Help me to stop Flailing

[Frostmourne]

Evening,

As some of you may know, ish, maybe. I am a big 30k fantatic. And was just about to embark on a 30k Legion project to be part of a 6 month 40k campaign next year, BUT SOMEONE HAS ALREADY DONE AND BOUGHT AN IMPERIAL FIST ARMY. SO FECK IT.

So, i am going with my Sturdy Back up plan, Mechanicum.

Now i'll be honest i dont know much about the fluff, all i know is i love the models, and i love the symbiotic relationship with the Legions.

Now i have done about, seriously, 8 hours of snooping on this branch of the forum and i am no a little more on board with the rules.

Im still getting so confused that sometimes i tab back into WoW just to stop thinking about things.

But i have a few questions that I would like some advice on.. If thats not too much trouble?

One.
Thahgmata, is that the generally used list? I see that there was 3, but no one uses the one from betrayal its basically be ret conned out. But, whats the downside?
 

Two

Also, My HQ's are getting me confused, all i want is an invincible guy to tinker and buff my robots, thats all i want.

Three
Is there a way to use Legion Artilery with any list, or do i have to Ally in some? And if i do, is that cool?

Four.
I want a Knight house, for sure, but im getting confused Lore wise how they fit. Is it like, some Forgeworld out there in he inky Blackness has a Knight World near it, then they buddy up for S's and G;s?

Five,
Is a list without Techthralls going to lose? Becuase literally just want to use Robots.

Six
Pick up Sticks

Seven
In terms of Paint Scheme, for instance, if i said "This Mechanicum force follows my.. Say Imperial Fists, lets just pick a legion at random here, ish, around the Galaxy, do they have some sort of Yellow Shoulder Pad or something in honour of travelling with the Sons of Dorn, or how does it work? Or dont they? And just stay as normal Paint Scheme?

Eight
Are there are any BAD unit choices for Mechanicum? Someone Said Vorax on another thread, but is this true, Are Thanatars still good?


Sorry for the long list, and newb questions, im just getting myself in a tiddle and the Queue on WoW is like 1500 and im going to cry.

[Cactus]

Bear in mind that I haven't yet played a 30k game so all my answers are theoryhammer and hearsay.

 

One, yes I believe the Taghmata army list is where it's at. The only reason to use the more limited Legio Cybernetica list in Massacre is if you want to fill your compulsory troop slots with castellax robots. Everybody seems to recommend the lorica thallax who can be compulsory troops then you take castellax as well and might as well be using the Taghmata list.

 

Two, you want the Magos Dominus. He's the only HQ with the cybertheurgy rule to buff the robots.

 

Three, it's not Legion artillery but the Taghmata can take a minotaur artillery tank as a Lord of War.

 

... skip a few...

 

Seven, it's entirely up to you. Extermination has an illustration of a castellax that's bonded to the Legio Gryphonicus and bears their heraldry but it's certainly not mandatory.

[Dark Bjoern]

I play mechanicum.

 

1) i use the Thagmata list. It gaves me access to all the nice options you don't have with the other lists.

 

2) most the time i use only Thallax cohorts they don't need a magos to buff them. I play an extremly expensive Archmagos prime (over 300 points) and he had not disappoint me so far.

 

3) legion artillery is only aviable as allies. But be hornest you will not need them. The Thagmata have so many good options that i don't wanna use allies.

 

4) the mechanicum has it's onw knight houses, like House Raven, House Krast or the Knights of Taranis. With the basic FOC you can use one knight, but with the Onslaught FOC you can use up to two Lords of War

 

5) i think Tech Tralls are not worth being taken. They are worse then Chaos Cultists. I always play without them.

