keep it cheap. I'd never take a melta gun in 30k due to the proliferation of Armored Ceramite.

i certainly like the idea of adding more volkite weapons into the list as it feels like a unique weapon that really helps establish this is a 30k era force and not a 40k one, letting myself and my opponents get a different experience out of the army. I didnt actually pickup on the fact there was a Culverin option on the contemptors now. I'll probably look into making one with those arms. Agreed ont he twin Kheres; that's the relic i have in my Red Scorpions with a missile launcher on top. pity they nerfed the 40k ones to just BS4. something that specializes in shooting only should have the higher BS. Speaking of the graviton gun options, are they really good in 30k? we've looked at them, but having the grav cannon variant on centurions in 40k as a comparison, they just seem like they would underperform. Overall, that gives me an idea for 2 contemptor chassis ideas, which i like; i enjoy the model, so having variants that would fit in well is a nice perk.

•Legion Rapier Battery. Take 3. Heavy Bolters for Dakka, Lasdestroyers are iffy since Graviton Cannons can deal with Armor more efficiently due to Haywire or Quad Mortar for LOTS of pie plate goodness. If you take rapiers, your MoS might just have a role

this is another unit i keep coming back and looking at because of the +1BS. It's definitely a unit that says "why not?" when keeping the legion's perks in mind.

•Veteran Tactical Support Squad. 10 Marines, 2 Heavy Bolters on Suspensor Webs (half range assault HBs if you need it to be). Give them Sniper for hilarity when you shoot 8 bolters + 6 Heavy Bolter Shots into a squad. Give them a Rhino Too. Can be given outflank if needed or Fearless to have a reliable objective holder.

•Legion Jetbike Squadron.(9)10 Men, EXPENSIVE!, but have a 2+ save, T5 and the ones with Heavy Bolters have BS5. 1 in 3 can take either a Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta or a Volkite Culverin. You can also give the Primus Medicae a Jetbike to ride with them. Great Hammer unit. Very Mobile and due to the Special Weapons options, tailored to specific roles. Now, you might think that "This doesn't seem Imperial Fists to me" but, I think it does. Also, JETBIKES!!

i prefer to use official models whenever possible, so because of that, i feel this squad would be too expensive to invest in; those models are just costly for a unit that you're gonna have so many in. To bad i cant find any alternate jetbike models to buy that i like the design of. they're either too big, or have some stupid design to the engines or main cowling. Not that phallic bikes are much better, mind you, they just look less ridiculous.

•Legion Whirlwind Scorpius. Kitwulfen made a pretty comprehensive post on why this tank is worth it. Look it up.

i've used one of these! actually, i took a pair in my red scorpions, before they added the relic of the armoury rule and it still had its initial experimental rules. its an awesome support gun option. and it's on my list for expanding past 2k, as 2001-3000 will be focusing on vehicles for the army.

•Legion Heavy Support Squad. 10 men, Sarge with Augury Scanner. Volkite Culverins, Heavy Bolters (due to IF), Volkite Culverins and Autocannons are all solid Choices. Not. Cheap.

a squad of the culverin is on my list of ideas as well, and it costs the same as the setup that so many here were initially screaming 30k was broken because of. they saw the 10 missiles with flakk option and were freaking out that unit would be way too OP. many nights were me explaining that you're not going to see people taking a 335pt squad to pull a trick that's only going to work a couple times til people either A) learn to alpha strike the unit to death right away, or B) just stop playing them until they drop the squad. though your right, a full squad is a hell of an investment. i could drop them to 7 models and then its 250. but then im buying 2 packs of culverins only to use 6. the scot in me is being cheap and saying that's a waste of money. i suppose i could drop it to 6 guys for 220...

...you could also take a Land Raider Achilles or Spartan. But that would be mean.

pfft. mean....Achilles-Alpha land raiders are purdy; purdy models are never mean...what're you talking about........ >.>

•Legion Seeker Squad. 10 men, All Combi-Weapons (plasma preferably). They shoot Special Issue Ammunition at BS6 and if you want BS7 stuff the Master of Signal Here. If your in ZM with these guys or against a Horde army and they're within 9" of these guys, Rapid Fire Tempest Bolts and watch your opponent cringe hard when you place 20 nigh-unscattered blast markers over the squad. Think of them as a different kind of Sternguard.

i keep forgetting about these guys to be honest. i knew they had alternate special ammo, but i wasnt aware they start at BS 5. i might have to seriously look into these as well.

Well, these are the best suggestions I've got on how to fill your list up with keeping them competitive. I would have said Destroyers but, while we do have a Shoulder Badge for them, they don't feel fluffy enough and to make them competitive is a LARGE points sink and potentially needs a reworking of the list.

All the Suggestions I've made were on a basis of they will be supporting elements to your Breachers and Warders. The only ones here that will be the Hammer of your List if taken are the Contemptors and Jetbikes. Everything else is an Anvil unit (as far as I see it).

I also tried to keep them as 'Imperial Fists' as I could but things like the Legion Basilisk and Medusa are still options to consider. They're just not my style