Wade Garrett Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Of course Fulgrim should be a lady. I mean, his Legion likes art and cares about its personal appearance, what else could they be but girls? "Also they're all gay! So might as well make them real women, amirite?" Jagghatai? How did you get in he... "Nothing can keep me from missing a chance to tell Fulgrim how gay he is! That makes me better than him, because I am heterosexual!" You know, neither Index Astartes: White Scars nor Scars mention you having any close female friends.... "Silence, civilized dog! You speak madness! Now I shall vault onto my jetbike in a very heterosexual manner and ride off into the sunset with my battle brothers. Who are all heterosexual. Which is what I am!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 but seriously, somewhat inspired by what wade said regarding primarchs being inspired by historical female figures and by what malcador claims to have recommended to the emperor (which empy took as a hilarious joke)...would this have been a good idea? would they be any different? or simply female embodiments of the same concepts? I'll leave what I believe to be inherent nature of gender out of this, and run off environment only: They would. They would have a hell of a harder time than men developing on chauvinistic planets with dated social systems that seem to dominate the Horus Heresy setting. I have a hard time believing that size and intellect alone would inspire and awaken a consciousness of equality in a society with an ancient standing tradition of gender marginalization. People fear what they do not understand. If they were flung to matriarchal planets? I'd like to see them land on planets where equality truly ruled personally, but those don't seem to float around the space of the setting. The Horus Heresy itself is a dated brainchild of an age in science fiction dominated by men -- an immortal man creates 20 (18?) men to go out and rule space. This topic will always end in locked threads. It's its nature. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Equality for women as a group, no. Special treatment for the woman who can kill you and your ten closest friends without breaking a sweat, yes. It isn't like goddesses of war and death aren't a thing (Morrigan, Athena, Hela, etc). Or that wonderful logic chains like the following never happen in real life. 1. Only men are strong enough mentally and physically to be knights of the Order. 2. Luther's foster daughter can out think and outfight every member of the Order 3. Ergo, Luther's daughter is a man and will be treated as such. Actually, how do we know that didn't happen in canon? http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHVskrQu4EN10TbvRF9SHo_Ukvx6ZKzTlJ0kbnw2cNn3ejcfRz Pictured: Lion'El Jonson, manliest grandmaster the Order ever had. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomanyprojects Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Just a note for those people actually wanting to try this - GW left the 2nd and 11th legion unnamed for a specific purpose - to provide a Blank slate upon which any image can be made. If we are talking about a brotherhood of Psykers, Warlords, Priests, Bezerkers, un-noticed twins and people with wings I see no reason to believe that the emperor would not have experimented with Female Primarchs and Space Marines. Doesn't seem far fetched at all to me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Lets steer clear of the could they have been/risen to position like the primarchs did? And stick to the if they had what/who would have inspired their background. That way there is no need for the thread to be locked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 "Could they have risen to power?" isn't even a question. Unless you believe that, after a killing spree that numbered in the millions, when Katherine Curze stepped out of the shadows to proclaim herself ruler of Nostromo, everyone would have responded with a collective "You? You're just a woman. Go back in the kitchen and make all of us sandwiches!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 "Could they have risen to power?" isn't even a question. Unless you believe that, after a killing spree that numbered in the millions, when Katherine Curze stepped out of the shadows to proclaim herself ruler of Nostromo, everyone would have responded with a collective "You? You're just a woman. Go back in the kitchen and make all of us sandwiches!" Can you stop picking fault with my words and just get back on topic like I was trying to suggest, maybe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Wade. Enough with the childish and rather tasteless jokes. Please. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 This train is perilously close to running off the rails. This is the one and only warning. http://i.imgur.com/1GHj3IG.jpg?1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Equality for women as a group, no. Special treatment for the woman who can kill you and your ten closest friends without breaking a sweat, yes. It isn't like goddesses of war and death aren't a thing (Morrigan, Athena, Hela, etc). Or that wonderful logic chains like the following never happen in real life. 1. Only men are strong enough mentally and physically to be knights of the Order. 