 

6) the Thallax and Castellax are extremly resistable. In my last match i lead my five Castellax straight into the mid and let them loose. They got fire from all sides and lost only 2 wounds in five rounds. In return they killed an Eldar Avatar, 5 Wraith Guards, 1 Wave Serpent, 5 Scourges with Haemunculus and 8 Cabalite Warriors. I'm more then pleased with their performance

 

7) it's not uncommon for a Thagmata, if they're working together with a certain legion, to adopt the legion's heraldic into their own. Sometimes it is only a half and half symbol, sometimes they adopt the color

 

8) so far i only see the thralls as a "bad" choise but i had not tried them so far. The Thanatar is absolutly a must have. Absolutly badass. He's the most feared unit by all of my opponents so far.

[Frostmourne]

Thanks for your replies guys :)

 

Definitely answered a few questions!

 

So, would two Thantars be a bit overkill?

[Slips]

Look, In our 4k HH campaign, our mechanicum player has 2 Thanatars and 4 Knights. I don't think 2 thanatars on their own will be much of a problem since you could up the pain factor a hundredfold easily if you wanted to

GOOD THING IM BRINGING 7 CHAIN FISTS AND A LAND RAIDER ACHILLES WITH MULTI MELTAS.

Also, whats not to love about a (5?)7" AP2 Blast from the Plasma Mortar? Anyone who can't deal with it isn't made for 30k I say! Also, they look damn cool...

[Frostmourne]

Lad.

 

I'm going to make a list.

 

Me Slipstream!! Me. Build a list! Madness.

[Battybattybats]

 

Four.

I want a Knight house, for sure, but im getting confused Lore wise how they fit. Is it like, some Forgeworld out there in he inky Blackness has a Knight World near it, then they buddy up for S's and G;s?

 

 

The info from the Imperial Knight Codex and especially the Imperial Knight Companion is that early in humanities spread to space the pre-Mechanicus sent out lots of one-way colonists. The ships were built to be pulled apart and become bases: the Knights Keeps, the Knights were designed for protection from indigenous life and for some of the initial work (the chainsword being good for clearfelling etc). Knight control systems have subtle brainwashing built in (with the exception of Mars-based House Taranis) and they ensured the pilots would be protective conservative and especially fiercely loyal, they became the Nobles.

 

Old night stuffed up most places but Knight worlds were extra-resistant to it, having less high-tech than later colonies, being less psyker-tolerant too, and it says they are chaos-resistant! Hence this conservatism protected them as did having huge giant mecha. So a fair few survived through it.

 

Then when warp travel became reliable thanks to getting Navigator Houses given to the Mechanicum in the pact with the Emperor the Mechanicum went looking for their old Knight colonies, and when they found survivors who got through Old Night they built forgeworlds next door. Trading replacement Knights, parts and training locals as Sacristans (and inducted in the Omnissian cult) to service them in exchange for either foodstuffs or minerals from the Knight world as well as fighting forces. So many Forgeworlds were founded specifically to be symbiotic with a Knight World and all Knight Worlds rely on Forgeworlds and the Mechanicum even if Imperial-aligned.

 

Some Knights embraced the Mechanicum easily-ish recognising their origins in them or being wowed by their knowledge of the Knights tech (many had detiorated capacity to maintain knights, repairs resulting in steampunk-ish ones with gunpowder cannon crews instead of the battlecannon and other low-tech repairs are mentioned), but others took a lot of gentle coaxing or pressure and some remained much more independent, and some the Emperors representatives got to first and got them to sign pacts of alliance and so some Knights are imperial aligned.

 

Of course Horus got to some first too and from what i've heard about what we'll hear in the next Forgeworld book that includes Heresy-era Knight lists and background some were be bound by their loyalty to him specifically, siding with him in the early stage of the rebellion. But according to the codex the chaos-ressistance of the Knight-brainwashing meant only 2 Houses turned to Chaos, House Devine during the Heresy and in M37 House Drakon who joined the Apostles of the Blind King (whose forces are described as Rogue Techpriests!) and who after the Blind Kings defeat show up again thousands of years later at the head of a Daemon Engine army built by the Dark Mechanicum.

 

So that's why you have Mechanicus and Imperial Knights and why you could have some few Knights siding at first with Horus.

