Quixus Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What happens if an IC psyker casts prescience on the unit he is currently attached to. Does he get the rerolls as well? Does that include close combat?On a related note, where is the duration of a blessing noted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyuzanriu Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When an IC joins a unit he becomes part of that unit. If that unit has the ability to reroll then he also gets it. No reason he wouldn't since it a unit-wide thing and not wargear or a special rule that only some models in the unit have. EDIT: For your second question look in your BRB under the psychic phase. It explains all the power types. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3863882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The attached character(s) is (are) considered to be part of the unit, so he'll (they'll) benefit from the power just like the rest of the unit. Prescience allows the affected unit to re-roll all failed rolls to hit, regardless of what phase those rolls are made in, until the power expires. You want the Psychic Phase section, which includes the list of psychic power types and their basic rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3863884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Thanks guys, I somehow remembered that is was not clear whether ICs are part of the unint in the assault phase. Must have been a (misremembered) bit from previous editions. Found the duration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3863888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 /Devils Advocate Are Psychic Powers 'special rules'? Are 'special rules' and how that specific category of abilites interacts with ICs *only* applicable to the finite list provided in the BRB? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 In this case the Character is part of the unit (as per the Joining and Leaving a Unit section of the IC special rule). Prescience states that the target unit (which the character, as stated above, is a part of) may re-roll failed rolls to hit. It's not a matter of a special rule being shared, but an in-game effect (brought on by a psychic power) that affects the entire unit (which includes the character). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Forgive me if I'm wrong, but don't unit 'special rules' need to state they apply to any attached ICs for the ICs to benefit? Prescience doesn't state it applies to any attached ICs. If it's classed as a 'special rule', then it sholdn't pass over to the IC. Is a Psychic Power a 'special rule'? Or rather, what are 'special rules' (in context of ICs). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Special rules are those rules that are in the special rule section of the rulebook. Prescience does not confer such a rule, it only allows rerolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Are they the *only* 'special rules' in the game? And no rules from other sources (be they other Phases, or Codexes) can be classed as 'special rules' and as such have no inherant differences when effecting ICs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864608 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 What we have is a psychic power that affects a unit. We are told by the Independent Character rule that should such a character join a unit they are considered to be part of that unit. Putting away devil's advocate and trying to break the system, what is the simplest interpretation? IMO, it's that the IC is affected just like the rest of the unit that he/she/it is a part of. It's the interpretation best backed up by the rules as they are written, it is also the simplest. There are rules for the different types of Psychic Powers, they are advanced rules (as per the Basic vs Advanced box on page 13) however nowhere are they referred to as "special rules" (which are themselves defined on pages 156 to 174 of the BWB and in the relevant "special rules" sections / unit entries found in the codices), instead they are listed under their own "psychic powers" section of the BWB. Devil's advocate can be useful, but only when it's used to bring a discussion closer to a consensus. Using it to unnecessarily prolong a discussion isn't really helpful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Devils Advocate off, I think we can agree that the *effect* of a power is an 'ongoing effect'. But what happens when said 'ongoing effect' is a special rule that doesn't explicitly state it shares between IC and unit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam13n Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 If we head into that tangent, well it's entirely covered by the Special Rules section of the Independent Character special rule. We're told that unless specified such "Special Rules" are not "shared" between Characters and Units and vice-versa. Though that does drift us off the topic of Prescience (blessings) and attached Characters somewhat, as while Psychic Powers have rules, they aren't "Special Rules" as defined by the rulebook, so it's not really pertinent to the topic at hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Psychic Powers do gift special rules. Telepathy and Shrouding gives the Shrouded special rule (and applies it to all friends, getting round the IC clause that way), Biomancy gives Smash. A better example is Biomancy again with Endurance. Endurance gives the target unit Eternal Warrior, Feel no Pain and Relentless. Ic the casting Psyker is part of that unit, for all rules purposes, and Endurance isn't a Special Rule, but rather an 'ongoing effect', shouldn't the Psyker also benefit from all three special rules? The Psyker was part of the unit when it was effected by the beneficial effect. Even though the beneficial effect (the Endurance Psychic Power) as a consequence gifts three Special Rules (that wouldn't normally cross over to an attached IC). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 There is no conflict with Endurance as far as I can see. The special rules are bestowed upon "every model in the unit". So an IC (as part of the unit) gets the special rules himself. It is not a case where the special rule would have to be extended to the IC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Devils Advocate off, I think we can agree that the *effect* of a power is an 'ongoing effect'. But what happens when said 'ongoing effect' is a special rule that doesn't explicitly state it shares between IC and unit? The IC was part of the unit when it was applied, so the power would apply. Other Special Rules, such as Hatred, that a unit might have innate to it, would not apply because the IC is not with the unit when it "acquired" them at purchase. I really don't see the problem short of seeking one out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/299345-prescience-and-ics/#findComment-3864841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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