2. Luther's foster daughter can out think and outfight every member of the Order 3. Ergo, Luther's daughter is a man and will be treated as such. Actually, how do we know that didn't happen in canon? http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHVskrQu4EN10TbvRF9SHo_Ukvx6ZKzTlJ0kbnw2cNn3ejcfRz Pictured: Lion'El Jonson, manliest grandmaster the Order ever had. Where I see it differently is my faith in humanity structured in a backwards way of thinking: 1. Only men are strong enough mentally and physically to be knights of the Order. 2. Luther's foster daughter can out think and outfight every member of the Order 3. Ergo, Luther's daughter is a monster and will be put to the sword. To keep it on rails relevant to the strict topic, the amount of bloodshed and slaughter it would take to topple and rise to the top of a male dominated society cemented in their ways could have potentially profound ramifications on the psyche of the female primarch, so much so that an immortal man arriving with a legion of tens of thousands of men (or does the OP propose the legion would be women?) essentially forcing her to join their crusade might be too much. Resent, anger, hate, could all lead to a quicker fall to Chaos? Maybe that's why the Big E created men as primarchs to conquer backwards worlds where in many cases they had devolved into might makes right societies where evolutionary things like hunter/gatherer come back into play for the worse? Spit balling here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Throughout history, women in male-dominated societies have murdered, schemed and, yes, slept their way to the top of the heap and then ruled. Cleopatra. Bouddica. Dido. Need I go on? Anyway. Female primarchs? I'll just leave this here... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/IK%20and%2040K/Femarchs_zpsa74ec5b0.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I do think the whys and wherefores of a female Primarch landing on the canon Primarch homeworlds is relevant to the topic, though. Off the top of my head, Prospero was a psykerocracy, so as long as girl Magnus has mind powers she would be fine. The Necromancer of Barbarus took the infant Mortarion as an heir because the child could withstand the toxic atmosphere, and the regular people hated and feared male Mortarion because he looked like their overlords. So girl Mort wouldn't face any more issues than the XlV Primarch did in canon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Heinrich Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 These threads... http://www.vhlforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Game-of-Thrones-confused-gif.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Throughout history, women in male-dominated societies have murdered, schemed and, yes, slept their way to the top of the heap and then ruled. Cleopatra. Bouddica. Dido. Need I go on? I think it's important to note that those women weren't superior transhumans with extreme strength and intelligence. That's the wild card that really spits in the face of a male dominated society, and I don't think it makes for a smoother take over IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Aaaaand, like Pontius Pilate, I wash my hands of this ordeal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBA Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Aaaaand, like Pontius Pilate, I wash my hands of this ordeal. Suggests thread is Jesus... Thread will be crucified... Topic will be resurrected in coming days? *mind implodes* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 In all seriousness - The twentieth female Primarch should be Mata Hari, known for espionage and (rumoured, some say it was never confirmed that she was) for being a double agent. Not sure whether she'd be Alpharius or Omegon though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think its a mistake to associate a gender to the primarchs in general. These are bio engineered monsters bred for war. They were made to resemble humans in order better lead and inspire humanity. I would compare the primarchs to angels, androgynous beings who serve a greater master. The comparison is apt I feel seeing as the heresy is based on the many iterations of wars in heaven from different cultures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think its a mistake to associate a gender to the primarchs in general. These are bio engineered monsters bred for war. They were made to resemble humans in order better lead and inspire humanity. I would compare the primarchs to angels, androgynous beings who serve a greater master. The comparison is apt I feel seeing as the heresy is based on the many iterations of wars in heaven from different cultures. This Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Thirst Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 9th: fun fact - type 'angel' into google image, and most of the images are feminine. Add 'warrior' and you still end up with plenty of both sides. Even the name, Sanguinius, isn't inherently masculine. Recant your statement and repent Brother, lest you feel the kiss of my blade at your neck... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Locking this up for review. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299220-female-primarchs/page/2/#findComment-3861840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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