Also at least one Knight World ruled by (beastman-slaughtering) House Cadmus was pressured into allegiance to the Mechanicus and then broke away again becoming imperial-aligned, they are covered in the Imperial Knight Companion and the novel Knights of the Imperium by Graham McNeil includes the Mechanicus response to them leaving.

 

It's important to remember, each Knight world is legally independent, not vassal subjects of the Imperium! Imperial-alligned Knights are ones that have sworn an alliance with the Imperium, Mechanicum aligned-knights likewise. So on a Knight World an Inquisitor or Space Marine trying to bark orders has precisely the authority of a mouldy turnip, it's the Nobles of the Knight Houses that hold such power and cooperate with the Imperium based on the specifics of their alliance and their unique culture. The Mechanicus have a teeny bit more sway in that the Knights are reliant on them, but still a Forgeworlds Arch-Magos used to total feudal power has to deal with Mechanicus-aligned Knights not as underlings but allies, allies with a stubborn streak literally built into them.

 

So your Knights can be Mechanicum aligned and like traitor/chaos-hating House Krast embracing the religious side of the Omnissian cult themselves praying to the Emperor as the Omnissiah (my own House Cydonia i went a step further making all the prospective Knights actually trained as basic techpriests), or can be loyal but fiercely independent with their own traditions, or grudging allies forced by need or coercive pressure to align to the Mechanicum.

 

I hope that covers your question thoroughly but if you need more info or clarification let me know.

[Huggtand]

Great advice!
I love the Mecanicum fluff and models and since it’s going to be a while until FW Wolves is going to be released I´m starting with a small Mechanicum force.

The thing I mostly wonder about is how you best should equip the HQ. Any advice is welcome.

2) most the time i use only Thallax cohorts they don't need a magos to buff them. I play an extremly expensive Archmagos prime (over 300 points) and he had not disappoint me so far.

If you don’t mind Dark Bjoern, what is the load out on your magos?

[Dark Bjoern]

No problem

 

Magos Prime (300pts)

Abeyant

Archmagos Prime

Cortex Controller

Cyber-familiar

Djinn-skein

Machinator Array

Myrmidax

2x Phased Plasma-fusil

 

Sometime i give him also a Paragon Blade

Together with 6 Myrmidon Secutor in a Triaros he is absolut badass.

 

You should check out my last batrep:

[ulr]http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295233-thagmata-mourndark-vs-orks/[/ulr]

[Huggtand]

Thanks

 

I really enjoyed that Battle Report and your army is actually one of the reasons I took the decision to go for 30k Mechanicum. You have done an amazing work on those miniz.

 

Do Mechanicum have any good AA except from taking flyers oneself?

[Dark Bjoern]

That's the only drawback. No. I will add a Voss Pattern Lightning to my force.

[Chronozoah]

I'm afraid not. Only the Thallaxii upgraded with the Icarian augment have access to Skyfire (if memory serves), and to achieve that the relevant unit must remain stationary. Should you wish to fight flyer with flyer, you are able to field the Avenger Strike Fighter, Lightning Strike Fighter or the Storm Eagle Assault Gunship.

[Tiger9gamer]

I have to ask as long as the questions are being asked: How are the plain Castellex? are they worth their points in a legion or Solar auxillia list?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I have to ask as long as the questions are being asked: How are the plain Castellex? are they worth their points in a legion or Solar auxillia list?

 

 

They're fine. I like swapping the mauler for darkfire cannon, as it gives them longer range, AP2, Blind and Lance. Castellax are strong as hell man, both Legion and Auxilia lists want them. 

[Battybattybats]

I have to ask as long as the questions are being asked: How are the plain Castellex? are they worth their points in a legion or Solar auxillia list?

Some have said that they are borderline OP, and in small points games downright OP.

I've only put 1 on the field (with the flamer upgrade) on 3 occassions, so i'm no expert myself but after the first it became one of their priority targets after the Techpriest Auxilia who can repair it.